Was / is Aria an official Gibson copier?

[Elmer]

I bought this Aria pro II in the mid eighties. A friend of mine told me yesterday that Aria was alowed to make Gibsom copies but at a certain point in the mid eighties had to stop because they start making better guitars than the original. That was when they where made in Japan, now Aria's are made in Korea.

Is that true? I can believe it, that Aria of mine is perfect (no cracks at the frets...if u saw my post about that u know what I mean :) )

I don't see a sub category here, only Epiphone. Is or was Aria a brand that under supervision of Gibson was copying guitars or not?

 

[rct]

No, Aria was not "allowed" to make Gibson copies. And no, nobody is told to stop because their copies are better than the original.

 

rct

[Guest farnsbarns]

I believe Aria was part of the law suit in which Gibson failed to stop stop other manufacturers from making LP shaped guitars but did manage to stop them using the open book/moustache shaped head stock.

[Elmer]

I believe Aria was part of the law suit in which Gibson failed to stop stop other manufacturers from making LP shaped guitars but did manage to stop them using the open book/moustache shaped head stock.

 

Aha, the moustache ... ( I feel a shame...I realy bumbed that head against the ceiling)

[Guest farnsbarns]

Aha, the moustache ... ( I feel a shame...I realy bumbed that head against the ceiling)

 

I can tell you that in 90/91 Alan Parsons told me the Aria pro II was a bloody good guitar in the context of discussing cheaper guitars suitable for me at that time (I was 15).

 

Edit: I used all the wisdom I had accrued at 15, ignored him and bought an epi SG.

[duane v]

Most companies copy or have copied Gibson at one time

[Vega1]

A friend of mine told me yesterday that Aria was alowed to make Gibsom copies but at a certain point in the mid eighties had to stop because they start making better guitars than the original.

 

That sounds like an urban legend started by an Aria owner or a Gibson hater.

[milod]

The 70s did have some awfully good imports that were direct copies of Gibsons, apparently all from the upgrading Japanese factories.

 

Even with different branding on the headstock, etc., the lawsuit was "patent infringement" due to a copy of look rather than questions of quality. OTOH, at the time, the word I was hearing was that Gibson had begun producing crud for the price tags, and that Ibanez and others were producing "the same guitars for less money."

 

In ways, they were.

 

As for Aria and some other brands, I think after the 1950s all guitar marques have had some ups and downs with quality for a number of reasons. Overall, though, I think the guitar value per dollar today is far, far higher than it was in the 50s and 60s.

 

As overall for "copies," hey, let's face it. For all intents, most guitars made and sold today, acoustic or electric, are copies of Gibson, Martin and Fender originals. If they don't look exactly the same, the concept certainly is a copy.

 

m

[krock]

Loads of companies were churning out exact replica's of gibsons, a few well known ones are ibanez, tokai, orville and edwards

[rct]

Loads of companies were churning out exact replica's of gibsons, a few well known ones are ibanez, tokai, orville and edwards

 

Orville not a copy, it's a Gibson to be sold outside of the U! S! A!

 

rct

[cookieman15061]

I bought this back in 79. A japan Electra Les Paul. It had sound effects modules that plugged into the back of the guitar and was controlled by the row of toggle switches. It was a war horse and ended up being my backup axe until 94 or so. Heavy sucker too. Took everything my son had to hold it up for a few seconds while I snapped this.

 

[surfpup]

Loads of companies were churning out exact replica's of gibsons, a few well known ones are ibanez, tokai, orville and edwards

 

Don't forget Greco and Burny

[Riffster]

Looks like the 60's was the last decade for new original models in general, a lot of companies that were making their own designs had to start making Gibson copies to stay afloat and still a lot didn't make it. The fact that Gibson started going downhill helped a lot.

 

Frankly I have grabbed a couple of the so-called (true lawsuit era) guitars and they are very OK, if they were killer guitars they'd be commanding good money but they aren't and when they do it is mostly nostalgia.

[milod]

I'd say the Ibanez examples were of apparent Gibson quality overall, at least in the mid 1970s. I can't speak for other companies.

 

Part of the problem is that Gibson at the time had a rep of not being up to Gibson quality - and not with a bunch of growlers, but just about everyone you'd talk to.

 

The Japanese guitar industry - as other segments of their manufacturing - were making the shift back to the kind of quality they were capable of before WWII. Their better quality "patent infringement" guitars, at any rate, were excellent examples as they raised brand awareness by showing they could do as well as established firms.

 

Ditto some of the now-forgotten brands of the 1970s that similarly were literally a new birth of quality instrument manufacturing after WWII.

 

Japanese technology, btw, had been quite high prior to WWII, but frequently was very different in concept from that seen in Europe or the US. In that sense, although their navy, for example, was in many ways a copy of the Brit navy, the tactical and strategic concepts were very definitely home grown. As with the Germans, their tech advantages were lost actually long before the end of WWII in spite of valiant efforts to the contrary... and then losses of factories.

 

As for "value," of older guitars from that era... Yeah, but it's more a matter of brand perception. Ibanez doesn't carry the cachet of the name "Gibson" regardless of quality or condition.

 

m

[brundaddy]

Aria was good enough for Bill Haley, so if I see the right one, I'll buy it.

[Elmer]

Aria was good enough for Bill Haley, so if I see the right one, I'll buy it.

 

To be honest...today I played on my Aria again and I must say...I like it better than my ES175...going to bring the ES175 back to the store and exchange it for a GIBSON ES359 VINTAGE SUNBURST with golden hardware.

But I certainly going to look and snif and feel and play whole afternoon in that store ...untill the salesman start grumbling...I never buy a cat in a sack anymore! (but that last bit is off topic).

[Kelvinator]

I had a couple of Arias in the 80's - a neck-through Tri-Sound Thor Bass and an Integra Bass; they were both very nice instruments, excellent quality, played and sounded great. I did have to laugh at the printing on the headstock though: "Original Custom Body Pat #....." The company known for copies didn't want anyone copying.

[NightTimeConcealmentX91]

comment deleted

[RaysEpiphone]

I had an Aria Pro II acoustic back in the 1980's, not a bad guitar...not no where near a Gibson but not bad.

[TommyK]

I think you're mixing two histories. Epiphone and Orville.

 

When Norlin took Epiphone production out of K'zoo to Japan in 1971, they contracted production by Matsumokuo of Japan, who made other brands, but their 'house' brand was Aria. Matsumoku Epiphones were essentially re-branded Arias. For the first 6 months or so the model numbers are four digit numbers vis: 6270. Model nomenclature was changed to mimmick historic Epiphones, beginning with the "FT" prefix. These were still re-branded Arias. Only the headstock shapes were changed. They started with acoustics only, then later added electrics. In about 1980 most Epiphone production was moved to Korea.

 

Here is one version of the Orville Guitar by Gibsonhistory.

[milod]

The late 60s, 70s and 80s were "interesting" for music manufacturers. Asia was doing a pretty good job of producing lower-end instruments and in the US there was a lot of corporate change that didn't necessarily do well at least for the PR of Fender and Gibson.

 

Univox had other problems, not really because of "copies" of other guitars. The corporation itself apparently was pretty much messed up through various changes. OTOH, they made some pretty decent stuff. I still have my analog Univox drum machine from the late 60s-early 70s that frankly works better on stage than anything digital I've seen - at least from the control standpoint. It sounds pretty "machinelike," but one can whip between types of beat and speed very easily and quickly for a duo operation. You'll occasionally see one on Ebay at varying price tags 'cuz they're almost bulletproof, IMHO.

 

As for liking some sorts and shapes of guitars and not others...

 

The ES175 and its 1970s Ibanez copies is to me just about the ideal guitar. Period. OTOH, if you were brought up pickin' a solidbody or even a thin hollow, I can see how it may not be such a great feeling instrument. I started acoustic, so I think that plays a big role in my personal opinion.

 

m

[TommyK]

I think the 70's and 80's were plenty hard on most US manufacturers. We were being flooded with Japanese product that were no longer 'gyppy Japanese'. These guys were starting to produce the sock off'n us and US manufacturers didn't know how to react, then subsequently lost huge market share. There were high protective tariffs.... going both ways, embargoes and fuel shortages. Remember fuel shortages, and standing in line at the gas station? It wasn't pretty. The auto industry, music instrument industry, electronics industry, well most industries took a hard hit. Many brands vanished or went over seas. There is not one television set or other electronic consumer item built in the states. RCA, Zenith, Sylvania... all gone.