onewilyfool Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know Rar had put some interesting comments about early Bozeman guitar quality, but I can't find that link. Any comments/advice/history/reviews about those early Bozeman efforts? Thanks...Wily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know Rar had put some interesting comments about early Bozeman guitar quality, but I can't find that link. Any comments/advice/history/reviews about those early Bozeman efforts? Thanks...Wily Hopefully Hogeye will chime in with some comments. I can only speak from the limited experience I've had with "early" Bozeman production, which I would take to mean sort of 1989 and into 1990 guitars. I've owned a couple of those, and they were both really good. They were finished in a different finish, "Fullerplast" I think it was called. The one was/is a 1989 J-100, seen here in 1999 being held near its 10th birthday by Ren Ferguson: That guitar I sold after a/b'ing it extensively with a 2001 SJ-200 for tone; eventually the J-100 "lost" and I sold ii. It lived somewhere in the midwest for a spell, then moved to Alaska, and now I am told it lives in -- of all places -- Kalamazoo. The other one was a J-185 that I wish I still had, a 1990, I believe, long scale guitar. Nice. ksdaddy has/had an '89 J-200 that he raves about from time to time, and at least a few others here have '89s and '90s too. The 89 maple guitars were often if not all made with the sycamore/Euro maple wood, which has a sort of distinct look. Don't know that I would attribute tonal differences exclusively to the wood, but they do seem to have a 'cachet' if I can call it that. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This is 2nd hand (maybe Fred can back me up) but based on comments on the RMAGA forum it went like this: 89-91, good but feeling their way, 92, steller. A step back, 93-95(something about the plant manager), 96 and forward, good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfender Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have to say that my 1990 J-200 shows a level of fit and finish on the inside not seen on new Gibson's. Someone really cared about quality when mine was built. Its sycamore back and sides rather than Eastern maple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 While not quite in the 89-90 envelope, I did own a 1991 J-30 for many years, which I purchased new. All in all it was a very solid guitar. The only problems I had with it were a tuning machine that disintegrated and the finish along the edge of the fretboard had chipped away in a few spot. Both were easily fixed and presented no additional problems. The one thing that I did hear numerous times about the early Bozeman guitars (and this might predate the Bozeman era) was the use of a double dovetail, or some such thing that they apparently stopped using sometime after my '91 J-30 was produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsPart2 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have owned the following Bozeman guitars: 1994 Gospel 2008 J45 Custom Currently: 2009 Country Western and 2011 Koa Bird All have been flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 All I know is that the best J-200 to come out of Bozeman I have ever played was a late 1980s guitar. And I apparently ain't the only one who thinks it. That guitar has earned quite a rep and there is a fairly long list of guys who want to buy it if the owner ever decides to sell. The worst Bozeman Gibson I ever played was my wife's 1994 J-100XTRA. Just a blah sounding guitar and my old J-200 could drown it out without a whole lotta effort. Right after we got married she sold her J-100 and claimed my J-200 as her own. But how could you not love a woman like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 While not quite in the 89-90 envelope, I did own a 1991 J-30 for many years, which I purchased new. All in all it was a very solid guitar. The only problems I had with it were a tuning machine that disintegrated and the finish along the edge of the fretboard had chipped away in a few spot. Both were easily fixed and presented no additional problems. The one thing that I did hear numerous times about the early Bozeman guitars (and this might predate the Bozeman era) was the use of a double dovetail, or some such thing that they apparently stopped using sometime after my '91 J-30 was produced. It wasn't a double Dovetail joint. Gibson called it a "Paddle Cut". The "Paddle Cut" was an extension of the Dovetail that supported the top. It was a neck block that had an extension that went from the Dovetail out toward the sound hole. The extension and the neck block were one piece of wood. This extension was designed to hold the fretboard up as it traveled across the top. This kept the fretboard from sinking if the top was dried out and dropped. It eliminated the dreaded 14th fret hump. The "Paddle Cut" was extreemly difficult to neck fit and it was a very time consuming process. It was soon dropped in favor of the regular Dovetail. I have a '91 guitar with this feature and I consider it to be one of the finest guitars Gibson has produced. They are very easy to spot. Just look in the sound hole toward the neck block. You will see or feel an extension that ends very near to the sound hole. I will try to post some photos when I get home. Maybe toward the end of the week. I believe that the early 91's were the last to see this very cool feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have to say that my 1990 J-200 shows a level of fit and finish on the inside not seen on new Gibson's. Someone really cared about quality when mine was built. Its sycamore back and sides rather than Eastern maple. This is exactly what a J-200 should look like. Stunning. Sycamore for sure and probably a Fullerplast finish. I would bet it is constructed with the "Paddle Cut" dovetail. Reach in the soundhole with your finger toward the neck and you can feel or see the dovetail extension. See a later post in this thread for an explanation of the "Paddle Cut". The two band bridge is just what you would expect to see on a fine crafted J-200. Congrats on an amazing guitar. One of the best I've seen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think the earlier Models were better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseguy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I know Rar had put some interesting comments about early Bozeman guitar quality, but I can't find that link. Any comments/advice/history/reviews about those early Bozeman efforts? Thanks...Wily Hi Onewiley I fortunately own a 93 Bozeman reissue Epi Excellente-No.7 of 23 made. Great looking & soundig guitar. The finish and workmanship is excellent. Regards, Moose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfender Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 This is exactly what a J-200 should look like. Stunning. Sycamore for sure and probably a Fullerplast finish. I would bet it is constructed with the "Paddle Cut" dovetail. Reach in the soundhole with your finger toward the neck and you can feel or see the dovetail extension. See a later post in this thread for an explanation of the "Paddle Cut". The two band bridge is just what you would expect to see on a fine crafted J-200. Congrats on an amazing guitar. One of the best I've seen.. Yeah, it has the paddle cut neck block. It has always been my dream guitar since I was a kid. It still amazes me that I own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have owned the following Bozeman guitars: 1994 Gospel 2008 J45 Custom Currently: 2009 Country Western and 2011 Koa Bird All have been flawless. Nice looking guitars ,DogsPart2, But....I really wish that you had taken the 'pacifiers' out of their mouth before photographing... That kind of ****....really bugs me.... Nice chair fabric ,by the way. Retro,.... like me... RRod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfender Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 KSdaddy had a really great story about the Sycamore/European Maple bought for these early Bozeman J-200. I will have to try to dug it up. Edit: This is an old KSdaddy quote: In the 70s Gibson had a large supply of European Maple, sometimes called Sycamore. They used them on some acoustics, the MK53, maybe others. When Kalamazoo closed, the wood was shipped to Nashville and used on some acoustics there as well. At some point early in the Bozeman era the maple was shipped there for use on the J200s (maybe others, standard disclaimer here). That wood has travelled a lot. Bozeman used the Euro Maple until it ran out, which was sometime in the early 90s. It is very plain, almost no figure at all, but I've been told it is slightly softer, very consistent in hardness, density, and just a nice wood to work with. When they ran out, they went to Eastern Maple, which often has much more figure (standard disclaimer again). One person, who has been with Bozeman since 1988, told me he didn't believe there was any tone difference between the two types of maple. I certainly can't refute that, but there are those out there who say the tone of the early Bozemans with Euro Maple have a nicer tone, softer and not as brassy. If true (big if), then it comes down to a matter of personal preference. I can tell you I sought (and bought) an '89 J200 based on this legend or hype and I am very happy with it. Granted I didn't have the luxury of going onto a room full of them to compare, but I have since played other J200s and prefer mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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