RobinTheHood Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 VINTAGE OLD BARN FIND GIBSON 335 DOT? EPIPHONE? ELECTRIC GUITAR NEEDS RESTORING That is the headline. This guitar is all kinds of messed up. The seller claims that he doesnt know what it is and that he has had "experts" tell him its an old vintage Gibson 335. Um, no. Its a Dot. This guitar seriously looks like it sat under a compost pile for ten years. The bidding is up to 11 people and $112 GBP because people are under the impression that it is a collectible instrument. This guitar is not collectible and is clearly an Epiphone Dot. I emailed the guy last week and didnt get a response. Please take a look at this listing and consider emailing the seller before someone gets ripped off. Maybe with enough emails confirming the worthlessness of this guitar, he will pull the listing. Thanks! http://www.ebay.com/...=item20c2f1fa03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Look at the question and response at the bottom of the listing. Don't think that it could be more obvious that the question is "staged", put in by the seller or a friend, to give the item more legitimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah this is pretty shady. I wonder if contacting ebay would do any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Blatant rip-off, the listing should be pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 God, what did that guy do to that poor Dot? Bury it in his yard for 2 years? That's not even a good 'relic' job, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Blatant rip-off, the listing should be pulled. My thoughts exactly. I'll look in to reporting it in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Or.... Tell him it appears to be the guitar you had stolen at Glastonbury and you've had it listed with the local authorities for XX years and your solicitor will be in contact shortly to notify him about a pickup time. Make sure to thank him very much for finding it and that a large reward will be provided upon verification. That should do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-M Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wow! I know there's one born every minute but the seller must be totally without conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBo42 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Reporting this ****** at the moment. I suggest anyone here with an ebay account does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm going to be the odd man out here. The seller says he doesn't know what it is, and clearly says it could be an Epiphone. He doesn't appear to be a guitar expert based on the other items he is selling, so he may really not know. This guitar is broken, rotted, covered in mud, and major parts are missing. I would think only people who are very knowledgable about guitar restoration would go anywhere near this, and they should know it's not a Gibson. Also, I don't know anything about this Glasonbury festival. Is it possible that a famous musician actually broke this guitar at the festival and that's why people are bidding it up? The seller is going a over board with the salesmanship, and I don't like it, but I guess I don't see it as a clear case of deception that warrants eBay pulling the ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm going to be the odd man out here. The seller says he doesn't know what it is, and clearly says it could be an Epiphone. He doesn't appear to be a guitar expert based on the other items he is selling, so he may really not know. This guitar is broken, rotted, covered in mud, and major parts are missing. I would think only people who are very knowledgable about guitar restoration would go anywhere near this, and they should know it's not a Gibson. Also, I don't know anything about this Glasonbury festival. Is it possible that a famous musician actually broke this guitar at the festival and that's why people are bidding it up? The seller is going a over board with the salesmanship, but I guess I don't see it as a clear case of deception that warrants eBay pulling the ad. I understand what you are saying, but part of the problem I have with this listing is that he says some guitar "experts" say it is a vintage Gibson, which is clearly a load of crap. There isnt a guitar expert of the planet that would claim that thing to be a Gibson. That guitar is so incredibly verifiable as an Epiphone that there is no excuse to have it listed as being unknown. I told him to call Gibson/Epiphone to have them verify it because the indentifiable characteristics of this guitar are well within the scope of any Epiphone customer service rep. Thats how obvious this guitar is. People who are knowledgable about guitar restoration and Gibsons wouldnt touch this thing. Only some unwitting and unknowledgable person that thinks he's getting a piece of guitar history is going to buy this. The deception comes in where real experts told him it was an Epiphone and he ignored their assemssment and listed it anyway. He even eluded to the fact that he listed it once and pulled it until he got another opinion on its origin. I've already explained to him the differences in truss covers and heard nothing from him. I'm also pretty certain that the backs of those pickups will say "Epiphone" on them, or at least have epiphone model numbers for Alnico Classics. And the pickguard is clearly Epiphone as well. There isnt anything tricky about ID'ing this guitar. Its pretty straight forward. I totally agree with Steve-M. This man has no conscience. He knows its not a Gibson or even vintage for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eor Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 he never thought to read the label inside? the photography clearly avoids looking in the f hole on the label side. also, the ears aren't the "correct" gibson shape, are they? they look epiphone-y from the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 here is the very well known artist smashing this very rare old guitar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7C Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The guy from The Cribs (forgot his name) threw his Epi Dot into the crowd at Glastonbury last year or the year before - looked similar in colour to this one. Normally he plays a Gibson but for some reason he had switched to an Epiphone for the song just before it got launched crowd-wards!?!? Could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SketchyEtchy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Haha weird saw that yesterday, was gonna post it on here but forgot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The seller is going a over board with the salesmanship, and I don't like it, but I guess I don't see it as a clear case of deception that warrants eBay pulling the ad. I agree that it's somewhat debatable, but in the end, I don't see this as worthy of everyone's time to try and out the seller. I'd lay odds that all the bids are shill, and that no one is going to lose their retirement savings over this piece of junk. The Internet is a great equalizer that way. If that's not acceptable to the Epi Brethren, I'd suggest renaming this thread to match the seller's heading and insert other cues in the OP that will lead anyone with a browser to this site. Right now, if you paste "VINTAGE OLD BARN FIND GIBSON 335 DOT? EPIPHONE? ELECTRIC GUITAR NEEDS RESTORING" into Google, this thread comes up ahead of the listing. Ain't the web wonderful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 It is strange that the seller posted the first two pics when from the later photos it appears that the guitar actually cleans up pretty good. But I agree with a few others - the seller while certainly seeming a bit shady has not crossed the line. It does not take a Sherlock Holmes to figure out the guitar ain't a Gibson and if you are too lazy to do a bit of research - well ya know the saying about a fool and their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Caveat Emptor... Simple as that, really. I don't think ebay needs self-appointed policemen. The seller is British, and to be fair to ebay.co.uk, their site summarizes British legislation and applicable EU directives in this area quite well - with regard to trade descriptions and the sale of goods. I don't know whether the seller qualifies as a "business seller," but if he makes ebay his business (i.e. sells in volume for profit, as seems to be the case) there is no reason not to regard him as a sole trader, even if he does not have a limited company. http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/rights.html However, the seller quite clearly does not hold himself out to have any expertise regarding guitars or their value. He provides photos of this hunk of rotten wood and invites people to draw their own opinions. The statement about "some collectors are saying it is a very rare Gibson" is a bit dodgy - but it is ambiguous, not a statement upon which a potential buyer can or should rely. Maybe it's even true that a "collector" did say that (perhaps some know-nothing know-it-all told him that in a pub or something...) The Glastonbury Festival connection is just a classic piece of puffery - no provenance to back it up means that no wise buyer will place any value on these words when making a bid. Caveat Emptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 He also doesnt seem too interested in verifying this guitar. Its one thing to truly not know the facts, but to me, its an entirely shady business practice to refuse to verify this guitar with the hopes of a higher bid. The info has been presented to him. He refuses to act upon it. Caveat Emptor and all that but It doesnt mean that I like to see people get taken though. I guess honesty and looking out for others is a dying trait among humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 He also doesnt seem too interested in verifying this guitar. Its one thing to truly not know the facts, but to me, its an entirely shady business practice to refuse to verify this guitar with the hopes of a higher bid. The info has been presented to him. He refuses to act upon it. Caveat Emptor and all that but It doesnt mean that I like to see people get taken though. I guess honesty and looking out for others is a dying trait among humans. I understand that you were trying to follow the decent and honest course of action. Perhaps the problem is that ebay just makes people cynical and wary of each other? If the seller is genuinely ignorant of guitars and is just trying to get the best price he can, maybe he doesn't welcome unsolicited advice, however well-meaning? Similarly, if he is ignorant about guitars, how can he judge between good or bad advice? One "collector" has told him it's a Gibson, now another "expert" from 3500 miles away is emailing him out of the blue with an entirely different opinion. My only real complaint with this guy is that he has slightly over-cooked his ad. At the end of the day though, he's trying to make a few quid, so as long as he doesn't lie or deliberately mislead, I can't blame him for trying to up-sell his item. Also, this is not the type of sale that is going to unfairly dupe an innocent buyer. It's not like he is selling a superficially appealing instrument that actually has serious structural flaws. He's selling, well...a wreck... No-one is going to buy this as a birthday present for their kid who wants to learn to play, and then realize all too late that they've been sorely ripped off in the process! Any serious luthier who has the skills to restore something like this will also have the knowledge to see through this right away. And any collector of curios/memorabilia will be savvy enough to realize that a busted guitar with no reliable provenance as to whose it was has no value whatsoever. This isn't like Townshend's smashed Rickenbacker with archived footage, bits of serial number left on the wreckage, and a signed letter from the guitar tech. Instead, it's a hunk of scrap-wood of unknown provenance, apparently pulled out of a bog in Somerset. Who on earth would want to buy such a thing? I know I don't. Ultimately, though, the transfer of ownership is the business of the purchaser and seller, and their's alone... Maybe this makes me the token a$$hole in these circumstances.... But I suppose what I'm saying is that if, by some unlikely chance, I happened to be an expert mechanic, and walking past someone's driveway one day I saw a guy selling a lemon to someone who clearly didn't know what they were getting themselves into, I still wouldn't see it as my business to run over there and interfere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm slightly on the fence with this one. On the one hand, it's clearly a Dot, and it's hard to believe the seller doesn't have the wherewithal to figure this out. Interesting also that he's posted a question from someone saying it's a Gibson, but nothing that says otherwise, despite there being people on this thread who've contacted him. On the other hand, he's relisted with "possibly rare Gibson, possibly Epiphone" in the description so, whilst it's not how I'd want to do business, it does rather put the onus on the buyer to do their research and decide what this guitar is worth. Surely with an item such as this, it would be basic common sense to ask a few questions such as "what it it", "what would it be worth in good condition", and "how much would the major work that this guitar needs set me back" before bidding. Yet, there are higher bids on this than other Dots that are in perfect condition. I'm afraid Zombywoof's comment about the fool and their money is the one that rings truest in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, thats for sure. And there are certainly many varied opinions in this thread, which I welcome. I'm just having a hard time wrappng my head around the mindset of people like this guy. I think that the dishonesty would literally kill me. The only thing that made me decide to contact him in the first place was this bit from his listing: There is part of a word 'Dot...' on the broken neck .... any info is greatly appreciated. It seemed to me that he was honestly looking for info on this guitar. Apparently, he only wants selective info that leans in his favor. I guess that this is what got me going. Had he took my info and advice or at least contacted me back, I probably wouldnt have even posted it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think what this thread is REALLY showing is that the terms "lie" and "honesty" are becoming more and more different from one person to another than they once were. There used to be a line in the sand where everyone could agree something was dishonest, or a lie. The bar is much lower than it once was, but also, WHERE one person sets the bar can be very different from person to person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 How's this listing for honesty Oz style, LOL. eBay Listing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think what this thread is REALLY showing is that the terms "lie" and "honesty" are becoming more and more different from one person to another than they once were. There used to be a line in the sand where everyone could agree something was dishonest, or a lie. The bar is much lower than it once was, but also, WHERE one person sets the bar can be very different from person to person. I agree. And it bothers me. I am a very honest person and tend to hold others to my standards...which are usually very high. How's this listing for honesty Oz style, LOL. eBay Listing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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