trapeze tailpiece vs. pinned bridge

[DCBirdMan]

I was starting to think about a Gibson B25-12.... not many are in good shape any more... they were tuned up too high, bridge and top pulled up, soundhole sunk, etc. all that sort of structural stuff. But occasionally you may find a freak of nature that survived in good shape, with really good action, etc.

 

Didn't this model start out as pin bridge, went trapeze tailpiece and then back to pin ?

 

I am just wondering how big a difference in sound there is. The general thought is that pin bridge B25 and B45 12s are louder, fuller etc.

If so, is it a dramatic difference?

[j45nick]

"Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Tops" has an excellent chapter on the B-45-12 and the B-25-12. Both began life as pin bridge models, and evolved over time, largely to try to overcome the structural problems associated with string tension. The book implies that the early pin-bridge models were tonally superior, but that the structural issues were so severe (often from owner abuse, such as tuning to full pitch and using heavier strings)that few of these guitars survived without significant structural issues.

 

You do see a fair number for sale on ebay, but far more trap-tail models than pin bridge. I've been tempted, but probably would only play it as a novelty, so I'm trying to restrain myself.

 

As an aside, I have an ES-335-12 from 1968. As a plywood guitar with a mostly-solid centerblock, it has had fewer structural issues than its acoustic siblings, but it still benefitted from a neck re-set last year. I also use very light strings on it. It also has a trap tail, as did the standard ES-335 in that period.

[DCBirdMan]

"Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Tops" has an excellent chapter on the B-45-12 and the B-25-12. Both began life as pin bridge models, and evolved over time, largely to try to overcome the structural problems associated with string tension. The book implies that the early pin-bridge models were tonally superior, but that the structural issues were so severe (often from owner abuse, such as tuning to full pitch and using heavier strings)that few of these guitars survived without significant structural issues.

 

You do see a fair number for sale on ebay, but far more trap-tail models than pin bridge. I've been tempted, but probably would only play it as a novelty, so I'm trying to restrain myself.

 

As an aside, I have an ES-335-12 from 1968. As a plywood guitar with a mostly-solid centerblock, it has had fewer structural issues than its acoustic siblings, but it still benefitted from a neck re-set last year. I also use very light strings on it. It also has a trap tail, as did the standard ES-335 in that period.

 

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I am totally eaten up with Gibson electric 12s... 335, Melody Maker/SG, and non rev Firebird... all were late mid-late 60s thigns.. .66 to about 1970.. Problem is that directly coincides with Gibson's 'narrow neck' period where most were 1 9/16th instead of usual 1 11/16th.. .and 1/8th" makes a big difference. So all Gibson electric 12s have that narrow neck... I can pretty much deal with it on 6 strings, but I had a beautiful MM 12 and just could not play it. narrow as those narrow rick 12 necks that many have trouble with.

 

But B 25 and 45 12 had super wide, wider than needed necks. Interesting that the accoustic necks were (almost) too wide and electric necks too narrow.

 

Still going to troll for world's cleanest B25 12 of either bridge type. What I would be willing to do is have my man do a neck reset for better angle and better action. I'm a total low action ****. But since that's $300 I have to get it for really low retail.

 

It might be possible to have a B25 with killer low action, like 80s pointy heavy metal guitar low action.

[j45nick]

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I am totally eaten up with Gibson electric 12s... 335, Melody Maker/SG, and non rev Firebird... all were late mid-late 60s thigns.. .66 to about 1970.. Problem is that directly coincides with Gibson's 'narrow neck' period where most were 1 9/16th instead of usual 1 11/16th.. .and 1/8th" makes a big difference. So all Gibson electric 12s have that narrow neck... I can pretty much deal with it on 6 strings, but I had a beautiful MM 12 and just could not play it. narrow as those narrow rick 12 necks that many have trouble with.

 

 

FYI, here's my 1968 ES 335-12. And yes, it does have the 1 9/16" nut, which can be a bit of a challenge with 12 strings. I fell in love with the look of it, and it sounds really cool, especially since it has a hot pair of early patent number humbuckers, rather than T-tops.

 

It is odd the the acoustic 12's at this time all had very wide nuts (generally about 2"), while the electrics, and the acoustic six strings, all had the narrow 1 9/16" nut.

 

Go figure. It's Gibson, after all

 

[DCBirdMan]

FYI, here's my 1968 ES 335-12. And yes, it does have the 1 9/16" nut, which can be a bit of a challenge with 12 strings. I fell in love with the look of it, and it sounds really cool, especially since it has a hot pair of early patent number humbuckers, rather than T-tops.

 

It is odd the the acoustic 12's at this time all had very wide nuts (generally about 2"), while the electrics, and the acoustic six strings, all had the narrow 1 9/16" nut.

 

Go figure. It's Gibson, after all

 

 

Dang that is a sweet looking 335-12. Shame that the necks were so narrow. I'm still trolling for a B25-12 that can be made into a player. Maybe a K&K pickup would be the ticket. If I could find one cheap enough, could spring for a neck reset to get some way low action. I had that done on a B45-12 once.