first gibson, j45 tv

[ParlourMan]

Is the fretboard a single layer of Rosewood or two thinner strips? and same for bridge?

 

I see you say the bridge is single piece, this is good for you.

[ivano]

Is the fretboard a single layer of Rosewood or two thinner strips? and same for bridge?

 

I see you say the bridge is single piece, this is good for you.

 

Yes both are single peace.

Why do you ask me that? Is there any j45 tv with bridge or fretboard laminated around?

[ParlourMan]

Yes, some recent buyers have reported 2 pieces, this is due to concessions to the 'lacey act', you can research this on this site.

[ivano]

Wow, I've been lucky!

I thought there have been problems with brazilian rosewood not with the indian one.....good to know that, but I'm pretty sure I'll hold this guitar for a long time ahead ;-)

[ChrisA83]

Hello everybody!!!

Yessss!!!!!!

I'm a new gibson j45 tv owner!!!!!

After something like 30 years that I've been playing guitar finally I got my first Gibson!!!

...and as you can see I'm a bit exited ;-)

 

First of all I want to apologize for my bad english ( I'm italian and the italians usually can only speak a little bit of italian).

 

I tell you guys, this is the most beautiful guitar I've ever owned, it sounds really great....each time I pick it up it tooks at least a couple of hours till she lets me go to sleep ;-)

 

I would like to ask and share with you so many things that I decided to be a part of the forum.

 

Ivano

 

Congratulations! And welcome to the forum.

 

When anyone gets a new guitar we always like to see pictures

[bobby b]

Yes, some recent buyers have reported 2 pieces, this is due to concessions to the 'lacey act', you can research this on this site.

 

 

Noticed this pic on another post......sure looks like a 2 pc fretboard. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/83493-paige-capo/

 

 

FWIW.... My HB has a 2pc bridge....but I am not concerned in the slightest....as the guitar sounds fantastic.

 

Enjoy you new J45!! Post some pics.....

[E-minor7]

Hello everybody!!!

Yessss!!!!!!

I'm a new gibson j45 tv owner!!!!!

After something like 30 years that I've been playing guitar finally I got my first Gibson!!!

...and as you can see I'm a bit exited ;-)

Another welcome to another new 45'ist.

Be

happy –

you are lucky.

 

The exitement will continue, , , , you haven't heard the guitar yet. . . .

 

[ParlourMan]

I don't think the concerns over Lacey act guitars are to do with sound, I defy anyone to be able to identify a 2 piece bridge guitar, or 2 piece fretboard guitar from an audio clip. The effects will be purely in the 2nd hand market guitar, purists and traditionalists are out there in their droves and nothing chops a guitar price apart like the word 'laminate'. Of course there's laminate and there's laminate, nonetheless these will be viewed down the line as 'inferior' given the concessions in the build to accommodate the current situation.

 

Sad but true.....

 

Catch 22 situation, nobody thinks Gibson should halt production, but few think they should be paying 2-3k or more for a guitar with 'laminate' in the descriptor. Regardless of sound, people are buying the 'craft' here too and 2 piece parts are not charming the pants off a lot of potential buyers. Many have said already "I won't buy another one" and you only have to look at threads such as how many Gibson's do you own' to see a lot of people have an average of 3-5 Gibson's, some have many many more... many of these are the same people, so it's got to hurt sales at some point.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I don't think the concerns over Lacey act guitars are to do with sound, I defy anyone to be able to identify a 2 piece bridge guitar, or 2 piece fretboard guitar from an audio clip. The effects will be purely in the 2nd hand market guitar, purists and traditionalists are out there in their droves and nothing chops a guitar price apart like the word 'laminate'. Of course there's laminate and there's laminate, nonetheless these will be viewed down the line as 'inferior' given the concessions in the build to accommodate the current situation.

 

Sad but true.....

 

 

 

Luckily there are plenty of people who don't buy a guitar with thoughts that it's an investment of some kind.

While I take on board your comments PM, and you have made exactly the same comments now a number of times.. so I get the point by now.. you don't like it

that's fine, but to be using words like "inferior" obviously hits a nerve with myself.. being the owner of said Lacey Act HB TV.

 

And to jump in with the question of " What does your bridge and fret board look like" to a new member posting about his new J45 TV....well what can you say?

 

I just feel it's comments like these that ultimately do affect the perception of SOME people, and the comments are groundless.

 

I may have some bias in the issue for sure. But I have seriously thought about the matter and can honestly say.. It makes no difference what so ever to me. If I was going to buy a secondhand Gibson 20 years from now and I had 2 HB tv's or J45 tv's infront of me, one with a laminated board that sounded fantastic and one without that sounded crap.... which would I buy?

for me it's a no brainer.

 

I actually AB'd my HB with three other Gibsons in the store before I took it home... A Brad Paisley, a HB standard and a Dove.. you can read my original post... but the guitar I purchased blew the other 3 away, no exaggeration. I don't particularly care how or what my guitars are made out of if they sound that good.

You are correct.. for some people this issue will affect their decisions on buying a secondhand Gibson in the future.. and some of that will because of posts like yours PM. If i hadn't had the experience of owning one then I may have had reservations also.. so i guess i'm lucky.

 

At the end of the day in 10 or 20 or 30 years just how much will this issue affect the cost of a secondhand Gibson? You talk about the price being " chopped apart" what are you talking about?

A post was made stating and showing a war era Gibson where this type of thing had been done before.. and there is NO affect to the desirability of said guitars.

 

And lets say feckin Market Forces do determine the sell on value of these guitars... what are we talking in you opinion.. I know you work in finance

 

a couple hundred euro? more?

 

I bought my HB TV just over 6 months ago.. I paid 2500 euro... you want a new one now in Europe.. 3200 Euro... it seems to me these are pretty rare beasts already.. and I was trying to source a new one for a LONG time if you remember.

 

So if I do ever need to sell the guitar..and I will only ever do this if I need the money.. not to go on to buy something else I'm not worried. A Ren era HB TV lacey act or not.. will bring me a decent return.. and I will have had the pleasure of owning and playing an amazing instrument.

 

Thanks

 

edit and if you want to read some real information about the word ' laminate' and necks.. read the paddle cut thread and in particular Hogeyes input

[brannon67]

Umm....you might be wrong in this case

Why is that?

[Morkolo]

Luckily there are plenty of people who don't buy a guitar with thoughts that it's an investment of some kind.

While I take on board your comments PM, and you have made exactly the same comments now a number of times.. so I get the point by now.. you don't like it

that's fine, but to be using words like "inferior" obviously hits a nerve with myself.. being the owner of said Lacey Act HB TV.

 

And to jump in with the question of " What does your bridge and fret board look like" to a new member posting about his new J45 TV....well what can you say?

 

I just feel it's comments like these that ultimately do affect the perception of SOME people, and the comments are groundless.

 

I may have some bias in the issue for sure. But I have seriously thought about the matter and can honestly say.. It makes no difference what so ever to me. If I was going to buy a secondhand Gibson 20 years from now and I had 2 HB tv's or J45 tv's infront of me, one with a laminated board that sounded fantastic and one without that sounded crap.... which would I buy?

for me it's a no brainer.

 

I actually AB'd my HB with three other Gibsons in the store before I took it home... A Brad Paisley, a HB standard and a Dove.. you can read my original post... but the guitar I purchased blew the other 3 away, no exaggeration. I don't particularly care how or what my guitars are made out of if they sound that good.

You are correct.. for some people this issue will affect their decisions on buying a secondhand Gibson in the future.. and some of that will because of posts like yours PM. If i hadn't had the experience of owning one then I may have had reservations also.. so i guess i'm lucky.

 

At the end of the day in 10 or 20 or 30 years just how much will this issue affect the cost of a secondhand Gibson? You talk about the price being " chopped apart" what are you talking about?

A post was made stating and showing a war era Gibson where this type of thing had been done before.. and there is NO affect to the desirability of said guitars.

 

And lets say feckin Market Forces do determine the sell on value of these guitars... what are we talking in you opinion.. I know you work in finance

 

a couple hundred euro? more?

 

I bought my HB TV just over 6 months ago.. I paid 2500 euro... you want a new one now in Europe.. 3200 Euro... it seems to me these are pretty rare beasts already.. and I was trying to source a new one for a LONG time if you remember.

 

So if I do ever need to sell the guitar..and I will only ever do this if I need the money.. not to go on to buy something else I'm not worried. A Ren era HB TV lacey act or not.. will bring me a decent return.. and I will have had the pleasure of owning and playing an amazing instrument.

 

Thanks

 

edit and if you want to read some real information about the word ' laminate' and necks.. read the paddle cut thread and in particular Hogeyes input

 

Comments like ParlourMan's are hardly what I would call groundless... more about simply facing reality in my opinion. Some people, myself included, look at these "Lacey Act" Gibson's with laminated fingerboards and bridges as being inferior... but that just means I won't be buying one, if you buy one and enjoy it all the power to you. But I can't because if I did it would always feel like it was lacking something. I feel laminate fingerboards and bridges belong on the $60 guitars people buy at Walmart and not on a Gibson.

[Infamous]

I completely understand the purist desire for a single piece bridge or fretboard but, structurally or tonally, in what way is this construction "inferior"? People shouldn't automatically associate "laminate" with being inferior. Plywood is superior to single ply wood sheets, carbon fiber airplane wings are laminated, fiberglass surfboards and boat hulls are laminated... all for additional strength (and with additional construction costs).

 

So, other than it being nice to know that your fretboard is one piece because that's how they always have been (I like that too), and you can't tell the difference tonally, again, in what way is this inferior?

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I feel laminate fingerboards and bridges belong on the $60 guitars people buy at Walmart and not on a Gibson.

 

[lol] [lol] [lol]

 

i rest my case

 

btw from your signature it looks like you aint buying ANY Gibsons

[Morkolo]

[lol] [lol] [lol]

 

i rest my case

 

btw from your signature it looks like you aint being ANY Gibsons

 

Excuse me? I believe you mean buying and yes I plan on buying a non laminated bridge/fingerboard equipped Gibson acoustic in the near future. I'm sorry if my decision to pass on a guitar with a laminated fingerboard and/or bridge may offend because of your recent purchase, if you're happy with it... like I said more power to you, that just means there's one less of these on the market for me to pass on. Unfortunately for me, my experience makes poorly aligned laminates, such as the one found on your bridge stick out like a hairy wart on a woman's face. So forgive me if it hits a nerve with me when someone tries to brainwash others into believing the bs that such laminates belong on a guitar in this price range.

[brannon67]

J45 Baby Yes....

[retrorod]

Comments like ParlourMan's are hardly what I would call groundless... more about simply facing reality in my opinion. Some people, myself included, look at these "Lacey Act" Gibson's with laminated fingerboards and bridges as being inferior... but that just means I won't be buying one, if you buy one and enjoy it all the power to you. But I can't because if I did it would always feel like it was lacking something. I feel laminate fingerboards and bridges belong on the $60 guitars people buy at Walmart and not on a Gibson.

I plussed on that You beat me to it. I agree with PM also.

Where does it end? Anyone care to make a case for a "toothpick bridge"....

[ParlourMan]

Luckily there are plenty of people who don't buy a guitar with thoughts that it's an investment of some kind.

While I take on board your comments PM, and you have made exactly the same comments now a number of times.. so I get the point by now.. you don't like it

that's fine, but to be using words like "inferior" obviously hits a nerve with myself.. being the owner of said Lacey Act HB TV.

 

Sorry if my post offended, it was certainly not the intention. As I maybe didn't come across in the tone I intended, I'll say that I don't personally consider them inferior from a 'user' perspective, perhaps the aesthetics may irk a few once noticed (as we've seen here already) and I definitely defy anyone's ears to pick out a two-piece bridge over a single-piece, so realistically the differences as an instrument are little to nothing.

 

As a 'craft' instrument, it may appear compromised to those looking for traditional specs.

And to jump in with the question of " What does your bridge and fret board look like" to a new member posting about his new J45 TV....well what can you say?

 

I just feel it's comments like these that ultimately do affect the perception of SOME people, and the comments are groundless.

 

Again, I can only say you have taken my point not as I intended, the question was based on a desire to know if these 'Lacey act' guitars had spread far and wide yet. I think as it's been a hot potato since it came up, it's fair to assume it's a reasonable enough question.

 

I may have some bias in the issue for sure. But I have seriously thought about the matter and can honestly say.. It makes no difference what so ever to me. If I was going to buy a secondhand Gibson 20 years from now and I had 2 HB tv's or J45 tv's infront of me, one with a laminated board that sounded fantastic and one without that sounded crap.... which would I buy?

for me it's a no brainer.

 

I can't disagree, I even checked my own guitars after it came up, the Keb Mo and the SJ-200TV both have 'traditional' bridges, the woody is as yet unknown as it's away for repair at the minute. From that we can assume even had they been two-piece bridges, I hadn't noticed so before the topic came up. I do also agree that a good sounding guitar is favourable over one which has aesthetics as it's biggest selling feature.

 

You are correct.. for some people this issue will affect their decisions on buying a secondhand Gibson in the future.. and some of that will because of posts like yours PM. If i hadn't had the experience of owning one then I may have had reservations also.. so i guess i'm lucky.

 

For me, I was only trying to point out something that will be said a million times by others down the line, lest we forget I am actually a Gibson fan, imagine what the other brand boys will be posting on forums everywhere, I feel they'll have a far greater reach than my thoughts amongst a board of fellow Gibsonites.

 

At the end of the day in 10 or 20 or 30 years just how much will this issue affect the cost of a secondhand Gibson? You talk about the price being " chopped apart" what are you talking about?

A post was made stating and showing a war era Gibson where this type of thing had been done before.. and there is NO affect to the desirability of said guitars.

And lets say feckin Market Forces do determine the sell on value of these guitars... what are we talking in you opinion.. I know you work in finance

a couple hundred euro? more?

 

A touch heated, I'll leave that one alone.....

 

I bought my HB TV just over 6 months ago.. I paid 2500 euro... you want a new one now in Europe.. 3200 Euro... it seems to me these are pretty rare beasts already.. and I was trying to source a new one for a LONG time if you remember.

 

So if I do ever need to sell the guitar..and I will only ever do this if I need the money.. not to go on to buy something else I'm not worried. A Ren era HB TV lacey act or not.. will bring me a decent return.. and I will have had the pleasure of owning and playing an amazing instrument.

 

Thanks

 

edit and if you want to read some real information about the word ' laminate' and necks.. read the paddle cut thread and in particular Hogeyes input

 

Only time will tell....

 

Are all Norlin's bad? No.. Yet there name is almost like a dirty word to the purists and ammunition to the bashers.

 

Are all 40's & 50's models great? No, but the vintage market would have you believe so, it supports their prices in an availability controlled environment. So the market for them only increases. Today's market for Ren era guitars could see numbers between 150-250,000 guitars based on assumed numbers of the 12-17,000 models per year (depending where you read). Too young a market and too big a market availability to avoid having classifications applied to it, this year is better than that year, white nut Vs black nut, VOS Vs New vintage Vs gloss finish etc... What they want still exists new in some shops somewhere. Not everyone's stock is post-Ren era yet.

 

You have to try one before you buy one - something even pedaled here, I'd bet there's a fair few have bought online, tried only one example, loved it from the off and kept the guitar, it's not a world away in principal from a custom build really, you certainly won't be picking from 10.

 

These are all 'truths' that have come down the years, 2nd hand, 3rd hand info, yet we se them ever day. I stand by that a ren-era market will take a long time to level the way the current vintage market for 30's, 40's and 50's has. And in that market there will be perceptions that a single piece bridge/board is somehow 'better' or 'preferable' and 'desirable', every vintage market is based on 'elitisms'. Overall I thought my previous comments were quite measured, I'm sorry you felt differently.

 

I'll try not to contribute to threads where this comes up.

[retrorod]

Plus ya on that, PM.

No need to apologise or refrain. Your words and opinion deserve as well as anyone elses. Even if I do agree with both of your statements.

I am not able to say a word more, BUT....Right ON

[Morkolo]

Plus ya on that, PM.

No need to apologise or refrain. Your words and opinion deserve as well as anyone elses. Even if I do agree with both of your statements.

I am not able to say a word more, BUT....Right ON

 

I'll second that endorsement. [thumbup]

[duluthdan]

I am a player, not a collector. I will never live long enough to see any of my guitars (the oldest being a 1996 HD 35 I bought used, changed the tuners, dropped in a Highlander PU, so its no longer unaltered) become a vintage market instrument.

 

 

This J-45 TV has a monster crack in the lower bout (repaired) that has me much more concerned, that it will blow up in my lap someday, than a (nicely) laminated bridge or fretboard would have - but like I said, I play 'em, I don't collect 'em - and I never buy thinking I'll get my money out of 'em. BTW this crack was not my doing - its a long story as this guitar was stolen from David Hidalgo, and bounced around the L.A. freeways in the back of a pickup truck before it was recovered. That crack saved me well over a thousand bucks, on a helluva nice player.

 

That being said, I think the issue is one of "non-disclosure" from the manufacturer, and the fact that the "discovery" was/is veiwed as an unnerving fact, rather than just an evolution in the manufacturing process.

 

Didn't someone just post a comparison between the sound in two 1943 models (SJs? Rosewood vs Mahogany)where one had a belly bridge and the other had a rectangular bridge ? Would that affect value to a collector? They both looked and sounded stunning to me.

[retrorod]

Cool story, with the David Hidalgo connection! He is a

very cool' player

Some very 'blistering lead' on the Firebird

[duluthdan]

Retro: If you get the chance - go see their acoustic concert - man do these guys drive hard ! Got the chance to see them last week - spent some time with Mr. Hidalgo after the show - I gave him a copy of the note he included with the guitar as provenance "This here J-45 is my guitar, David Hidalgo" He laughed and said "That guitar really has a history" and proceeded to tell me the story. Embarassed to admit it, but until a couple of months ago when I bought this guitar from Mollie Maher at Willie's Guitars in St. Paul, Minnesota, I had never. heard of the guy - heard of Los Lobos, the band, but not Hidalgo. Incredible player. Their finale was Cinnamon Girl - Neil Young, all acoustic, holy cow did they kick butt !

[Del Nilppeznaf]

 

I'll try not to contribute to threads where this comes up.

 

Thanks PM, I appreciate the considered reply, I respect your views here.

I only wanted to add a different perspective to a topic , that in all fairness, you started again. Debate is healthy I believe, but I do feel that by posting these type of comments with the words "inferior" and "prices being chopped apart" ect only leads to some nonsensical, juvenile replies as we have just witnessed. ( and I never seen so many green lights B) )

 

Your points are valid to a point, but they have already been stated, and by yourself in exactly the same way a number of times. Anyway.....

 

It would be interesting to find out when exactly this process started and when it will end ( as apparently this has been a temporary solution ). And what models are affected. Only TV's for instance? This could be inquired about without the need to imply these instruments are inferior.

To liken this to Norlin era Gibsons is again taking things a little too far, don't you think?

 

Ren era and resale value? Who knows... but I was specifically talking about TV models.. and HB's in particular. It now seems the given that Gibson have got it very right in the construction of the TV line, ( when I first joined this forum there where some that advocated staying away from the TV line esp' for J45's.. so there you go).

Given that the TV line only started in 2007 was it? and Ren left end of 2011.. then this makes the number of these guitars available far less than the 150-200 thousand you stated.

 

This topic will go on and on, we all know. I just couldn't help but give my tuppence worth, from another perspective.

 

Cheers

[ParlourMan]

Thanks PM, I appreciate the considered reply, I respect your views here.

I only wanted to add a different perspective to a topic , that in all fairness, you started again. Debate is healthy I believe, but I do feel that by posting these type of comments with the words "inferior" and "prices being chopped apart" ect only leads to some nonsensical, juvenile replies as we have just witnessed. ( and I never seen so many green lights B) )

 

Your points are valid to a point, but they have already been stated, and by yourself in exactly the same way a number of times. Anyway.....

 

Del, you seem awfully angry at me, I never manufactured it... I'm only pointing out feasible second hand sales scenarios.

 

 

It would be interesting to find out when exactly this process started and when it will end ( as apparently this has been a temporary solution ). And what models are affected. Only TV's for instance? This could be inquired about without the need to imply these instruments are inferior.

To liken this to Norlin era Gibsons is again taking things a little too far, don't you think?

 

I never likened them to Norlin, I used Norlin in a statement to demonstrate how repeated opinions become 'truths' as time passes.

 

 

Ren era and resale value? Who knows... but I was specifically talking about TV models.. and HB's in particular. It now seems the given that Gibson have got it very right in the construction of the TV line, ( when I first joined this forum there where some that advocated staying away from the TV line esp' for J45's.. so there you go).

Given that the TV line only started in 2007 was it? and Ren left end of 2011.. then this makes the number of these guitars available far less than the 150-200 thousand you stated.

 

This topic will go on and on, we all know. I just couldn't help but give my tuppence worth, from another perspective.

 

Cheers

 

So, the numbers are smaller, ok, that will then take us in an availability controlled market with 4 types of model...

The original run (167 pieces) with certificate etc...

The extended run due to popularity

These new 'Lacey act' models with the laminate parts. (currently rolled out)

The post Ren, post Lacey act models (unseen as yet)

 

Of the three we know are already on the market, which do you think will command the top dollar second hand and which the least? Seems perfectly obvious to me.

 

YMMV, but the market views it as the market views it.....

 

Now, given a choice would you rather have your 2 piece model or a single piece knowing that single piece will be more of a 'box ticker' to all the people in the market at any given time. I've already said I don;t consider them to be inferior, but that is a very real scenario of how it will pan out after years of posts about these "high dollar laminate Gibson's", you might not like it (clearly you dont) but that's the kind of language that will be used about them. That is not my fault either, so I see little point in taking it out on me.

 

 

 

[Del Nilppeznaf]

ParlourMan,

 

I'm not angry with you, I was posting to thank you for your intelligent thought out reply, ( admittedly i was a little peeved to begin with, so sorry ) The amount of information and knowledge I have garnered here from the likes of yourself and others over the last 6 months odd, has been very much appreciated.

 

Just you did bring the topic up again..... and I wanted to give my thoughts as an owner of one of these instruments.

 

What does crack me up is when you get people who don't even own a Gibson, let alone a high end Acoustic, chimming in with comments about Wallmart and ugly women , then a respected member by myself talking about "tooth pick bridges" hahaha

INDEED where will it all end???

I just read a post by a member talking about the AGF and a thread where people where claiming Talyor guitars where exploding because their tops where so thin.....hahahahahahahaaha it cracks me up

but do we want to end up like that here?

over the last few weeks it seemed to me this forum was heading in that direction. I sincerely hope not.

No implication to your self PM... but this topic has IMHO seen some bs posted.

 

You do mention Norlin and the perceived 'truths' that are handed down to become fact. Well isn't that because there is actual truth in them? From my understanding the reason Norlin era Gibsons are held in suspicion is because the major changes in the actual structure and build of said guitars applied in that period, made them sound crap. As stated my many, including yourself, these issues are purely cosmetic. You yourself state you checked all your Gibsons and are awaiting return of your Woody Guthrie upon discovering these changes. Myself and others didn't even realize our guitars had these bridges until reading about them here. I have no idea about the fret board because I cant even see it due to binding. So even the cosmetic issue is hardly worth the claims of inferior.

 

People will hold unfounded opinions and make opinions based on what they read on forums like this, sad but true.( Even the original poster changed his mind about his guitar overnight after receiving negative comments here, wonder what he decided to do..??? )

 

I enjoy your posts PM, and it's good to have a intelligent discussion. Don't mean to come across like I'm having ago. Apologies for being a little fiery... these Gibson guitars sure do cause some passion.