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Does adjusting the stop bar have any affect on string tension or action


Zeppelinguy

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Wouldn't the fact that, by bringing the stop bar down, a longer length of string is needed between the saddles and the stop bar. This obviously has the effect of raising the overall tension between nut and saddle and hence the pitch of the notes. This then has to be compensated for by loosening the strings in order to get back down to EAGDBE again. Once tuning is stabilised, although the tension between nut and saddles is back the same, you'd have greater resistance to movement across the saddle area than before- because of the larger break angle. I'm sure I read some unpderpinning physics on this break angle tension on a previous thread on the subject of stop bar height.

 

??????????????

 

I'm still confused.

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Thanks for agreeing with me for those that do. Most of the time ppl don't agree with me on forums, but it's whatever i don't care. lol

Sometimes I seem good at thinking about stuff like this!

 

Just like searcy said use smaller strings to bend easier =)

 

 

Hi Ludnuts,

 

I absolutely don't disagree with anything you've said at all but I think there's more to it. If it were just down to adjusting tension via the tuning pegs to equalize tuning, in the case of string changes wouldn't a conversely greater tension be needed to bring thinner strings back up to the same EADGBE????? As such narrower strings wouldn't feel any different. Of course, narrower strings do feel easier to bend...as does raising the stop bar, or installing a floating trem (to me anyway.) Dan Erlewine also seems to think that a screwed down stop bar adds tension over the bridge area such that it pulls it backwards.

 

Like the OP, I'm also interested in whether there is any physics based evidence to support raising of the stop bar to facilitate easier string bending.

 

Hope I've explained my uncertainty.

 

Cheers

 

Alan

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wouldn't a conversely greater tension be needed to bring thinner strings back up to the same EADGBE?????

 

Nope, it's right the opposite. The bigger the string the greater the tension required to bring it to a given pitch.

 

As such narrower strings wouldn't feel any different. Of course, narrower strings do feel easier to bend.

 

No, narrower strings are easier to bend because they are under lower tensing than a larger string tuned to the same pitch on the same guitar would be.

 

Here are the facts : T = (UW x (2 x L x F)2) / 386.4

 

T= Tension

 

F=Frequency

 

L=Scale length

 

UW=Unit weight

 

So a .10 string tuned to standard guitar high E over a 24 3/4" scale must have a tension of 15.26 pounds. However a .009 string only needs 12.36 pounds of tension to reach the same pitch over the same scale. That's a savings of almost than 3 pounds!! [thumbup]

 

You see, physics will not allow you to raise or lower the tension of a guitar string without changing its pitch. That's because to reach a given pitch, a given string gauge over a given scale length MUST be tightened to an exact tension to play in tune. So no matter what adjustment someone does at the bridge of the guitar, if they retuned it so that the high E string is playing in tune than there is no change in string tension.

 

This little fact of psychics is what allows guitars fitted with an Evertune bridge to work the way they do.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPAX6juXCjM

 

 

 

If your goal is to make it easier to bend notes on your guitar get a lighter string gauge and stop dicking around with the bridge

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wouldn't a conversely greater tension be needed to bring thinner strings back up to the same EADGBE?????

 

Nope, it's right the opposite. The bigger the string the greater the tension required to bring it to a given pitch.

 

As such narrower strings wouldn't feel any different. Of course, narrower strings do feel easier to bend.

 

No, narrower strings are easier to bend because they are under lower tensing than a larger string tuned to the same pitch on the same guitar would be.

 

Here are the facts : T = (UW x (2 x L x F)2) / 386.4

 

T= Tension

 

F=Frequency

 

L=Scale length

 

UW=Unit weight

 

So a .10 string tuned to standard guitar high E over a 24 3/4" scale must have a tension of 15.26 pounds. However a .009 string only needs 12.36 pounds of tension to reach the same pitch over the same scale. That's a savings of almost than 3 pounds!! [thumbup]

 

 

 

My bad - I should have "lesser tension" for the thinner strings shouldn't I- which is obvious. #-o

 

Thanks for explaining that using that tension calculation formula. Dropping by just 0.01" seems to make quite a difference.

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My bad - I should have "lesser tension" for the thinner strings shouldn't I- which is obvious. #-o

 

Thanks for explaining that using that tension calculation formula. Dropping by just 0.01" seems to make quite a difference.

 

Glad to help. I kinda figured you just mixed it up. Just like LudNut just got it backwards when he said..."When you raise the bridge you will have to tighten the tuner and when you lower it you will have to loosen the tuner to be in tune"

 

It's easy to flip flop things. [thumbup]

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I had help with that^^^^.

 

Anyway, I thought it was a great "experiment" he did to show and prove what actually happens (or doesn't) regarding string tension, or bending.

 

Good points here on this thread about string tension and pitch. THAT doesn't change, ever. It will always take the same amount of tension to raise the pitch (bending) to the same note.

 

The one thing that does change the actual "effort" is the length of string a guitar has between the bridge and tailpiece, and the nut and tuner. The nut and bridge determine the length of string that is vibrating, and the same tension has to be there to give the proper note. But, to INCREASE the tension when bending a string, if the is a longer string on either side, you have to bend the string farther to raise the pitch.

 

So, between a Strat and a Jazzmaster, there would be a difference. According to the "mythbuster" experiment, raising or lowering the tailpiece does not change the length or anything else enough to make a noticeable difference.

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