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Humiliate the Other Guy


heymisterk

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Cutting contests are pretty damn old school, actually... Some (Most?) of y'all's heroes's heroes most likely threw down hard in some cutting contests at one point or another.

I say, my dear chap, perhaps in the jolly old "Former Colonies" and all that rot, what? But hardly in dear old Blighty, dont'cha know? I mean to say! Hardly Cricket, Old Boy!

 

[smile]

 

P.

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No matter where you go, no matter what you do, there is always someone better than you.

 

You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians, or you can play for the general public. If you are good enough you will get the audience you asked for.

 

While I appreciate compliments from other musicians, I don't live for that. And if happen to be with someone who plays better than me, I don't feel belittled - instead I enthusiastically compliment them and try to learn something for them.

 

I don't consider music a competitive sport, and I try to live by the golden rule. If I'm with someone who doesn't play as well as I do, I'll still compliment that player on the things he/she does well. And if they do something I don't know how to do, I'll ask them to show me.

 

Even a great teacher can learn things from his/her students.

 

When I was a teenager we played for a MD telethon in the Miami Convention Center right before the Dave Brubeck Quartet. I was young, inexperienced, and although first chair sax in the all-state band, did not know how to improvise very well yet. The great sax player, Paul Desmond was complimentary to me and encouraging as well. It felt so great that one of my idols had something nice to say about me that right then and there I decided that when I get good, that's the kind of musician I want to be.

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I say, my dear chap, perhaps in the jolly old "Former Colonies" and all that rot, what? But hardly in dear old Blighty, dont'cha know? I mean to say! Hardly Cricket, Old Boy!

 

[smile]

 

P.

 

It was a rite of passage (or denial) for jazz and blues heads in the US (where the best jazz, blues, and rock and roll has always come from, naturally). Cutting still happens in some circles, but nowadays people like to save face and be non-confrontational. In New Orleans, you still might hear about how X got his head cut off by Y. WTF do y'all think 'trading off solos' comes from?

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WTF do y'all think 'trading off solos' comes from?

 

I thought it came from the "call and answer" concept that exists in African music and that blues players weaved into the blues, not as a competition. I am not saying it cannot become one though.

 

So you are saying like a "dance off" but on guitar?

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With my skill level, I'm the humiliatee. Never could understand the rush of making someone else look bad.

 

Here ya go.

 

"I only did this one time intentionally, really felt bad afterwards but would never admit it to him in person. The guy was a hack, cork sniffer and all those things I hate all rolled into one mass of hate towards everything I stand for.

 

It felt good........ "

Guitarest

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The only time i purposely tried to outplay someone was a radio contest,my first and only,it was for van halen/kenny wayne shepard tickets & cd's.Had to call in @ 6 am /yawns, i played against 2 other peeps,one dude did the intro to "aint talkin" the other played a pretty good riff that ive forgotten,i played the last 30-40 seconds of eruption.Some listeners called in to vote and i won !! Stepping back or backing off to let others shine has always been a given imo.The guy that taught me 28 yrs ago ended up joining a band i started to promote my original cd,playing with someone that you KNOW is gonna smoke his leads was awesome and kinda kept me on my toes.My former band did 2 reunion gigs and a charity gig last yr,the last song of the charity event we did "simple man" and the guitarist that took my place when i left the band was there and had helped setup.I know his main guitar is a peavy,poor guy lol,so i motioned him up onstage just before the lead and handed him my main guitar,schecter classic [thumbup] ,all unplanned,told him to play the sh*t out of it and showed him the lead/rythym banks on my pedal and walked offstage.My bass player told me later that he really admired me for doing that. [thumbup]

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In a jam or studio setting, I rarely find myself in the position of working with musicians that have noticeably less ability than I...... When I was younger I definately didn't have the patience to deal with it, and now that I'm older, my patience level for those situations isn't much improved.

 

IMO, it's the responsibility of the musician to know his or her present abilities, and where he or she will fit in and jam with those that maneuver in that same radar space....

 

In a nut shell know your ability....

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Really not what op was about.

 

I thought he was talking about real life, not the internet bashing of someone posting a clip of their playing....

 

In my experience, those types of situations (in real life) dont usually happen unless you put yourself in that position

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OK, but here's a "real life" situation...say you're at a "Jam" or "Open Mic" night,

with varying "talent" levels present. Would you (purposely) "head chop" all the

people in the room, that were not as good as you, or...would you help make them

"shine," to the best of their abilities, even if it meant you "playing down" your

own abilities?

 

Personally, I always try to "blend in," rather than show off! Work with

the other's there, within that framework. But, that's just me! [tongue]

 

CB

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OK, but here's a "real life" situation...say you're at a "Jam" or "Open Mic" night,

with varying "talent" levels present. Would you (purposely) "head chop" all the

people in the room, that were not as good as you, or...would you help make them

"shine," to the best of their abilities, even if it meant you "playing down" your

own abilities?

 

Personally, I always try to "blend in," rather than show off! Work with

the other's there, within that framework. But, that's just me! [tongue]

 

CB

 

I guess if you do open mic that would be the right approach.

 

But if you have a band and some beginner wants to jam and you know he's not going to keep up..... you don't let him jam with your group.

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When playing in a jam session, I always play my best (in fact, whenever I play, I always play my best) but I try to play appropriately.

 

If I'm playing with less talented musicians, I'll slow down and play lyrical solos instead of blazing speed (on saxophone, I'm not blazing fast on guitar). If doing trade offs, I'll try to complement what they others are playing, and perhaps enthusiastically egg them on to play above their comfort zone just a little.

 

If playing with someone better than me, I'll try to learn as much as I can.

 

I've been in hundreds of jam sessions, I had the pleasure of playing with some famous people, and I've played with a lot of people who weren't as good as I am - that's just the way it is. But I've never been in a cutting contest. An orgy of sound yes, but cutting contest, no. My main purpose in playing music is to have fun, not to feed my ego, especially by belittling someone else.

 

Notes

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It's much more gratifying being supportive to another musician who isn't quite so accomplished than attempting to embarrass them.

 

Just my feeling though. Probably because of the numerous guys that allowed me to sit in with them when i wasn't in there league.

 

And that's a great attutude to have [thumbup]

 

I wont jam in a band unless all musicians know how to read music..... The drummer might get a pass but that would be the only musician.

 

Most musician during my era knew how to read music, and played more than one instrument.... It makes rehearsals much more productive

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With regards to a 'jam', I am assuming a public performance, with or without some improv going on.

 

My opinion (obviously) in any such circumstance is the audience and the performance comes first. So, if you rip out a good song or a good set, EVERYONE digs it and everyone comes off looking good and feeling good.

 

I think MORE importantly than your personal ability or what you can play (or can't) is your ability to play with others. You can be the greatest guitar player in the room, but if you can't use that to the benefit of pumping out a tune that sounds good with the players you share the stage with, it doesn't do the audience much good.

 

Everyone, regardless of ability, has something to offer. If you know how to find it and bring it out, you can put together a killer set. That goes for playing with someone who has a very limited vocabulary to someone who is a superstar with a burning lead brewing in their lions.

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I guess I look to the people I admire and watch how they do it and believe me I'm not comparing my abilities to their's in anyway.

 

 

I've watched scores of videos of Clapton burying the ego and playing second fiddle to other artist on stage. Giving them the spotlight and playing his part just for the sheer joy of playing.

 

Could he blow them away if he felt inspired to do so? Probably, but what would that accomplish.

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I wont jam in a band unless all musicians know how to read music..... The drummer might get a pass but that would be the only musician.

 

 

 

So if your at a club and you get asked to jam with the house band do you quiz each one first before getting up to play?msp_flapper.gif

 

PS: You would never have jammed with the Beatles then.

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And that's a great attutude to have [thumbup]

 

I wont jam in a band unless all musicians know how to read music..... The drummer might get a pass but that would be the only musician.

 

Most musician during my era knew how to read music, and played more than one instrument.... It makes rehearsals much more productive

 

Well, I guess we'll never "jam" then, huh?! LOL

 

CB

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