patrick2099 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 As I had posted a few weeks ago, the first Les Paul that I purchased from Musician's Friend had a broken neck, and the replacement keeps getting bumped forward in time. While waiting, I ended up really liking the Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro, in wine red. I ended up getting a good deal on one, with the Valentine's Day special, and the credit that was put on my account because of the problems with my first order. The closest Epiphone dealer to me is about two hours away, so it is much more convenient to order my guitars, even though I feel like I am playing the lottery, by not getting to play them before I buy them. I like the way that the guitar looks and sounds, but there were a few issues that, I view most of as being minor. I would appreciate any of your advice on whether I should send the guitar back for a replacement, or take it to a tech to look at. The cosmetic defects are very minor, and most would occur while I play it, but there may also be an electrical issue. If I could get everything repaired/set up for under $50, I would probably rather keep it, then play shipping Russian roulette again. From least important to most: 1) A small, barely noticeable flaw in the binding, near the top part of the cutaway. 2) There are some small imperfections in the finish. They are so tiny that I hate to even call them scratches, and they would be there in a few weeks even with a perfect finish. 3) The knobs are clearly not straight, but do work fine. 4) The 13th fret of the D string buzzes when played. There were more buzzing problems, but the neck was completely straight, so adding a tiny amount of relief cured all but one area. 5) When not touching the strings, there is an electrical hum. The hum is much worse on the neck pickup than on the bridge pickup. If I pull up on the neck pickup volume pot, to split the coil, it is very loud. My 18 or so year old, cheap Hamer Slammer doesn't do this, with its single coil neck pickup selected. If I touch the strings, it mostly goes away. If I touch the output jack, it mostly goes away. The cosmetic issues really don't matter that much to me, and I would rather live with slight cosmetic issues on a good-sounding guitar than have a pretty guitar that sounds awful. I got a pretty decent deal on the guitar, and wouldn't mind paying a little (probably under $50) to get these issues resolved. Do you think that the other issues could be rectified for that amount, or would I be better off returning the guitar as defective and trying again? Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sounds like you are not getting very good guitars considering all the issues with them. I would return both and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekefr Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have 4 musicians friend guitars,3 bought off the scratch and dent or used pages,ive never had any problems like you're mentioning,i agree in returning it unless u just dont care about the scratches,sounds like theres a poor ground connection? if you didnt get this as a level 2 or 3 guitar,send it back,sounds like alot of tedious imperfections if you were expecting a level 1 <brand new> guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDEO Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Are these being built on the same assembly line as the 339's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 This was a new guitar, not a scratch and dent our second. They aren't ready scratches. More like swirls. They aren't very noticeable. I took the guitar to a tech, and no one there thought that the hum was an issue. I guess that the frets were very uneven, from 12 to 15. They said that, to correct the buzzing, and still have decent action, that the guitar would need fret work done. They recommended someone to me for the fret work, and I am going to see him after work. His estimate was around $100, but said that he needed to look at the guitar, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDEO Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 They didn't think the hum was an issue. Did they hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 They didn't think the hum was an issue. Did they hear it. Yah, they said that the uncovered pickups and standing close to the amp were causing it. It isn't super-loud, but it is noticeably louder than even the single-coil pickup on my other guitar. Granted, I'm sure that it is a higher output pickup, and that may be magnifying it, but I guess that I will take their word for it. Unfortunately, when I had the frets looked at, at the second shop, the guy said that some needed to be reseated, and most of them were not level. He said that it would be about $180 to fix everything that needed fixed, and to do a setup on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yah, they said that the uncovered pickups and standing close to the amp were causing it. It isn't super-loud, but it is noticeably louder than even the single-coil pickup on my other guitar. Granted, I'm sure that it is a higher output pickup, and that may be magnifying it, but I guess that I will take their word for it. Unfortunately, when I had the frets looked at, at the second shop, the guy said that some needed to be reseated, and most of them were not level. He said that it would be about $180 to fix everything that needed fixed, and to do a setup on it. A fret leveling and dressing is not an uncommon need for a new guitar, even an expensive model, but oddly, none of the 5 Epis I've bought from Musician's Friend have needed one, including a $130 LP Junior. I have had to adjust the action and intonation, but never even seen a fret that needed to be reseated on a new MF guitar. The hum issue sounds like a bad solder ground to me, but it could also be a failing cable or loose jack, so check that and try a few different cables if you haven't already. $180 might not be too much to pay for a really good fret and setup job on a used $2k guitar, but it doesn' make sense on a brand new $500 guitar. I would return it one more time, but this time ask for a manager, and ask them to completely inspect the guitar neck and pickup hum before it goes out. Either that or go to a bricks and mortar shop where you can play the thing before you walk out the door with it. Even then, make sure you have at least 30 days (in writing) to return it. You should be 100% satisfied with your purchase at any price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 A fret leveling and dressing is not an uncommon need for a new guitar, even an expensive model, but oddly, none of the 5 Epis I've bought from Musician's Friend have needed one, including a $130 LP Junior. I have had to adjust the action and intonation, but never even seen a fret that needed to be reseated on a new MF guitar. The hum issue sounds like a bad solder ground to me, but it could also be a failing cable or loose jack, so check that and try a few different cables if you haven't already. $180 might not be too much to pay for a really good fret and setup job on a used $2k guitar, but it doesn't make sense on a brand new $500 guitar. I would return it one more time, but this time ask for a manager, and ask them to completely inspect the guitar neck and pickup hum before it goes out. Either that or go to a bricks and mortar shop where you can play the thing before you walk out the door with it. Even then, make sure you have at least 30 days (in writing) to return it. You should be 100% satisfied with your purchase at any price point. brianh, I agree. If I was getting a $2,000-3,000 guitar, I wouldn't mind paying a small portion of the guitar's value to have a professional fret job. Putting an additional $180 into a $500 guitar seemed a bit much to me. I am glad to hear that you have had success with Musician's Friend. The owner of the music store I went even told me that he has ordered a few guitars from there, and they were all fine. He also said that he couldn't understand how a guitar with frets that bad made it out of quality control. He said that if you want a guitar to really feel like a professional guitar, about 1 in 30 will feel like that from the factory, and that most will need a little work, but the guitar should at least be playable. I actually requested having the original guitar sent back properly inspected, after they emailed me, having seen my posts on here. I was trying to rush to get the guitar shipped out today (which I failed at), and didn't think of it when I was on the phone. Maybe I will try the guy from MF that emailed me about my first guitar, with the broken neck. At least they haven't given me a hassle about anything that I have returned, yet. I was quite impressed that someone took the time to get ahold of me, after reading a post on this forum. That is the main reason that I ordered from them again, after having problems with the first guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 I always prefer the brick and mortar music stores, but the nearest Gibson dealer is about two hours away, and didn't have the Trad Pro in wine red or the Plus Top in honeyburst. There are music stores with other brands in the Les Paul style, but I think that if you can get past the shoddy quality control, and actually get a good one, nothing gets you the quality per dollar of an Epiphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Well I'm not one to talk with all the Epi's I have, but Rondo Agiles are a lot of guitar for the bucks and have a rabid following. Problem is, they are not Gibsons or even from a Gibson subsidiary so don't hold their resale value well. The troublle with guitars in general is that there is such a high potential for error in the manufacturing process that finding a good one can be a hassle even when spending a bundle. In all my years of playing and buying, I've only personally handled 5 guitars that needed nothing out of the case: Guild A500 jazz box (bought form a guitar tech); Gibson ES-225T (never should have sold); custom strat copy (hand-made from a builder); Sadowsky Semi Hollow (from Roger Sadowsky's pro shop); Genesis reissue (prototype built for Epi1). All the rest needed minor to major tweaking, and a few had to go back to the seller (Rondo, Epiphone) and a few I just got rid of (Epiphone, Schecter, Fender). Bottom line, if you find any guitar that plays and sounds really great, hang on to that sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The people in the store are B.S.ing you about the hum.I have a Trad Pro like yours,right down to the colour.I can stand next to any amp,even my Marshall stack ,at any angle and volume and it's whisper quiet even in the single coil setting,there is definitely something out of whack there.A couple of the pot shafts aren't perfectly straight but it is barely enough to be noticeable unless you are holding up to your face.There were no cosmetic issues with and so there shouldn't be on a new guitar unless it's a store demo or factory second.Send the guitar back and be assertive with them and don't take no for an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Thanks everyone. bonzo, I think that you are right about the hum. I turned everything off, in my area, except for the amp. I tried multiple guitars through two amps, and this was the only guitar that I could reproduce the him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LerxstLee Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yah, they said that the uncovered pickups and standing close to the amp were causing it. It isn't super-loud, but it is noticeably louder than even the single-coil pickup on my other guitar. Granted, I'm sure that it is a higher output pickup, and that may be magnifying it, but I guess that I will take their word for it. Unfortunately, when I had the frets looked at, at the second shop, the guy said that some needed to be reseated, and most of them were not level. He said that it would be about $180 to fix everything that needed fixed, and to do a setup on it. I am also a good distance from a Gibson dealer, even then the odds of that store having the guitar I want are unlikely. They only have about a dozen gibsons and alot of epiphones. I order online and have had great luck with MF , I make clear I want the guitar in the original box unopened, Gibsons have a yellow seal , "Do not accept if this seal is open" , I did get one that was in a "generic box" that was clearly a demo or a return, it had buckle rash and worn strings, they took it back and sent me a new one that was really nice. I learned the hard way about letting "little issues" go , and got stuck with a guitar that had problems that did not seem like a big deal at first, yet it really had some issues and it took a bit for most of them to show up , it was not ordered from MF , the place had a 24hr return policy and they stick to it. I am not one to order a guitar just to try it out , I know what I want before I order, yet when I recieve it , it should only need minor tweaking to get it set up the way I like it imHo. I no longer make excuses for poor craftsmanship period. The guitar should be inspected and set up before it leaves the factory. I do not agree with taking any new instrument to my luthier to spend more money on a new item that should be correct from the start. Be it a $500.00 or $5000.00 guitar. Your instrument costs $500.00 and it needs about 40% of its cost to get it to play properly , and that does not address the issue(s) of the hum you are getting from it. I would send it right back , politely let them know you are willing to give it one more shot . Then hope for the best. Time is never on your side, and the issues you are pointing out will not get better on their own. I see guitars on store floors that should have never passed quality control being sold at regular price. I don't believe MF , nor buying online has anything to do with defective instruments. I sure do wish I could check out a guitar before I buy it , I do when I can ,yet sometimes you have to order it online. Always go with someone with at least a 10 day if not a 30 day return policy. Best of luck to you. /cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 I am also a good distance from a Gibson dealer, even then the odds of that store having the guitar I want are unlikely. They only have about a dozen gibsons and alot of epiphones. I order online and have had great luck with MF , I make clear I want the guitar in the original box unopened, Gibsons have a yellow seal , "Do not accept if this seal is open" , I did get one that was in a "generic box" that was clearly a demo or a return, it had buckle rash and worn strings, they took it back and sent me a new one that was really nice. I learned the hard way about letting "little issues" go , and got stuck with a guitar that had problems that did not seem like a big deal at first, yet it really had some issues and it took a bit for most of them to show up , it was not ordered from MF , the place had a 24hr return policy and they stick to it. I am not one to order a guitar just to try it out , I know what I want before I order, yet when I recieve it , it should only need minor tweaking to get it set up the way I like it imHo. I no longer make excuses for poor craftsmanship period. The guitar should be inspected and set up before it leaves the factory. I do not agree with taking any new instrument to my luthier to spend more money on a new item that should be correct from the start. Be it a $500.00 or $5000.00 guitar. Your instrument costs $500.00 and it needs about 40% of its cost to get it to play properly , and that does not address the issue(s) of the hum you are getting from it. I would send it right back , politely let them know you are willing to give it one more shot . Then hope for the best. Time is never on your side, and the issues you are pointing out will not get better on their own. I see guitars on store floors that should have never passed quality control being sold at regular price. I don't believe MF , nor buying online has anything to do with defective instruments. I sure do wish I could check out a guitar before I buy it , I do when I can ,yet sometimes you have to order it online. Always go with someone with at least a 10 day if not a 30 day return policy. Best of luck to you. /cheers Thanks LerxstLee. I kind of felt like I was being a little too harsh, until I read what you wrote. Seriously, though, you are 100% correct. Either at music stores, pawn shops, or my own, I have played a ton of guitars, mostly between $200-700. Almost all of them have been completely playable. Sure, I may adjust the action a little, fix the intonation, and do other minor things, but you really should be able to buy a guitar and play it without paying a ton of money to get it working. Both of the Epiphones that I received had the little quality control tag on them. I can understand the neck being broken during shipment, but I cannot understand the guitar being sent out with strings under full tension, the high E string being completely off the fretboard, or a fret job that the tech at the music center said was "the worst that he has ever seen". The second one that I received was sealed, in the factory box, so this was a quality control issue, and not a Musician's Friend issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I look at buying a guitar the same way as buying a car. You wouldn't accept it if you bought a new car and had to bring it in for tire balancing and a wheel alignment when you first drive it off the lot. You may have to fill it up with gas and adjust your seating position, which to me is like changing your strings and adjusting your action, but that's about it You sure wouldn't accept a shoddy paint job or scratches in the finish either. When you buy something new, it should be exactly what you pay for and not need any repairs. If it does, return it. IF enough people did that maybe they would take their quality control a bit more seriously, both at the Epi end as well as at the dealer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick2099 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 I look at buying a guitar the same way as buying a car. You wouldn't accept it if you bought a new car and had to bring it in for tire balancing and a wheel alignment when you first drive it off the lot. You may have to fill it up with gas and adjust your seating position, which to me is like changing your strings and adjusting your action, but that's about it You sure wouldn't accept a shoddy paint job or scratches in the finish either. When you buy something new, it should be exactly what you pay for and not need any repairs. If it does, return it. IF enough people did that maybe they would take their quality control a bit more seriously, both at the Epi end as well as at the dealer.. Barcham, after putting more thought into it, that is exactly how I feel. Great analogy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer231 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 This is why I don't buy guitars online from any store. And a new guitar should look brand new, not have ANY flaws in it at all. There is something to be said for picking a guitar up and looking it over. And you shouldn't need to dress the frets on a new guitar, especially on a $2,000- $3,000 guitar. You are paying for that workmanship. I've never had to get frets dressed, because if I saw rough frets I just didn't buy the guitar. A dealer can get a guitar in pretty quickly, all he has to do is place the order and they usually will UPS it to him the next day. I lived in a small town with one guitar store, and he had carried Washburn. I wanted a certain model acoustic and he had it within 2 days via UPS. Guitar Center will ship a guitar to a store for free and you can examine it before you buy it. I had a friend just do that with a Tele, it came and he said, "Nope." He didn't have to buy the guitar and 3 days later they got a new one in and he took that one. I'd say ship it back, MF is really really good about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 As I had posted a few weeks ago, the first Les Paul that I purchased from Musician's Friend had a broken neck, and the replacement keeps getting bumped forward in time. While waiting, I ended up really liking the Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro, in wine red. I ended up getting a good deal on one, with the Valentine's Day special, and the credit that was put on my account because of the problems with my first order. The closest Epiphone dealer to me is about two hours away, so it is much more convenient to order my guitars, even though I feel like I am playing the lottery, by not getting to play them before I buy them. I like the way that the guitar looks and sounds, but there were a few issues that, I view most of as being minor. I would appreciate any of your advice on whether I should send the guitar back for a replacement, or take it to a tech to look at. The cosmetic defects are very minor, and most would occur while I play it, but there may also be an electrical issue. If I could get everything repaired/set up for under $50, I would probably rather keep it, then play shipping Russian roulette again. From least important to most: 1) A small, barely noticeable flaw in the binding, near the top part of the cutaway. 2) There are some small imperfections in the finish. They are so tiny that I hate to even call them scratches, and they would be there in a few weeks even with a perfect finish. 3) The knobs are clearly not straight, but do work fine. 4) The 13th fret of the D string buzzes when played. There were more buzzing problems, but the neck was completely straight, so adding a tiny amount of relief cured all but one area. 5) When not touching the strings, there is an electrical hum. The hum is much worse on the neck pickup than on the bridge pickup. If I pull up on the neck pickup volume pot, to split the coil, it is very loud. My 18 or so year old, cheap Hamer Slammer doesn't do this, with its single coil neck pickup selected. If I touch the strings, it mostly goes away. If I touch the output jack, it mostly goes away. The cosmetic issues really don't matter that much to me, and I would rather live with slight cosmetic issues on a good-sounding guitar than have a pretty guitar that sounds awful. I got a pretty decent deal on the guitar, and wouldn't mind paying a little (probably under $50) to get these issues resolved. Do you think that the other issues could be rectified for that amount, or would I be better off returning the guitar as defective and trying again? Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Try installing "Gibson" nickle plated humbucker covers to reduce the feedback at higher volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian K Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yah, they said that the uncovered pickups and standing close to the amp were causing it. It isn't super-loud, but it is noticeably louder than even the single-coil pickup on my other guitar. Granted, I'm sure that it is a higher output pickup, and that may be magnifying it, but I guess that I will take their word for it. Unfortunately, when I had the frets looked at, at the second shop, the guy said that some needed to be reseated, and most of them were not level. He said that it would be about $180 to fix everything that needed fixed, and to do a setup on it. I also just bought a new trad pro. Mine is aesthetically flawless without one scratch or swirl. I also had some humming issues and was told the exact same thing as you. I just adjusted how close I sit to my amp and other electronics like my laptop. I actually just turned around to face away and the hum went away. However, I would be upset at the other issues your guitar seems to have. I would exchange it or have the issues fixed under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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