bobouz Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Elmer - Since you have become dissatisfied with this instrument, I would consider the following possibilities: - Confirm whether or not you have the option to do a full money back return. If so, be sure to keep that door open while looking at other scenarios. Overall, you may be better off resuming your search. - Ask to have another ES-175 sent for you to examine and swap with your current guitar, if you approve. Very carefully compare your current guitar to any replacement that is offered. - You may find that the one you have now is a superior instrument to an offered replacement in tone, playability, etc. If you prefer your current instrument, decide whether or not you'd keep it if a substantial discount were offered. - Pursue having Gibson cover the cost of repair on your current instrument. Hope it works out well in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Elmer, that's a beautiful guitar. But there are many beautiful Gibsons! If you aren't happy with those cracks now, your unhappiness will only grow later. I have to agree with Bigkahune, those cracks appear to be the result of the guitar being in low humidity long enough that the neck wood dried & shrunk. As the neck wood shrunk (we're probably talking hundreths of an inch), the binding pulled inward, pressing on those metal fret ends, and the binding cracked. People will argue that humidity doesn't matter for electric guitars, only acoustics, but there's proof that's not true. I keep my instruments in a room with a humidifier running during the winter, and aim for at least 40% humidity. Then in summer, it's a battle the other way, not to let them get too damp as the humidity hits 70% or highter. Anyway, I hope you get the outcome you desire. You shouldn't have to settle for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock and Reel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm curious as to why we haven't heard from the Gibson folks that regularly respond here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 FWIW, I don't think this is a QC issue or finish flaw. If a guitar isn't kept in a proper environment, the manufacturer can't be held responsible for something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunburst PB Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I can say that my ES 355 does not have those cracks in the neck binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock and Reel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 FWIW, I don't think this is a QC issue or finish flaw. If a guitar isn't kept in a proper environment, the manufacturer can't be held responsible for something like this. I respectfully disagree. I have a few Martin instruments, of varying ages, with bound necks and I've never had the problem with them. Additionally, my guitar room stays at 70° and 50% RH all year. Only one of my Gibson's have the cracks. Whether Gibson can be held responsible isn't the question. The question is should a guitar with a retail price of $11,009.00 have any avoidable imperfections. My contention is that they must be avoidable or every instrument would exhibit the same flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I respectfully disagree. I have a few Martin instruments, of varying ages, with bound necks and I've never had the problem with them. Additionally, my guitar room stays at 70° and 50% RH all year. Only one of my Gibson's have the cracks. Whether Gibson can be held responsible isn't the question. The question is should a guitar with a retail price of $11,009.00 have any avoidable imperfections. My contention is that they must be avoidable or every instrument would exhibit the same flaws. Every guitar is unique, as no two pieces of wood are the same. Every guitar can react to the same set of conditions differently. Just because one reached a point where the pressure of fret ends caused binding to crack doesn't mean all guitars in the same environment will experience the same thing. Now, how much tolerance a guitar should be able to handle before something cracks - that's another story. You may contend that if some guitars can endure this, than they all should be made to do so. We'd all hope that a guitar costing $11K will be more tolerant than a $500 import, but the opposite could very well be the case. Martin's "Care and Feeding" booklet talks about humidity in detail and some of the problems that excesses can cause. They do not warranty damage caused by humidity, and I seriously doubt Gibson does either. In the case of the fret ends, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to trim them in such a way during manufacture so that there's less chance of them cracking the binding. But I doubt they give to much thought to this when they build them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock and Reel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I doubt they give to much thought to this when they build them. I think you just made my point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think you just made my point for me. Yup, I understand where you're coming from. If these guitars are kept in a proper humidity range, they should be fine. But over the life of an instrument, there are times when we can't control the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinyBabyBrandon Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yep, I have the same deal on my 1960 50th anniversary 335, also a 2010. I got mine at a really discounted rate and it's perfect beyond that. I can't feel mine at all, it's purely aesthetic, but if it bugs you definitely take it back, for me, I'm cool with it. Its a guitar and it's not going to be perfect forever or ever I suppose in these examples, but if it plays great, inspires you and makes you want to improve your playing and your writing, keep it. I would wager to bet that many of the most notorious guitars of all time were not perfect. Take EC's beano les paul, the top is not correctly matched. It's one of the most hallowed guitars in the annals of guitardom, and what if Clapton would've been like, nah, tops screwy, forget this guitar. Its still is a great guitar. It was still capable of propelling THE ultimate classic rock and roll and blues sound of all time into history! And just because of an aesthetic imperfection, I guarantee that many members of this board would say, "SEND IT BACK!" Just my opinion, but its all about what you put into the guitar and not obsessing over small imperfections. If it really bothers you and is going ot hold you back fine, but if not, just own it. someday they might be reproducing those imperfections on your classic, hallowed signature guitar and all the dudes on this message board will be drooling over their fret cracks because it's just like the original. It's all in the eye of the beholder. By the way see my cracks on the Everything you wanted to know about the 1960 Es-335 anniversary but were afraid to ask thread. Keep playin'! -Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yep, I have the same deal on my 1960 50th anniversary 335, also a 2010. I got mine at a really discounted rate and it's perfect beyond that. I can't feel mine at all, it's purely aesthetic, but if it bugs you definitely take it back, for me, I'm cool with it. Its a guitar and it's not going to be perfect forever or ever I suppose in these examples, but if it plays great, inspires you and makes you want to improve your playing and your writing, keep it. I would wager to bet that many of the most notorious guitars of all time were not perfect. Take EC's beano les paul, the top is not correctly matched. It's one of the most hallowed guitars in the annals of guitardom, and what if Clapton would've been like, nah, tops screwy, forget this guitar. Its still is a great guitar. It was still capable of propelling THE ultimate classic rock and roll and blues sound of all time into history! And just because of an aesthetic imperfection, I guarantee that many members of this board would say, "SEND IT BACK!" Just my opinion, but its all about what you put into the guitar and not obsessing over small imperfections. If it really bothers you and is going ot hold you back fine, but if not, just own it. someday they might be reproducing those imperfections on your classic, hallowed signature guitar and all the dudes on this message board will be drooling over their fret cracks because it's just like the original. It's all in the eye of the beholder. By the way see my cracks on the Everything you wanted to know about the 1960 Es-335 anniversary but were afraid to ask thread. Keep playin'! -Brandon I agree on that. It is not the looks of the cracks that bother me, it is the "what if they crack further and things fall off"? Or what if the fredboard start realy moving because it was not dry enough when the guitare was build. If someone can tell me that is fantasy and never 100% never will happen because of the little cracks...then I keep it. It is just it makes me unsure. But at this moment..JEEEE this plays soo good, if it stay's this way I never will give it away anymore. I really hope I can get possitive reaction on this, something like: this guitare will only starts sounding better and the cracks will be like they are now and never going to be of any invloence of the layability and sound...catch my drift... I start looking at it as a girl with freckles, not perfect skin maybe but I find it very attractive. There are not many Gibson ES-175 naturals in Belgium (Sunburst you can find them more, not the natural ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBlues Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 but seriously, I have these exact same cracks on my 02 ES-137, they have remained exactly the same for the past 5 or 6 years... they have not gotten worse... Certainly doesn't bother me, but if you want to occupy your time fretting over the cracks, so be it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosquito3 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Same here. I've these cracks on my 1989 Les Paul Custom too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBooka Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 My ES165 had the same thing when I bought it (used) in march of 2010. Within a couple of weeks at home it was barely noticable and during the summer it is even better. That said I did oil the fingerboard as soon as I bought the guitar as it was bone dry. You can only tell they are there because of the dirt that worked its way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 My ES165 had the same thing when I bought it (used) in march of 2010. Within a couple of weeks at home it was barely noticable and during the summer it is even better. That said I did oil the fingerboard as soon as I bought the guitar as it was bone dry. You can only tell they are there because of the dirt that worked its way in. This one is bone dry as well...it has a white-ish colour of dryness (bad Englisch but u know what I mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinyBabyBrandon Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This one is bone dry as well...it has a white-ish colour of dryness (bad Englisch but u know what I mean) Hey Elmer what ended up happening? Did you take 'er back or decide to keep her? If you still have the guitar and haven't done so yet, oil up that board! Get some lemon oil and rub that wood down! (So much of this could be taken the wrong way if read out of context) Let us know how its doing and if you do get a new 175 don't forget the pics! In the meantime keep playing my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have a few 65+ year old Gibsons and they do not have the binding cracks. These are guitars that were in shipping containers from the hottest desert to subfreezng areas. For a new guitar, it's a shame it would have crack binding. Do you have authorized Gibson repair shops where you live? As others mentioned, it is considered a manufacturing defect. Hope you get a new one in exchange! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Do you have authorized Gibson repair shops where you live? As others mentioned, it is considered a manufacturing defect. Per Gibson's warranty language, finish issue are specifically not covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Per Gibson's warranty language, finish issue are specifically not covered. It depends on what caused the issue. While I haven't seen the small fret end finish cracks covered, I have seen finish cracks and joint cracks along the binding/neck/fretboard seam covered due to improperly dried wood. I've seen this issue come up here several times on guitars built since the 2009. First Gibson got raided in 2009 and wood was confiscated, then after the Nashville flood in 2010 and resulting damage Gibson was trying to catch up on wood inventories and production schedules; and then in 2011 another raid with more wood stock confiscated. Draw your own conclusions. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 It depends on what caused the issue. While I haven't seen the small fret end finish cracks covered, I have seen finish cracks and joint cracks along the binding/neck/fretboard seam covered due to improperly dried wood. That's encouraging to hear. I'm currently in the process of having my '07 LP Special (faded double cut) assessed under warranty for a glue joint that has separated in the body, near the end pin. There is also what appears to be some finish separation around the neck joint, but the neck angle remains stable - so my primary concern is the body issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtjazz Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is the first time posting to this forum. I've been reading it for quite sometime and have learned a lot. Thanks! I bought an ES 137 Classic, in blue burst, about a year ago on Ebay, risky I know, but for the most part I think I got lucky. The guitar was made in 2006 in Memphis. I really don't think it had been played much before as the finish is absolutely flawless, the pick guard doesn't even have a scratch. I took it to a local luthier for a setup. He went over everything a set up entails and installed a set of flat wound 11's. I absolutely love the tone of this guitar and I'm sure I haven't come close to knowing what this guitar can do. The other day, after reading posts about cracks in the fret board binding, I really gave it a good look under a really bright light and to my surprise there they were, small cracks at about two thirds of the frets. They don't effect the playability of the guitar, I can't feel them and probably wouldn't notice them at all if I hadn't looked so closely. None the less, this is very disappointing to me. My fear is over time they will get worse and the small sections of binding will fall out. This seems to a rather wide spread problem with Gibson guitars. I think if I ever buy another guitar I may reconsider buying another Gibson. I've always dreamed of owning and playing a Gibson because of their quality and sound. I really love this guitar, I hope it doesn't fall apart on me. Disappointing. Would really be nice to hear something from Gibson addressing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is the first time posting to this forum. I've been reading it for quite sometime and have learned a lot. Thanks! I bought an ES 137 Classic, in blue burst, about a year ago on Ebay, risky I know, but for the most part I think I got lucky. The guitar was made in 2006 in Memphis. I really don't think it had been played much before as the finish is absolutely flawless, the pick guard doesn't even have a scratch. I took it to a local luthier for a setup. He went over everything a set up entails and installed a set of flat wound 11's. I absolutely love the tone of this guitar and I'm sure I haven't come close to knowing what this guitar can do. The other day, after reading posts about cracks in the fret board binding, I really gave it a good look under a really bright light and to my surprise there they were, small cracks at about two thirds of the frets. They don't effect the playability of the guitar, I can't feel them and probably wouldn't notice them at all if I hadn't looked so closely. None the less, this is very disappointing to me. My fear is over time they will get worse and the small sections of binding will fall out. This seems to a rather wide spread problem with Gibson guitars. I think if I ever buy another guitar I may reconsider buying another Gibson. I've always dreamed of owning and playing a Gibson because of their quality and sound. I really love this guitar, I hope it doesn't fall apart on me. Disappointing. Would really be nice to hear something from Gibson addressing this. Welcome to the cracked binding club, large and growing. I've seen a lot of posts on here concerning cracked binding (fretboard and otherwise), but have not seen one response from the Gibson Service Team. Even if you had warranty coverage, I doubt that it would help. But fear not, your guitar will probably not fall apart. As for thinking twice about buying Gibson again, I think many quietly express such sentiments, but there's just something irresistible about the brand (especially for us nostalgic old timers). Having said that, I've been looking at Collings lately. Respectable alternatives to The Big G do exist. EE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBooka Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It depends on what caused the issue. While I haven't seen the small fret end finish cracks covered, I have seen finish cracks and joint cracks along the binding/neck/fretboard seam covered due to improperly dried wood. I've seen this issue come up here several times on guitars built since the 2009. First Gibson got raided in 2009 and wood was confiscated, then after the Nashville flood in 2010 and resulting damage Gibson was trying to catch up on wood inventories and production schedules; and then in 2011 another raid with more wood stock confiscated. Draw your own conclusions. . Mine is a 1996.. I cant draw conclusions but maybe I can colour them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilford Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 My 2008 Memphis es-335 is flawless along the fretboard. Not a single crack. This must be a very recent phenomenon. Maybe it is like those early iphone 3gs that developed cracks after a short while of use. Maybe just a bad batch of binding material. Seemingly many new Memphis Gibsons have displayed similar cracks in the past few years. Don't know if it's isolated to a particular period of manufacture or plant, but my Midtown Custom produced in Nashville late last year is clean as a whistle. Regardless, this will not impact the instrument's structural integrity. Enjoy your beautiful new guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 My 2008 Memphis es-335 is flawless along the fretboard. Not a single crack. This must be a very recent phenomenon. Maybe it is like those early iphone 3gs that developed cracks after a short while of use. Maybe just a bad batch of binding material. Yes, my own three Memphis built instruments are also fine. Interestingly, many 2010 models have been reported as having problems, but my 2010 ES-330L is holding up well so far. There doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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