uriahsmusic Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 After a neck has been repaired by a Gibson authorizes repair technician, How far down does it bring the value of the guitar? Es355 custom
Guest EastEnder Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 The short answer is whatever the market will bear, which means that there is no way of knowing until you get an offer. Apologies if I miss the mark completely here, but reading between the lines of this and your previous "broken neck" post, it appears that you are considering the purchase of a guitar with the intent of reselling it. IIRC, the dollar amount was $1,500. You might get more, you might get less. Personally, I'd be reluctant to waste my time in such a venture. On the other hand, I saw a Les Paul Custom in several pieces with no hardware on ebay the other day. I was absolutely stunned that the number of bids stood at 21 and the price was up to about $1,250. Had no idea that firewood fetched such princely sums. Good luck, whatever you do.
BigKahune Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 . A neck repair? . . Minor crack? . Big crack? . Broken neck or headstock? If it was a good repair job on - - a minor crack repair I would expect it to be devalued somewhat against the regular "going" price for the same guitar in similar condition with no neck repair. - a big crack, broken neck or broken headstock I would expect it to be devalued by 50% or so against the regular "going" price for the same guitar in similar condition with no neck repair. Doesn't matter who repaired it. In the case of the guitar on your other thread, looking at completed listings on fleaBay, $1500 is in the 50% off ballpark, if you're willing. I would play it first and see if the repair is stable and the guitar stays in tune. .
uriahsmusic Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 The short answer is whatever the market will bear, which means that there is no way of knowing until you get an offer. Apologies if I miss the mark completely here, but reading between the lines of this and your previous "broken neck" post, it appears that you are considering the purchase of a guitar with the intent of reselling it. IIRC, the dollar amount was $1,500. You might get more, you might get less. Personally, I'd be reluctant to waste my time in such a venture. On the other hand, I saw a Les Paul Custom in several pieces with no hardware on ebay the other day. I was absolutely stunned that the number of bids stood at 21 and the price was up to about $1,250. Had no idea that firewood fetched such princely sums. Good luck, whatever you do. That is hilarious! Almost fell off my chair!...The guitar stays on my mind, it is really beautiful and they way it was repaired you cant see a thing!
uriahsmusic Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 . A neck repair? . . Minor crack? . Big crack? . Broken neck or headstock? If it was a good repair job on - - a minor crack repair I would expect it to be devalued somewhat against the regular "going" price for the same guitar in similar condition with no neck repair. - a big crack, broken neck or broken headstock I would expect it to be devalued by 50% or so against the regular "going" price for the same guitar in similar condition with no neck repair. Doesn't matter who repaired it. In the case of the guitar on your other thread, looking at completed listings on fleaBay, $1500 is in the 50% off ballpark, if you're willing. I would play it first and see if the repair is stable and the guitar stays in tune. . It was a break at the headstock!...It plays like a dream...but if 50% off is the convention then by buying it, I would be at the guitars limit! Great answer! thanks.
j45nick Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 It was a break at the headstock!...It plays like a dream...but if 50% off is the convention then by buying it, I would be at the guitars limit! Great answer! thanks. As reported, a headstock break and repair, no matter how skillfully done, devalues a guitar by about 50%. As an experienced buyer, I would never offer more than that for such a guitar.
uriahsmusic Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 As reported, a headstock break and repair, no matter how skillfully done, devalues a guitar by about 50%. As an experienced buyer, I would never offer more than that for such a guitar. I constantly buy and sell, but this guy is asking 1500 which is the limit on this guitar. Thanx, I needed another buyer to chime in. Every one has been really helpful.
Al Watsky Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I think minus 35% to 50% all based on the rarity and playability of the instrument and the quality of the repair. For some factory run thing 50% for sure. In my estimation the numbers change for rare vintage things that have been perfectly repaired. In the real world of actual vintage violins for example head stocks are often grafted to new necks. Common practice for MANY 18th century instruments. Such instruments sell for hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. People fake neck grafts to make the instruments look older and more desirable. The guitar market is immature and has not taken into account the recent advances in repair techniques. IMO-YMMV
j45nick Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 I think minus 35% to 50% all based on the rarity and playability of the instrument and the quality of the repair. For some factory run thing 50% for sure. In my estimation the numbers change for rare vintage things that have been perfectly repaired. In the real world of actual vintage violins for example head stocks are often grafted to new necks. Common practice for MANY 18th century instruments. Such instruments sell for hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. People fake neck grafts to make the instruments look older and more desirable. The guitar market is immature and has not taken into account the recent advances in repair techniques. IMO-YMMV Since there are plenty of guitars WITHOUT headstock repairs--even vintage guitars--no one is or should be willing to pay top dollar for a guitar with a major neck repair. That's very different from a vintage violin or other bowed instrument, which may be so rare that it has a high price despite the repair. For all except the rarest of guitars, there are usually un-repaired alternative instruments available. They will always bring more money. It has nothing to do with the "maturity" of the market; it has everything to do with having plenty of un-repaired alternatives. For a newer guitar that is still in production, like an ES 335, there is no reason to pay more than 50% of the value of a comparable, non-repaired guitar.
sok66 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 A neck with a well repaired headstock break can be stronger than the original. However, I'd agree that it will devalue the guitar about 50%. Case by case, of course. These guitars can make great players and they can often be snapped up at bargain basement prices. Just remember you have a player, not an investment.
badbluesplayer Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 50% tops. The guitar loses 30% of its value right out of the box, so you can get an almost new one for 70% of the street price.
uriahsmusic Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 A neck with a well repaired headstock break can be stronger than the original. However, I'd agree that it will devalue the guitar about 50%. Case by case, of course. These guitars can make great players and they can often be snapped up at bargain basement prices. Just remember you have a player, not an investment. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Guest EastEnder Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! A certain excitability prevails...
Al Watsky Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Since there are plenty of guitars WITHOUT headstock repairs--even vintage guitars--no one is or should be willing to pay top dollar for a guitar with a major neck repair. That's very different from a vintage violin or other bowed instrument, which may be so rare that it has a high price despite the repair. For all except the rarest of guitars, there are usually un-repaired alternative instruments available. They will always bring more money. It has nothing to do with the "maturity" of the market; it has everything to do with having plenty of un-repaired alternatives. For a newer guitar that is still in production, like an ES 335, there is no reason to pay more than 50% of the value of a comparable, non-repaired guitar. Factory stuff is factory stuff. I like your take on it. But I think it does have to do with the mind set of the buyers for guitars to some degree. You couldn't sell the best guitar in the world if it had a crack. Buyers are very shy in the guitar market. No reason to buy a broken guitar no matter how well repaired for the same $$ as an unbroken one if the instrument is available. Common sense. I don't buy the 50% thing though. Thats just not right. 25-35% , a chubby retail margin , but not 50%. Hell , we're talkin' about Gibson guitars right ? I pretty much try to only buy 3 piece maple necked Gibsons.
uriahsmusic Posted February 25, 2012 Author Posted February 25, 2012 I pretty much try to only buy 3 piece maple necked Gibsons. Interesting point that I was not aware of! Which Gibson hollow bodies or semi hollow have 3 piece necks?
sok66 Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Interesting point that I was not aware of! Which Gibson hollow bodies or semi hollow have 3 piece necks? Norlin Gibson started using 3-piece mahogany necks in '69, following years of two and three piece maple necks on their higher end archtops. It was really done more for economic reasons, that is, they found it was far less expensive to source smaller wood stocks than the larger planks needed for one piece necks, even when factoring in the laminating process. (Same reasoning they used when going to pancake bodes on the Les Pauls, which were actually laminated SG blanks.) They also reduced the peg head angle, and added a "volute", a raised section right at the weak spot to try and strengthen the neck. These changes were not well received by players and in the end didn't make the necks significantly stronger in a drop than the older style, which was restored in the 80s IIRC.
Al Watsky Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Norlin Gibson started using 3-piece mahogany necks in '69, following years of two and three piece maple necks on their higher end archtops. It was really done more for economic reasons, that is, they found it was far less expensive to source smaller wood stocks than the larger planks needed for one piece necks, even when factoring in the laminating process. (Same reasoning they used when going to pancake bodes on the Les Pauls, which were actually laminated SG blanks.) They also reduced the peg head angle, and added a "volute", a raised section right at the weak spot to try and strengthen the neck. These changes were not well received by players and in the end didn't make the necks significantly stronger in a drop than the older style, which was restored in the 80s IIRC. I think the 3 piece maple is stronger than the Mahogany , they can still break its true, but by golly it would seem the have less of a tendency to break. No science just personal statistics. In over 20 years I've done dozens of one piece Mahog. headstock cracks and only two 3 piece maple. I love Gibson guitars. You just need to be careful with those one piece necks IMO. :mellow: Part of the flaw in my independent "study" is that there are less maple Gibsons out there. BTW, HoRo's mostly come with 3 piece maple. The one I have is orientated this way, 2 outer segments are sawn on the quarter and the center is just off flat sawn, its actually what we call skew sawn. Its real stable and on a bench flex test proves to be generally more rigid than most , especially in the area of the headstock. Lets just remember that neck wood species also directly effects tone. So builders need to stick to the wood "formula" to get the tone and balance their customers expect. Like we used to say down in Rural Retreat , "that boy could tear up a tire iron". Some folks haven't learned how to handle musical instruments. Don't drop your guitar !
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