Morkolo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 That's because the "acoustic tone," on record/cd/dvd, has been augmented, even altered, to sound the absolute best, it can. Compressed (too much so, at times), as well. I admit, one of the nicest acoustic tone, I've experienced for myself, was strumming, and finger picking a Martin 000-28EC. God, what a lovely tone, and sustain, it had! Just wish I would have had the funds, to pick that one up! CB I know but try telling that voice in your head that keeps saying I want that one... it's a losing battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Ah yes, the quest for tone... ....there really is something to that extra 10%. Yeah most Strats, Pauls, Plexis, Deluxes, Twins, PAFs, Fuzz Faces, Tube Screamers, EL34s, etc sound 90% the same... but that extra 10% really is the sh*t. The average person might not hear the difference, but who cares? We hear the difference, and searching for it is what we do. I think even 10% is a vast exaggeration. Probably less than 1% IMX. As Ive said before; I could be happy with just my #1 LP and my MM amp. Last year I once again had the itch to get a Strat but it probably gets less than 5% play-time. I feel, as Flight said, it's time to get rid of some unplayed stuff. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Honestly, when is the last time you went to a show and left saying "Man, that guy was great! If he had just used a JJ 6L6 instead of that EH and some vintage paper in oil tone caps I would have enjoyed the show." :blink: I have a lot of gear but it's mostly because I like to wheel and deal and I like to study how things work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Honestly, when is the last time you went to a show and left saying "Man, that guy was great! If he had just used a JJ 6L6 instead of that EH and some vintage paper in oil tone caps I would have enjoyed the show." :blink: Obviously the player and their playing is the most important factor but... A few years ago I was at a gig where the lead guitarist played one Flying V from the start until the last two numbers. For these he swapped over to another V - an Epiphone(!); '58 style - and the tone of this second guitar was out of this world! I spoke to him after the gig and he was saying "Yeah! It really IS great, isn't it?" He had only recently bought it and wasn't too sure about using it instead of his other V (which he had owned for a long time) but once he became more accustomed to it's feel he said it was surely going to become his #1. It had had much of the electrics replaced and he had no idea what the p-ups were but it really sounded amazing. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Obviously the player and their playing is the most important factor but... A few years ago I was at a gig where the lead guitarist played one Flying V from the start until the last two numbers. For these he swapped over to another V - an Epiphone(!); '58 style - and the tone of this second guitar was out of this world! I spoke to him after the gig and he was saying "Yeah! It really IS great, isn't it?" He had only recently bought it and wasn't too sure about using it instead of his other V (which he had owned for a long time) but once he became more accustomed to it's feel he said it was surely going to become his #1. It had had much of the electrics replaced and he had no idea what the p-ups were but it really sounded amazing. P. The wife and I caught a gig last weekend, where the lead was covering everything with an Ibanez. It was serviceable tonally, except for the Allman Brothers set then it was horrific. Not to mention the fiasco of " The Houses of the Holy" cover, forgot about that one. My personal belief is that tone is pretty much set by the player and his rig. I tried for years to find that certain " Page tone" from a guitar and couldn't exactly replicate it. When I decided to search for and settle into my tone , I became much happier gear wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've never been one to chase anyone's particular tone. I think "perfect tone" is over-rated and perhaps more of a marketing concept than anything else. We all can spend a lot of dollars chasing that elusive "perfect tone" and the guitar and gear manufacturers will have much happier bottom line figures for their shareholders at the end of the fiscal quarter. Would Hendrix have been any less of a guitarist if his tone was more like Jimmy Page's? And who's tone is best anyway? I think Santana's tone on Black Magic Woman is wonderful, but would it have worked on Terry Kath's solo on 25 or 6 to 4 or the Eagle's Hotel California or Elvis' Don't Be Cruel or The Ventures' Walk Don't Run? If tone was that important, how do you measure the success of singers with voices like Bob Dylan, Doctor John, Blossom Dearie, Stevie Nicks, Rod Stewart, etc.? Sax players are no different. Two of the top rated jazz tenor saxophonists of the 20th century (Stan Getz & John Coltrane) had such very different tones that if you played them back to back to a listener with untrained ears, he/she would assume they were playing entirely different instruments. On the other hand, as a musician I do care about tone. My Parker DF has a wide variety of tones and I use many of them. I also blend the piezo pickup with the magnetic pickups to get further variations. Furthermore, when I switched from my previous guitar with P90s to my Parker, I asked a fellow guitarist who comes out to listen to use often if he noticed a big difference in tone. His answer was, maybe a little, but it still sounds like you. I could hear a lot of difference, but even another musician is listening more to my note choices, expressive devices, phrasing, and melodic interpretation than the finer points of my tone. Personally, once we get our tone 'in the ballpark' for the genre of music we are playing, we would be better off spending more time on improving our technique and artistic expressiveness. Of course, as always, YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm always tone chasing And will continue to tone chase... dont know if it has anything to do with ego or marketing ...... but even the greats like Paul and John have tried to sound like their hero's during their careers..... So I dont see what the big deal is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyMoon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 It's all about finding your own personal sound that you like..... I tried the Eddie Van Halen distortion pedal..and I think I sounded more like frans van Halen, Eddies second cousin twice removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Clapton bought his 'burst after he heard Freddy King playing his. Peter Green, Paul Kossoff, Jeff Beck, Gary Moore all bought LP's after they heard Clapton's playing on the 'Beano'. And long before Les Pauls and Marshalls existed famous violinists were trying to get violins which sounded just like a Strad. 'Chasing' a favourite musical tone is a pursuit as old as music itself. What I sound like has been influenced by the players whose tone(s) I like. I sound more like, say, Peter Green than I do James Hetfield for a very obvious reason. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Clapton bought his 'burst after he heard Freddy King playing his. Peter Green, Paul Kossoff, Jeff Beck, Gary Moore all bought LP's after they heard Clapton's playing on the 'Beano'. And long before Les Pauls and Marshalls existed famous violinists were trying to get violins which sounded just like a Strad. 'Chasing' a favourite musical tone is a pursuit as old as music itself. What I sound like has been influenced by the players whose tone(s) I like. I sound more like, say, Peter Green than I do James Hetfield for a very obvious reason. P. ..... thanks for putting it into words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yeah, it isn't a big deal, really...Unless you spend your whole life, trying to sound like someone else, and go to the poor house, in that futile attempt. Now, "tone chasing," in an attempt to do something "different," or unique, like The Beatles did (for just one example), in their studio experimenting, is great! Dare I say "needed" even. To me, that's when music, and a player, really "grows!" But, to each his/her own. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't chase a tone I can hear in my head but once in a while you pick up a guitar, or plug in to an amp and you just know you like it. If that happens, and I can afford whatever the gear might be, I buy it. I was very lucky when I had returned my R6 and it was replaced, I wasn't happy with the replacement (although not because of tone). I stupidly took an R8 that I couldn't have afforded to buy, off the shelf to give it a go. Uh oh, it had my name on it. Thankfully I had a good dealer who have had the majority of my disposable income over the last 20 years so they sorted me out. I think everyone's approach is different, if you want to chase someone's tone, or a tone you hear in your head, be my guest. Help yourself, knock yourself out etc etc. It takes all sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 CB... You're sayin' what I've been sayin' here for ages. Here's another factor so far unmentioned: Each of us hears differently so in theory, we might think we're getting a given range of "tone" when others don't. Acoustics of a room... lah dee dah... So many variables. I still have GAS, but it tends to have to factors involved at this point in my life: Slightly different guitars that now are available and seem like a good idea - e.g., different shape AE - and then getting back into a bit of bass playing and looking at appropriate stuff, and finally a bit of upgrading to the PA. I'm utterly convinced that except for a few pickers who might be in an audience, that regardless of style the audience will listen to the overall sound whether it's a solo or a band. Any given "great guitar tone" in an act that doesn't come together will make little or no difference at all. Although I doubt I'll get the Parker, I think Notes has the professional way to think and if "we" don't think professionally ... what does that say about us? A homebuyer doesn't care what kind of hammer the carpenter used, he wants a well-built house... Yup, different equipment will be appropriate for different types of gigs and venues, and it may well be appropriate have equipment to be ready to do a different sorta gig if you can do it otherwise. But "tone" within a 10-percent zone of what you think appropriate for time and place is gonna make it - and in some areas of the audience the real question is whether they hear a good balanced sound... or not. edit: BTW, different shapes bring different technique, too... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Haha actually I'm not gonna lie.. The last piece of gear that I bought (an EHX Small Stone) was a direct result of listening to these guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUq3oc0lYbw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Milod, you're right, we DO all hear things differently, to some extent. Heck, I hear things differently, day to day! What sounded "great" one day, may not be all that "great," the next. Mood, how we feel, physically, how our ear has been conditioned, at any particular time, too...are all factors. And, what you "want" to hear, as well. I guess that's one reason I've never worried (too much), about "chasing tone," for tone's sake... but, just enjoying "that tone," if/when it happens, naturally...meaning, all the right elements come together, at that particular time. But, the next day, those same elements, may not sound the same, for some unexplained reason. Does that make ANY sense??? LOL One thing, too...is that I think we get "bored" with a particular tone, after awhile especially when we have (finally) achieved it, and want/need to move on, to the next one. Then, when we get bored with that, we either move on, again, or come back, to a previous. Hence, the somewhat "tail-chase" aspect, in all this. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 CB... Yeah, I think we do get bored with a given tone but often forget that what we "like" may or may not make any difference to an audience. I think too that some audiences, especially some types of rock and country audiences, expect what they heard on a recording - but most audiences may like tunes and lyrics, but will be just as happy hearing and (in appropriate venues) dancing to a "version" rather than "cover." Yeah, I think some "tones" may not be appropriate to a given musical thing - but some of that is our own as much as audience expectations. E.g., I dumped a nice electric 12-string and went for a solidbody 6 when I got involved in country band after some period of doing other stuff and the concurrent guitar swaps. Nowadays I think that may have been a mistake and could have helped with "versions" rather than "covers." Whatever... But seriously too, I've been mostly playing two AEs lately - a big one and a little one - and yet playing the same type of stuff I usually do regardless. Now THAT is a tone difference. OTOH, my main reasoning for playing the two is simply to get more of a different playing geometry to figure out what it might do to/for technique. The material I mostly do, I don't think an audience would care much one way or another. <grin> I figure that's kinda a zen thing... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Milod, you're right, we DO all hear things differently, to some extent. Heck, I hear things differently, day to day! What sounded "great" one day, may not be all that "great," the next. Mood, how we feel, physically, how our ear has been conditioned, at any particular time, too...are all factors. I’m sorry, Charlie Brown, Milod, but I still think that this case when the guitar has not the most unique sound. Although for most guitars, this situation is obviously the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Honestly, when is the last time you went to a show and left saying "Man, that guy was great! If he had just used a JJ 6L6 instead of that EH and some vintage paper in oil tone caps I would have enjoyed the show." :blink: I have a lot of gear but it's mostly because I like to wheel and deal and I like to study how things work. EXACTLY! I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but I am certain that most of the tiny nuances in tone that we players sometimes obsess over mean nothing to the listener, and are often driven by some sort of ideology (usually old = good). My own experience with running a small studio in the 90's was that the better and more experienced the player; the less they cared about the specific equipment, because they sounded good through any reasonable rig. It was the seventeen-year olds that insisted that the entire recording would stand or fall on getting the exact balance between the three amps and four effects pedals they were using simultaneously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 EXACTLY! I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but I am certain that most of the tiny nuances in tone that we players sometimes obsess over mean nothing to the listener, and are often driven by some sort of ideology (usually old = good). My own experience with running a small studio in the 90's was that the better and more experienced the player; the less they cared about the specific equipment, because they sounded good through any reasonable rig. It was the seventeen-year olds that insisted that the entire recording would stand or fall on getting the exact balance between the three amps and four effects pedals they were using simultaneously Exactly! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This is along the point I was trying to make on another thread, I like my amp because I can get a lot of great tones out of it, it is very versatile. I do not chase one specific tone and sometimes I run into something I like that I did not even know I could dial in my amp. Any time I am trying to get a specific tone out of my amp close enough is good for me. I like the "reasonable rig" reference, some folks go too far in trying to make a point that the player is what matters the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If Bubba can't groove on a $50 solid state amp and a $100 Epiphone, Bubba can't groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If I had to match equipment with the equipment of artists I like, I'd go broke. I have no idea, really, what tone is mine or the exact tone I want from a sound perspective. I can get a great sound with any combination of my guitars or amps. To me, tone has more to do with note selection and technique than equipment. Zen... yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I care about tone and some tones seem to sparkle with certain "band" performances of specific pieces of music. But it seems to me that "boring" tends more to arise from technique whether one's doing a solo performance or whether one is in a band. The problem is a set list that seems to be different versions of the same piece. Frankly I think that's why there aren't more "singer-songwriter" gigs out there. After a half dozen versions of the same guitar strumming behind the same vocal quality, it gets boring. Ditto bands that seem to have a groove that never changes and after the first set... you stop caring. OTOH, some really good solo performers can keep your mind moving. Leo Kottke comes to mind, but there are quite a few others, too. But "tone" per se isn't to me the determining factor - it's the performance. That's also why I'm increasingly a PA nut, btw. When audiences as a whole just hear semi-musical mud, regardless of style, I think they mostly stop caring about the "music." m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 And/Or...when it's so loud/distorted, that it's all just "noise!" CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yeah, it isn't a big deal, really...Unless you spend your whole life, trying to sound like someone else, and go to the poor house, in that futile attempt. Now, "tone chasing," in an attempt to do something "different," or unique, like The Beatles did (for just one example), in their studio experimenting, is great! Dare I say "needed" even. To me, that's when music, and a player, really "grows!" But, to each his/her own. CB I agree with all this. I've been using the same 2x12 combo amp for 32 years. Before I bought my #1 LP six years ago I (mainly) played the same guitar for the 24 years prior to that. I liked the range of sounds I could get with the both the old guitar and the 'new' guitar with the same amp. It can do everything from sparkling clean to well-overdriven. A "Reasonable Rig" as Martinh put it. And I also agree with Searcy's Bubba ethos. I'd like to get a really cheap old guitar and a crappy old S/S amp just to see what I could do with them. I'm sure they'd be just fine for most purposes. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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