sboiir Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Anyone know if Gibson has a replacement guy for Ren or will they move someone up from within. If so, who are Gibsons other fine luthiers in line for the job ? Curiosity
rar Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Anyone know if Gibson has a replacement guy for Ren or will they move someone up from within. If so, who are Gibsons other fine luthiers in line for the job ? Curiosity Early signs seem to be that Ren's many hats will be worn by several different people. There are only a couple of people in Bozeman with the qualifications to be considered for the title Master Luthier, and I doubt either will get the job (for reasons having nothing to do with their lutherie skills). My guess is that they will hire from outside, but the new Master Luthier won't have the same level of influence over the production line (and maybe not even over the "Custom Shop") that Ren had. We'll see. -- Bob R
modoc_333 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Early signs seem to be that Ren's many hats will be worn by several different people. There are only a couple of people in Bozeman with the qualifications to be considered for the title Master Luthier, and I doubt either will get the job (for reasons having nothing to do with their lutherie skills). My guess is that they will hire from outside, but the new Master Luthier won't have the same level of influence over the production line (and maybe not even over the "Custom Shop") that Ren had. We'll see. -- Bob R very true. but Jason and Val are high on the heap. just wanted to give them their credit!
ParlourMan Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Early signs seem to be that Ren's many hats will be worn by several different people. There are only a couple of people in Bozeman with the qualifications to be considered for the title Master Luthier That strikes me as a little odd, surely from a business perspective they should always have cover and replacements for key positions, it's not a small business, every business at this level always has a plan B, I would be surprised if Gibson didn't. ...and I doubt either will get the job (for reasons having nothing to do with their lutherie skills). Again I find this odd, Master-luthier may be the official title but factory running would be his day to day business and aside from the odd side project or limited participation in special lines most of Ren's dutires would be in overseeing and management related tasks. My guess is that they will hire from outside, but the new Master Luthier won't have the same level of influence over the production line (and maybe not even over the "Custom Shop") that Ren had. We'll see. What would be the point then, a trophy appointment? Surely the 'need' for a master-luthier would be for the special projects and the occasional show-stopper pieces that are requested/required to be produced, I'm not sure that Ren was the only person in Montana capable of that level of inlay work within the company walls already. Given that Ren's work at Gibson is Gibson's property, or intellectual property then surely a management structure is in place to ensure that the ship keeps steering in that direction, no? Ren was absent for a while and it resulted in no halting of production, the boards sometimes paint him as some kind of superhero, what he was able to do was get a line of builders producing good guitars and refine the process to introduce efficiencies, QC, generalise the construction of special lines by making the custom shop part of the line. More times than I can remember he was fairly vocal about the skills available on the lines at Montana and credited many of the builders as being better at many tasks than himself (a touch of humility for sure) but probably true to a certain degree too. I can't reconcile the idea that absolutely everything at Montana was Ren's idea, if that was the case than his management skills would be questionable in certain areas, as you absolutely must have good people around you. He seemed to paint his role as general overseer and dabbler in special projects, there's little dispute in the recognition of him being the driving force behind rebuilding Gibson acoustics reputation since Montana opened its doors but probably an equal part of his legacy was the fact that he generalised production on the factory lines and that they could sell everything they made. As soon as post Ren models are rolled out, loved, displayed here in photos, played, video'd on youtube and people like what they see/hear we'll get into a kind of 'the king is dead, long live the king' scenario.
EuroAussie Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I fully agree with PM - every creative organisation needs to have a creative leader. The person who signs off on the work, drives innovation and maintains best practice / workmanship. Thats why god invented Creative Directors in ad agencies. Need the same in a creative enterprise like Gibson acoustics.
rar Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 He seemed to paint his role as general overseer and dabbler in special projects, ... This is really my point, expressed rather more humbly that I would put it. The problem isn't finding one person with the skills, knowledge, and interest to do everything Ren used to do -- which is fortunate, as that's almost certainly impossible -- but rather, for each thing he used to do, finding someone with the skills, knowledge, and interests required to do it. This is already happening. For example, there is a new Custom Shop manager. He knows pretty much nothing about designing and building guitars, beyond being able to pick one feature from Column A and one feature from Column B. No reason I can see why this can't work, as long as he has great luthiers to manage and knows how to manage them. (In fact, there are definite advantages to having a manager who doesn't think he is capable of doing everything the people he's managing can do, only better. Whether he's right or not.) I'm not predicting doomsday. People already working there are perfectly capable of continuing the production of existing models -- using existing designs, existing processes, and existing techniques -- and also people capable of building exquisite custom instruments that sound great. So there is no need to do anything right away. That doesn't mean the current employees are capable of doing everything Ren did, or that doing those things they can't isn't essential to the long-term health of the plant. -- Bob R
ajay Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I'm just glad that my AJ is a piece created during Ren's time at Gibson. I wish whoever takes the helm all the luck in the world.
JuanCarlosVejar Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 yeah I'm glad alot of people were/are able to enjoy Ren's contribution to the company JC
Jerry K Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The Bozeman facility can go on indefinitely grinding out the existing models and new versions which recombine features defined for the existing models. Though Ren initially arranged a lot of the setups and jigs and processes employed, the thing ran itself; he was not necessary for day-to-day operations. But Ren did a lot of research and prototyping and was to a considerable extent the 'innovative' ingredient there, even if the 'innovation' in question is the precise reproduction of an old model like the Legend series. Ren would introduce some 'new' model or version and then the features it had (bracing, etc) became precedents, elements which could be re-used. I think he also had a lot to do with choosing wood to buy. In losing Ren they lost a lot.
JuanCarlosVejar Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The Bozeman facility can go on indefinitely grinding out the existing models and new versions which recombine features defined for the existing models. Though Ren initially arranged a lot of the setups and jigs and processes employed, the thing ran itself; he was not necessary for day-to-day operations. But Ren did a lot of research and prototyping and was to a considerable extent the 'innovative' ingredient there, even if the 'innovation' in question is the precise reproduction of an old model like the Legend series. Ren would introduce some 'new' model or version and then the features it had (bracing, etc) became precedents, elements which could be re-used. I think he also had a lot to do with choosing wood to buy. In losing Ren they lost a lot. I don't want to spam the O.P . but did/does Gibson keep any of the Prototype's Ren built (for references later on ...) ? JC
onewilyfool Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Maybe hire someone from the Collings factory and up the fit and finish quotient.....
Guest gloria Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 This is really my point, expressed rather more humbly that I would put it. The problem isn't finding one person with the skills, knowledge, and interest to do everything Ren used to do -- which is fortunate, as that's almost certainly impossible -- but rather, for each thing he used to do, finding someone with the skills, knowledge, and interests required to do it. This is already happening. For example, there is a new Custom Shop manager. He knows pretty much nothing about designing and building guitars, beyond being able to pick one feature from Column A and one feature from Column B. No reason I can see why this can't work, as long as he has great luthiers to manage and knows how to manage them. (In fact, there are definite advantages to having a manager who doesn't think he is capable of doing everything the people he's managing can do, only better. Whether he's right or not.) I'm not predicting doomsday. People already working there are perfectly capable of continuing the production of existing models -- using existing designs, existing processes, and existing techniques -- and also people capable of building exquisite custom instruments that sound great. So there is no need to do anything right away. That doesn't mean the current employees are capable of doing everything Ren did, or that doing those things they can't isn't essential to the long-term health of the plant. -- Bob R great
Duende Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 As many of you know I am a Gibson electric guitar owner, yet love the acoustic section as acoustic guitars (classical and gypsy jazz ones) are my favourite types...Gibson just don't make gypsy jazz or classical guitars - so I always feel a bit of a refugee!! LOL My question is how many guys work under the master luthier at Gibson acoustic? Does the master luthier ever put his own stuff out separate from Gibson, or is that prohibited as a part of the terms and conditions of working for them? cheers Matt
Mojorule Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 As many of you know I am a Gibson electric guitar owner, yet love the acoustic section as acoustic guitars (classical and gypsy jazz ones) are my favourite types...Gibson just don't make gypsy jazz or classical guitars - so I always feel a bit of a refugee!! LOL My question is how many guys work under the master luthier at Gibson acoustic? Does the master luthier ever put his own stuff out separate from Gibson, or is that prohibited as a part of the terms and conditions of working for them? cheers Matt Can't answer the question with certainty, Matt, but it's tens and not hundreds, I believe. Nice to hear from you. Been a while in this neck of the woods (at least in terms of the threads I've been following). No gypsy jazzers, but Django did play an archtop in America, didn't he? A (pre-Gibson) Epiphone though, perchance? Still, on that basis there would be some Gibson acoustics which might suit you, albeit in the vintage market. Plus, you should hear what some of the American fiddle competition guitarists get up to with lowly J45s and slightly less lowly Southern Jumbos. All a bit Sultans of Swing (strictly rhythm), but some very hot clubby chord playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Kd1Ouh1sQ&feature=related As John Thomson would say, 'Nice'.
Duende Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Can't answer the question with certainty, Matt, but it's tens and not hundreds, I believe. Nice to hear from you. Been a while in this neck of the woods (at least in terms of the threads I've been following). No gypsy jazzers, but Django did play an archtop in America, didn't he? A (pre-Gibson) Epiphone though, perchance? Still, on that basis there would be some Gibson acoustics which might suit you, albeit in the vintage market. Plus, you should hear what some of the American fiddle competition guitarists get up to with lowly J45s and slightly less lowly Southern Jumbos. All a bit Sultans of Swing (strictly rhythm), but some very hot clubby chord playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Kd1Ouh1sQ&feature=related As John Thomson would say, 'Nice'. Ha ha, I quite like the lowly J45 . Even the great John 5 uses one (one of my favourite electric guitarists). To be honest with you, if have never played a Gibson acoustic that has bowled me over. I'll certainly never say never; but so far, they just haven't seemed for me. When it comes to 'acoustic' anyway - I of course favour nylon (not just for classical, but even for some jazz and popular styles). Although, I do though have two steel strung guitars; my custom gypsy jazzer and also an Ibanez Steve Vai ERP 9 acoustic. On the very rare time my wife and I do play a folk type piece in public, (and if I am not going to use a nylon guitar), I may use one of our two steel strung guitars. Re Django I was surprised recently when I hired a documentary about Django from 'love film' , how much his style evolved and became quite avant garde, after the manouche period! It was just great hearing him play so 'off the wall' and free - like you say, he played lots of electric too. There is something about the freedom a gypsy jazzer allows you when improvising fast lead lines. The sound just melts me too Gibsons I do want? well we're off to Sweden next month and I'll get to play my mates Byrdland, which is a guitar that I am so, so, so fond of! He agreed I can consider it like a God son LOL Take care Matt
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