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mydeadblues

NEED HELP! INSTALLING TUNERS/TUNING MACHINES!

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I'm in the middle of upgrading the riviera and now I am at a stand still. I thought getting the old tuning bushings out of the headstock would be my biggest problem, but now after doing so I'm stumped on how to get this peg inside. The bushing inserts on the front of the guitar just fine and is suppose to screw into the flush tuning peg. Any ideas? [cursing]

 

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looks like you will have to make the holes bigger, however there is risk of damaging the finish round the edges of the holes if you plunge strait in with a drill. I did it once with an epi acoustic using a good sharp drill bit, a slow turning speed, and gentle pressure. drilling half way from one side, then drilling from the other side to meet in the middle. you will have a millimeter or two of coverage on the top from the flange of the bushing, and you will also get coverage on the back with the body of the tuning machine, so there is a small margin for error if required.

 

 

there may be a much better solution, but this worked for me.

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Willy did tutorial on this last year: http://forum.gibson....-guitar-part-2/

 

Those hand reamers can be had at Home Depot or online for about $10. A good investment, I've used mine many times.

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/56660-kids-todaymods-complete/page__hl__%2Bhand+%2Breamer

 

 

Ha, that would be those better solutions I hoped someone would mention [thumbup] [thumbup] yea, the hand reamer looks like the easiest, safest and most cost effective tool....also useful for other jobs too.

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While looking at the thread that Brian refers to, you may notice the part where I talk about screw holes.

My old screw holes were no where near the new ones. That is why I mention filling them with crayon wax.

 

In your case, the old screw holes look like they may line up perfect.

If not, don't force the screws....even if they are off by only a slight amount.

Fill the old screw holes with tooth pics dipped in Elmers glue. (sizing them correctly first)

 

Then, drill new screw holes.

 

Just a thought...

 

Willy

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As others have mentioned there are several ways to fit new tuners. The primary consideration would be patience, IMO. The wood of a headstock is relatively thin and generally always contains join lines where two pieces of wood are joined to the sides to form the curvy shapes.

 

A while ago, Rastus mentioned a step reamer, and I bought one of those since one step size will keep the reamer aligned for the next larger size. I got the Great Planes GPMQ5007 metric reamer which has 7, 8, 10 and 12mm sizes (the Great Planes reamers have 5 flutes instead of just 4 like some cheaper ones are made).

 

Another option would be using an electric rotary tool (like a Dremel), using a small diameter sanding drum to enlarge the tuner holes. Making some temporary template guides (even just circles drawn on masking tape) to place over the existing hole would be a way to judge how much wood needs to be removed, also tape is good at protecting the finish if the tool slips to the side.

 

BTW, for tuners which have bushings that already fit the holes from the front of the headstock, the front side of the holes don't need to be enlarged (fairly easy with a step reamer or sanding drum).

That way, the bushings will be better supported by the wood, instead of just having the washer cover the gap.

 

In cases where existing screw holes aren't needed, it's likely worthwhile to clip toothpicks to fill the holes.. when they're glued in, they'll maintain some strength in the headstock instead of just leaving the holes unfilled.

Packing the toothpick points into the holes while the the glue's wet will leave a shallow pit which can be filled with color to make the holes less visible.

 

Bill

 

 

I'm in the middle of upgrading the riviera and now I am at a stand still. I thought getting the old tuning bushings out of the headstock would be my biggest problem, but now after doing so I'm stumped on how to get this peg inside. The bushing inserts on the front of the guitar just fine and is suppose to screw into the flush tuning peg. Any ideas? [cursing]

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Thanks willy! I do recall seeing your tooth pick and crayon trick on this forum a while back. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, I bought these tuners hoping that they would be a direct replacement. I may invest in other similar tuners that have bushings similar to the original. I'm going to think it over and maybe I'll be making a trip to home depot for a reamer. Thanks for all the info guys! Anybody know of any similar vintage style tuners that are good quality? Anyone try the gotoh tuning machines?

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Anybody know of any similar vintage style tuners that are good quality? Anyone try the gotoh tuning machines?

Yes, I put a set of Gotoh nickel vintage machine heads on my '97 SG Junior.

They look and work great! I used a drill to increase the size of the tuner holes. Worked fine with no problems.

 

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Hand reamer, always.

 

I got mine for $3,50 at Harbor Freight, if you have one in your town you don't have to pay shipping.

http://www.harborfreight.com/t-handle-reamer-66936.html

 

I used it on an old Fender acoustic to add 18:1 grovers.

 

Took my time, Hand turn a few times then check the tuner fit, hand turn a few times then check the tuner, slow and steady will get it done right. This reamer sliced the wood like butter. Cheap tool, but very sharp. Watch your hands.

 

Why risk cracking your head with a drill. Yikes.

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Oops missed your question on tuners.

 

This is what I put on my Casino, drop in fit. In any event they are excellent locking tuners as well. Gotoh SD 90 MG "Magnum Lock", with nickel butter-bean buttons, They are Kluson style, made by Gotoh's Japan factory.

 

Here is a link where I posted pictures of those tuners. I rhink they are some of the best out there.

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/68497-replacement-tuners-epi-casino-peerless/page__p__929921__fromsearch__1#entry929921

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If you don't have access to a reamer, I've had good luck with a sharp drill bit, turning backwards. The flute edges won't dig in in, and that's when the problems occur with drills. Drill in reverse, with slight pressure.

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Thanks everyone for all the info! I went to Home Depot looking for a reamer but they didn't have any on hand. I got home and ended up chickening out of drilling the holes bigger so I bought some Gibson push in bushing tuners. I finished upgrading the pups to a gibson '57 and a '57 plus.

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There's a Dremel sanding bit that's about 10mm in diameter that works great. Although I used the Grover Tulip tuners and they fit without adjustment to the hole.

 

 

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I'm really happy with my pickup choice; the difference is night and day! Now I can't put it down [biggrin]... at least not until my new guitar comes in a couple of days... I'll post pictures when it comes.

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There's a Dremel sanding bit that's about 10mm in diameter that works great. Although I used the Grover Tulip tuners and they fit without adjustment to the hole.

 

 

Where did you find the tuners? Part number? Thanks,Bob

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Copperhead....sorry for the delay - was out of town a while. The tuners on my Les Paul Studio are Grover Vintage tuners. I'm pretty sure of two things - all the tulip-style tuners they make use the bolt-down design, like the chrome Grovers that come stock on most Les Pauls. I also believe they make them for Gibson. So, rather than spending the $75-100 for the Gibsons, I use the Grovers. You can find them at any of the guitar parts shops like AllParts, Stew-Mac or GuitarParts Resource. And, of course there are always a few up on eBay. Not tough to find. And, worth the $30-35.

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If you don't have access to a reamer, I've had good luck with a sharp drill bit, turning backwards. The flute edges won't dig in in, and that's when the problems occur with drills. Drill in reverse, with slight pressure.

 

 

I agree with Tweed on this. Turning the drill bit backward is an old woodworkers' trick.

(I didn't just call Tweed old, did I?) [blush]

 

You only turn it backward to get past the surface, to prevent chip out. You can do this to start both sides.

The danger with drill bits is that they tend to bite in as they go. You must clamp the headstock down, and control the drill closely.

I use a drill press to avoid this. I know everyone else may not have one.

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Oops missed your question on tuners.

 

This is what I put on my Casino, drop in fit. In any event they are excellent locking tuners as well. Gotoh SD 90 MG "Magnum Lock", with nickel butter-bean buttons, They are Kluson style, made by Gotoh's Japan factory.

 

Here is a link where I posted pictures of those tuners. I rhink they are some of the best out there.

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/68497-replacement-tuners-epi-casino-peerless/page__p__929921__fromsearch__1#entry929921

 

DonCarlos:

Well i finally found the Gotoh locking tuners!! I bought them directly from Japan. $34 but $23 shipping - still good deal for $57 locking Gotoh tuners with the butter beans.

Installed them the other day. Easily replaced the bushings too. Direct perfect replacement for the tuners. The only mod I had to do was to slightly enlarge the screw holes for the

larger, more robust screws. No problems!!

Thank you so much for your help and for your recommendation.

David

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