Color and word of Gibson label ?

[gotomsdos]

I'm puzzled of 2 things

1, label color of Gibson acoustic

said that ordinary guitars have white while custom ones have orange color

But why does J45 Custom have white ?

2, the word of orange label

Some of custom ones have the word "Gibson custom shop" while others of them have the same word "guaranteed" just as non-custom ones.

why ？

[Rockanrolla]

This has been discussed a few times here.

This is from Bob R (Rar)

 

Right now, Standard models get white labels, and everything else -- TVs, limited editions, customs, etc. -- get orange labels (or no label, in the case of Legends and a few limited editions that are meant to be more historically accurate reproductions of label-less old Gibsons).

 

There are, no doubt, exceptions to this general rule, because it's Gibson.

 

-- Bob R

 

Heres the thread link too http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/27498-red-or-white/page__p__379188__hl__labels__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=379188

[fortyearspickn]

MSDOS, I am in awe of the number of questions you have. You might consider making a reservation for the annual GF pilgrimage to Bozeman coming up in a few months.

[sboiir]

This has been discussed a few times here.

This is from Bob R (Rar)

 

Right now, Standard models get white labels, and everything else -- TVs, limited editions, customs, etc. -- get orange labels (or no label, in the case of Legends and a few limited editions that are meant to be more historically accurate reproductions of label-less old Gibsons).

 

There are, no doubt, exceptions to this general rule, because it's Gibson.

 

-- Bob R

 

Heres the thread link too http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/27498-red-or-white/page__p__379188__hl__labels__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=379188

 

Are you saying....every Gibson with an orange label is a TVs, limited editions, customs, etc ? I see lots of orange labels. That's news to me. Something every day

[gotomsdos]

1st puzzle solved, but the second ?

[ParlourMan]

1st puzzle solved, but the second ?

 

There's a difference between a model designated as a 'custom' version and a guitar from the custom-shop. Custom appointments is not the same as a 'custom shop build'.

[Markini]

That's interesting. I have 2003 Hummingbird with an orange label. The binding on the neck comes over the end of each fret. I have 2010 Hummingbird with a white label. The binding on the neck does not cover the ends of the frets. Both cost the same retail, in fact the 2010 is more because it has internal fishman pickup.

 

 

 

Both have that mellow Hummer sound, both equal in tone, looks and playability. But technically the 2003 is a custom, the 2010 is not. Go figure.

[modoc_333]

the white label is a more recent thing. i think it 2003 they all had orange. white would have started somewhere around 2005 i believe

[BigKahune]

.

 

Gibson - always swinging between one thing or another. And then just when you think you've got them figured out, they go and swing a different way. . B)

 

 

.

[Gibson101]

I've got three 06's and they have orange labels. I personally like the look of the orange labels better. Only the SJ-300 says custom on the label. An '06 J-185 I sold also had the orange label.

[gotomsdos]

There's a difference between a model designated as a 'custom' version and a guitar from the custom-shop. Custom appointments is not the same as a 'custom shop build'.

Thank you ParlourMan ! You got me the point..

Do you mean that a 'custom' version doesn't come from Custom Shop ?

What's the difference between 'custom' version guitars and guitars with label saying "Custom Shop" ?

[modoc_333]

I've got three 06's and they have orange labels. I personally like the look of the orange labels better. Only the SJ-300 says custom on the label. An '06 J-185 I sold also had the orange label.

 

 

 

were all of these orange labels on standards? I had a 2006 SJ and it had a white label. perhaps THIS is the transition year. ??????

[Mojorule]

Just to throw a classic Gibson-shaped spanner into the works, and as PM will no doubt corroborate, the Woody Guthrie SJ still comes with an orange label (or did last year), and has not been a Custom-shop guitar in any sense for some years now. It is VOS though.

[ParlourMan]

Just to throw a classic Gibson-shaped spanner into the works, and as PM will no doubt corroborate, the Woody Guthrie SJ still comes with an orange label (or did last year), and has not been a Custom-shop guitar in any sense for some years now. It is VOS though.

 

Beat me to it, I was actually thinking about adding this to the jumble..... Indeed the woody is a VOS finish, it also has the orange label... good point mojo

[Gibson101]

were all of these orange labels on standards? I had a 2006 SJ and it had a white label. perhaps THIS is the transition year. ??????

2006 Robert Johnson L-1, orange label

2006 J-185, orange label (sold)

2006 SJ-300, orange label with "custom" on label

 

I also have a 2005 J-45 Rosewood with an orange label.

[rar]

I had a 2006 SJ and it had a white label.

Excellent data point! So the best conjecture seems to be that Gibson went from all-orange to a mix of orange and white some time in 2006, meaning that the change predated the introduction of the (orange-labelled) TV and (white-labelled) MC lines, which I believe was in 2007. It would be interesting to know exactly which models got white labels in 2006. (Well, as interesting as answers to these label color questions get -- which isn't really all that interesting.)

 

Was OP's original question #2 ever answered? Here's my wild guess: The stack of labels that say "Custom Shop" rather than "Guaranteed" in the fine print lives (or lived) in the Custom/Art Shop (or whatever it's being called this week) instead of by the typewriter with the rest of the labels. If memory serves -- which it might very well not! -- the sign on the typewriter just talks about whether to use a white and an orange label, not distinguishing between two flavors of orange labels. So the Custom Shop label might mean that Ren or Val or Jason grabbed a label in the shop and typed it up. If this is right, use of that label probably correlates positively with just how "custom" the guitar is.

 

-- Bob R

[dchristo]

my 2011 J 45 TV has a orange label

2011 J 200 has a white label

[gotomsdos]

Thank you all for the concerns..

Now I'm guessing...I wonder if the guitars with "Custom Shop" label (such 1942 legend J45)are made more in the Custom Shop than ones with vintage style (such J45 TV) while ones with white label are made just through the machine line (such as J45 STD and J45 custom rosewood). As to J45 custom rosewood, It may be made just through machine line even thought it's titled "custom". Only my guess.

[rar]

Thank you all for the concerns..

Now I'm guessing...I wonder if the guitars with "Custom Shop" label (such 1942 legend J45)are made more in the Custom Shop than ones with vintage style (such J45 TV) while ones with white label are made just through the machine line (such as J45 STD and J45 custom rosewood). As to J45 custom rosewood, It may be made just through machine line even thought it's titled "custom". Only my guess.

You're mostly right. As mentioned before, the word "custom" is being used in two different senses. In "J-45 Custom Rosewood", "Custom" is a Gibson USA term used as part of the model name when the model is a little fancier. E..g., the Les Paul Custom is a fancier version of the Les Paul Standard. This usage has a long history at Gibson USA, but was ignored by Gibson Montana until recently. Adding "Custom" to the model name, does not imply that guitar is in any way custom. So a J-45 Custom is indeed a standard production model (though not a Standard model!), not a custom.

 

What I suspect you're wrong about is thinking of standard production models as being produced by a process that is more automated than that used to build "Custom Shop" guitars. Roughly one-third of guitars built in Bozeman are custom. Many of those wind up with "Custom Shop" decals. Most guitars with "Custom Shop" decals are built entirely on the production line, and almost all of the remainder are built almost entirely on the production line. More to the point, the production line is not all that much more automated than the Custom Shop. Where the production process is automated, Custom Shop guitars typically exploits that automation.

 

Consider your J-35, for example. It is far more custom than most "customs", but it was built mainly on the production line. Ren built the top, but there's not that much difference between the way he built it and the way that the folks on the line build them. He selected the wood, including the braces. He might have cut the braces himself on his bandsaw, and he probably used clamps rather than a vacuum press to hold the braces in place while the glue set. But most of the process is the same. He cut notches in the kerfing for the braces using a hand chisel; the guys on the line cut notches in the kerfing for the braces using hand chisels. Etc. And, although Ren "built the top", that doesn't mean no work was done on the line. I'm sure the top went though the radius sander, and Ren probably asked one of the guys on the line to do that for him: they spend all day using that tool, and so they're the experts on using it, not him.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm reading too much into your choice of the term "machine line", but that term does suggest that standard production models are built by machines while customs are built by people, and that's not the way Gibson works. Ren has sometimes described the plant as one big custom shop, which, while a a bit of an exaggeration, actually provides a more accurate picture: all the guitars are built one-at-a-time, primarily by people using traditional techniques and tools. The two big differences are due to scale. They build enough guitars to allow people to specialize, rather than everyone doing everything, and, for a select few tasks where extreme accuracy and reproducibility are desirable, CNC machines are used. (But then, a number of small shops -- not one-man operations, but few-man operations -- are investing in CNC machines, for exactly the same reasons, and more will as prices continue to drop.)

 

-- Bob R

[blindboygrunt]

holy smokes guys !!

[modoc_333]

You're mostly right. As mentioned before, the word "custom" is being used in two different senses. In "J-45 Custom Rosewood", "Custom" is a Gibson USA term used as part of the model name when the model is a little fancier. E..g., the Les Paul Custom is a fancier version of the Les Paul Standard. This usage has a long history at Gibson USA, but was ignored by Gibson Montana until recently. Adding "Custom" to the model name, does not imply that guitar is in any way custom. So a J-45 Custom is indeed a standard production model (though not a Standard model!), not a custom.

 

What I suspect you're wrong about is thinking of standard production models as being produced by a process that is more automated than that used to build "Custom Shop" guitars. Roughly one-third of guitars built in Bozeman are custom. Many of those wind up with "Custom Shop" decals. Most guitars with "Custom Shop" decals are built entirely on the production line, and almost all of the remainder are built almost entirely on the production line. More to the point, the production line is not all that much more automated than the Custom Shop. Where the production process is automated, Custom Shop guitars typically exploits that automation.

 

Consider your J-35, for example. It is far more custom than most "customs", but it was built mainly on the production line. Ren built the top, but there's not that much difference between the way he built it and the way that the folks on the line build them. He selected the wood, including the braces. He might have cut the braces himself on his bandsaw, and he probably used clamps rather than a vacuum press to hold the braces in place while the glue set. But most of the process is the same. He cut notches in the kerfing for the braces using a hand chisel; the guys on the line cut notches in the kerfing for the braces using hand chisels. Etc. And, although Ren "built the top", that doesn't mean no work was done on the line. I'm sure the top went though the radius sander, and Ren probably asked one of the guys on the line to do that for him: they spend all day using that tool, and so they're the experts on using it, not him.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm reading too much into your choice of the term "machine line", but that term does suggest that standard production models are built by machines while customs are built by people, and that's not the way Gibson works. Ren has sometimes described the plant as one big custom shop, which, while a a bit of an exaggeration, actually provides a more accurate picture: all the guitars are built one-at-a-time, primarily by people using traditional techniques and tools. The two big differences are due to scale. They build enough guitars to allow people to specialize, rather than everyone doing everything, and, for a select few tasks where extreme accuracy and reproducibility are desirable, CNC machines are used. (But then, a number of small shops -- not one-man operations, but few-man operations -- are investing in CNC machines, for exactly the same reasons, and more will as prices continue to drop.)

 

-- Bob R

 

 

the perfect explanation. you got my +

[gotomsdos]

You're mostly right. As mentioned before, the word "custom" is being used in two different senses. In "J-45 Custom Rosewood", "Custom" is a Gibson USA term used as part of the model name when the model is a little fancier. E..g., the Les Paul Custom is a fancier version of the Les Paul Standard. This usage has a long history at Gibson USA, but was ignored by Gibson Montana until recently. Adding "Custom" to the model name, does not imply that guitar is in any way custom. So a J-45 Custom is indeed a standard production model (though not a Standard model!), not a custom.

 

What I suspect you're wrong about is thinking of standard production models as being produced by a process that is more automated than that used to build "Custom Shop" guitars. Roughly one-third of guitars built in Bozeman are custom. Many of those wind up with "Custom Shop" decals. Most guitars with "Custom Shop" decals are built entirely on the production line, and almost all of the remainder are built almost entirely on the production line. More to the point, the production line is not all that much more automated than the Custom Shop. Where the production process is automated, Custom Shop guitars typically exploits that automation.

 

Consider your J-35, for example. It is far more custom than most "customs", but it was built mainly on the production line. Ren built the top, but there's not that much difference between the way he built it and the way that the folks on the line build them. He selected the wood, including the braces. He might have cut the braces himself on his bandsaw, and he probably used clamps rather than a vacuum press to hold the braces in place while the glue set. But most of the process is the same. He cut notches in the kerfing for the braces using a hand chisel; the guys on the line cut notches in the kerfing for the braces using hand chisels. Etc. And, although Ren "built the top", that doesn't mean no work was done on the line. I'm sure the top went though the radius sander, and Ren probably asked one of the guys on the line to do that for him: they spend all day using that tool, and so they're the experts on using it, not him.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm reading too much into your choice of the term "machine line", but that term does suggest that standard production models are built by machines while customs are built by people, and that's not the way Gibson works. Ren has sometimes described the plant as one big custom shop, which, while a a bit of an exaggeration, actually provides a more accurate picture: all the guitars are built one-at-a-time, primarily by people using traditional techniques and tools. The two big differences are due to scale. They build enough guitars to allow people to specialize, rather than everyone doing everything, and, for a select few tasks where extreme accuracy and reproducibility are desirable, CNC machines are used. (But then, a number of small shops -- not one-man operations, but few-man operations -- are investing in CNC machines, for exactly the same reasons, and more will as prices continue to drop.)

 

-- Bob R

OIC

[J-1854Me]

I am fairly certain that the transition to white labels occurred about the 2nd half of 2006. The orange oval labels were used from 1995 till whenever the white labels appeared (2006/7-ish).

 

The white labels are used, in my understanding, for all "standard" models, which means

 

-- anything not Custom Shop

-- anything not signature

-- anything not Legend, True Vintage, New Vintage, Green Vintage, Blue Vintage (okay I just made up those last two)

-- anything not in some other way "standard"

 

And don't forget they used white labels from the Beginning in 1989 till 1994. After they ran out of Centennial labels (in 1995), orange oval labels were used.

 

Fred

[J-1854Me]

And here's the actual typewriter and the actual labels:

[music4love]

And here's the actual typewriter and the actual labels:

 

 

Didn't know these things still existed. Im going to dye the white label on my 2011Hummingbird Modern Classic orange and chase mass confusion!