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Just got my '49 J-50. My God, what a sound ...


brians356

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Fedex kept it bouncing around on the delivery truck an extra two days, but it doesn't seem to have hurt the sound any. "Golden Voice" probably describes it best. I've played a few '50s and '60s J-45s and J-50s at Normans' in LA, but this one really knocks my **** in the dirt. Wow. Yeah it needs the usual pick guard R&R, the odd minor crack healed, and the lacquer (where it's not worn away) looks like Walden pond at spring thaw, but as Sweet Baby James said it, "Close your eyes" ... and listen.

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In spite of being rapturous about this guitar, I'm dealing with a seller issue just now. He claimed cracks visible on the back were "just in the lacquer, not all the way through." Well, there are several cracks all the way through, no gaps, routine to deal with, but still I feel taken advantage of as the price could have gone lower had bidders known the truth. He's claiming the shipper must have made the cracks worse! (Guitar was well packed, newspaper in the case, and those foam peanuts in the box, no damage to the box itself. Temps have been moderate the last few days. If shipping caused those cracks to deepen, we could never risk shipping any guitars, ever!)

 

Some day I'll figure out how to post pics here.

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I'm not trying to shake him down for money, but I do have to submit feedback to Ebay, and I feel he needs to be more forthcoming in future dealings. He's a dealer, not a newbie. I don't plan to slam him, but I am going to be honest, and that means a red tag, not green. If anyone feels I am being unfair, I would appreciate hearing your POV.

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Brian,

 

The geet is a '49...............it's gonna have an abundance of checking. I f you have more all through cracks than you were led to believe and they are gonna cost you$ based on the sellers description, then you have a case. We don't know... its your call!! Simple arithmetic.....add up what was said was there....subtract what what was actualy there.

 

Difference is what he owes you within REASON

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btw, looking at those pictures i can CLEARLY see that the cracks in the back are NOT just finish cracks.

i think it's funny he has the statement about not believing in "don't ask don't tell"

 

that being said..... i'm surprised. his auctions generally appear to be really straight. i would call him back. those pics clearly show cracks in the wood.

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Significant changes in humidity during shipping could have caused existing cracks to widen (or even new cracks if the changes were really extreme). If the guitar sounds as good as you say, get the cracks cleated and whisper a little thank you to the seller and give him a decent rating or don't rate.

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Neutral is another option for eBay feedback. It sounds to me like you really love the guitar and you just feel it wasn't described quite right.

 

If you feel you paid too much for the guitar given its actual condition, maybe you should shake the dealer down for a few bucks instead of making it more difficult for him to make these kinds of guitars available by leaving a negative feedback. Obviously, a '49 didn't land in your hands for free - so I would think there is room to get some money back for repairs and any reasonable dealer is likely to be flexible - it really goes with the trade.

 

If you give the seller the option of paying for the necessary repairs he forgot to mention, and he fails to work it out with you, then perhaps a negative feedback is going to help the next person in line.

 

Ultimately, for the cost of shipping, you can return the guitar.

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You can see in the pics that the bridge is not as original, it is the correct plan form (square Gibson) but the saddle slot runs out the ends (vintage Martin style) rather than ends enclosed. (I have a late '40s LG-3 for comparison.) And the bridge has been shaved down to 3/16" thickness. But the irony is that the bridge didn't need to be shaved, it is now about 1/16" below a straightedge held on top of the frets, and adding back that missing 1/16" would make it about the same thickness as my LG-3's bridge. Anyway, even if you ask about all these dimensions (knowing as I do about their importance, both for originality and for what they say about the neck angle, etc.) you can never get the full story or see things in pictures, you really must have the guitar in hand. With auctions on something this old, you need to build in some headroom on your bids to allow for some unexpected repairs or restorations. Luckily, I can do much of it myself. And even with these surprises (I should have noticed the saddle) the upside potential for this guitar is still good, and there is room for putting some money into it. And it does have the sound.

 

I appreciate the comments, chaps. The seller is now suggesting some sort of accommodation, so I should be able to avoid dinging him in the feedback. I can enjoy the guitar like it is, and there are also some luthiery projects built into it!

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Can anyone tell me how you search completed auctions on ebay? I'd like to look at this one but couldn't figure out how to do it. I'm sure its pretty easy, but....

 

 

In the mean time, and without having seen the guitar. I have a 49 SJ that has the original bridge. It's a reverse belly bridge and the saddle slot indeed does go though and is not closed. Since we're talking Gibson here, I realize that may not be definitive of anything at all, but through the info might be useful.

 

By the way, in case your not familiar with it, here's a great resource on vintage Gibson's (and others as well)

 

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson.html#intro

 

I wouldn't depend on your LG3 to be a barometer of anything on the J-50. That the LG-3 used a certain thickness of bridge does not mean that the J-45's and 50's of the period did also. Check out the link closely and you'll see that even models that were closely aligned, such as the SJ and J45, didn't necessarily move in tandem in terms of when things were changed, or even what was changed. You do have to look at the individual mode your interested in.

 

Last, I've also done some work on guitars and am pretty confident of my ability. That said, there's no way in the world I'd touch anything on my SJ (outside of the routine setup, of course). I know how to fix a crack pretty well and cleanly, but in the end, you'll know that it was there. You'll see it in the finish, and it will be pretty obvious. On the other hand, someone like Dennis Berck in Eugene can often (but not always) repair it and make it look almost as if it never happened. The difference between an experienced amateur and an expert. No criticism intended, just food for thought.

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Dennis,

 

Thanks for those comments. I will do more research on the bridge. As for the thickness, 3/16" is too thin, the thinnest nominal bridges on Gibson and Martin acoustics (according to Dan Erlewine) are 5/16". He claims he and many luthiers get nervous with a bridge that's 1/4". I do see now some Gibsons back then had the through saddle (on belly bridges anyway) but feel that mine has been shaved, whatever the origin. I'll figure it out.

 

Re: Home repairs, I am not a professional, but a handy and meticulous person (engineer by trade) who is learning luthiery on my own. I'm the kind of guy who will stare at and study up on something like a bridge R&R for weeks, obtain the right tools, then start trying to remove it very carefully, and at the first sign that I might be stuck or about to break something, call timeout and take it to the pro. Re: the cracks in the back, I would simply work some thinned-down Titebond into them and clamp them closed carefully across the sides. They will still be apparent because of the lacquer splits, but all I care about is stabilizing them. The shrinking PG, accompanying small crack and loose brace need to be addressed, which I would tackle only after I finish the exact same task on my LG-3 and I like the results there.

 

"First, do no harm."

 

PS To view completed auctions, you need an Ebay account. It will make you log in when you click on "completed listings."

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"First' date=' do no harm." "[/quote']

 

Words to live by.

 

Good for you for being so thorough. Fun working on an old guitar, isn't it. If you think about it, it would be nice to see some pictures of how you make these repairs at some point. At least for me. I'm also interested in what texts, if any, your using for resource material for your repairs. Always looking for new books. Have you checked out Bryan Kimsey's site? Lots of good information there.

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Books I own: "Guitar Player Repair Guide" by Dan Erlewine, "Complete Guitar Repair" by Hideo Kamimoto, "The Acoustic Guitar" by Don Teeter. Still to acquire: "The Acoustic Guitar Volumes I and II" By Don Teeter, "Guitar Repair" and "Steel String Guitar Construction" by Irving Sloane.

 

Web Sites I like: frets.com (Frank Ford / Gryphon Stringed Instruments), fretnotguitarrepair.com, cumpiano.com (William Cumpiano Guitarmakers, newsletters and articles archives), fingerlakesguitarrepair.com, guitarworkshoponline.com, stewmac.com (Stewart-McDonald luthiery tools)

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