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Does adjusting the stop bar have any affect on string tension or action


Zeppelinguy

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Well I ask because my playing has really taken a toll this week and I'm quite upset about it. I feel like I've regressed as much as a year in a matter of a few days...

 

The only thing I'm doing differently is using Nano Elixir's instead of Poly Elixirs (I doubt this would make a significant difference in my playing), and I stopped top wrapping... So I had to raise the stop bar a few turns to compensate for the break angle.

 

 

Any ideas?

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Uuuuu...There is an angle in degree's that is supposed to be optimal for the bridge, I'm not sure the exact number as I'm not a fist-class tech.

 

It is said that it should match the break angle at the other fulcrum point- the nut.

 

Incidentally, Dan Erlewine also recommends raising the stopbar to this angle in order to prevent bridge collapse.

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Well I ask because my playing has really taken a toll this week and I'm quite upset about it. I feel like I've regressed as much as a year in a matter of a few days...

 

The only thing I'm doing differently is using Nano Elixir's instead of Poly Elixirs (I doubt this would make a significant difference in my playing), and I stopped top wrapping... So I had to raise the stop bar a few turns to compensate for the break angle.

 

 

Any ideas?

You're probably just having a bad streak, everyone gets them.

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It DOES effect intonation. Have you adjusted for that?

 

I would have though it wouldn't affect intonation. Raising or lowering the bridge i.e. action, or changing string thickness does affect intonation but I'm not so sure in the case of the tailpiece.

 

?????

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Guest farnsbarns

I would have though it wouldn't affect intonation. Raising or lowering the bridge i.e. action, or changing string thickness does affect intonation but I'm not so sure in the case of the tailpiece.

 

?????

 

This is gonna be very hard to explain, sorry.

 

A very small section of the string very close to the saddles and the nut doesn't vibrate. Imagine a string vibrating right up to the saddle, it would have to bend in a tight angle, or the string beyond the saddle would have to vibrate at the same rate and amplitude, making the saddle a pivot point. Because the portion of the string between the saddle and the tail is much shorter it can't do that. Changing the break angle or the length of the string between the tail and the saddle increases or decreases this effect, thus changing the effective, vibrating string length.

 

All that aside, sometimes intonation needs a slight tweak after simply changing strings, let alone changing to a different type.

 

If I had changed the geometry of my guitar, and the strings, then found my playing was awkward and not quite right, I'd check the intonation strait away.

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Our own ANDY R did a thread on this very thing called "guitar related mythbusters"....I can't seem to be able to link, because i don't know how AND this puter just WANTS to crash.

 

Or, if you prefer, NO, is doesn't.

I thought the deal Andy was speaking of had to do with bending to the same pitch with normal vs top wrapping and proved that the string reached pretty much the exact same positioning to hit pitch no matter the method used.

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I thought the deal Andy was speaking of had to do with bending to the same pitch with normal vs top wrapping and proved that the string reached pretty much the exact same positioning to hit pitch no matter the method used.

Yes, and I think we are talking about the same thing.

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Guest farnsbarns

I thought we were discussing whether or not it effected action (to me action means a lot of things, intonation, string height, etc) which it does. It doesn't imo have any discernable effect on tone or overall tension etc but I'd still say, if you change geometry and strings and then find you get that feeling of just not being into it and not sounding quite right, that you check and adjust the intonation. That's setup 101.

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If lowering the tailpiece and increasing string angle at the saddles also hastens bridge collapse, which makes sense, I wonder why so many new guitars have the tailpiece set quite low?

 

Simply tradition going back to the 50s when the TOM was invented ... or perhaps Gibson thinks the guitar looks better with a low tailpiece ... or perhaps tailpiece height really does affect tone somehow?

 

Interesting question.

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It effects intonation, but won't make string bending more difficult.

I'll explain why. For as long as the guitar is in tune EADGBE the strings are going to be a certain tension.

When you lower the tail piece the strings will become tighter, but won't be in tune.

When you loosen the tuner and put it back in EADGBE standard tune the strings are going to be the same tightness, therefore the will NOT be harder to bend.

What ????? [confused]

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Guest farnsbarns

If lowering the tailpiece and increasing string angle at the saddles also hastens bridge collapse, which makes sense, I wonder why so many new guitars have the tailpiece set quite low?

 

Simply tradition going back to the 50s when the TOM was invented ... or perhaps Gibson thinks the guitar looks better with a low tailpiece ... or perhaps tailpiece height really does affect tone somehow?

 

Interesting question.

 

The rake angle of the neck is lower (and more historicaly accurate) on reissues.

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It effects intonation, but won't make string bending more difficult.

I'll explain why. For as long as the guitar is in tune EADGBE the strings are going to be a certain tension.

When you lower the tail piece the strings will become tighter, but won't be in tune.

When you loosen the tuner and put it back in EADGBE standard tune the strings are going to be the same tightness, therefore the will NOT be harder to bend.

 

That would be true if the string between saddle and stop bar had no effect on tension over the nut and if you never did any string bending.

 

I believe that additional tension caused by a greater angle of fall makes the slight movement of string across the saddle that occurs on bending more difficult. This is also why string bending on a guitar with a floating trem is much easier because there is much less tension over the saddles.

 

I may be wrong but that's just how it feels to me.

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It effects intonation, but won't make string bending more difficult.

I'll explain why. For as long as the guitar is in tune EADGBE the strings are going to be a certain tension.

When you lower the tail piece the strings will become tighter, but won't be in tune.

When you loosen the tuner and put it back in EADGBE standard tune the strings are going to be the same tightness, therefore the will NOT be harder to bend.

 

100% correct sir. Well said.

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