blake geris Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Hello! I am a new, first-time Gibson owner. I've been selling off unused gear for a few months with the intention of purchasing either a vintage SG or a vintage dreadnaught. Lo and behold, an early-70s J-50 appeared on craigslist last week. The price was unbeatable, so I snagged it. The guitar does have a crack in the soundboard that will need repaired, but the neck is straight, the bridge is tight, and the only other issues are cosmetic (finish checking, etc.). There's no shortage of outstanding luthiers in my city, so I will be good to go. I can't help but be curious exactly how old it is. Unfortunately, it was built during the 1970-1972 range, which seems to be really problematic when trying to nail it down definitively. I thought I would share all the little details in case anyone on here would be able to assemble the clues and help me narrow the window a little bit. - Square shoulders - Black teardrop pickguard - Belly-down, rosewood bridge (no pearloid inlays) - Regular saddle (not adjustable) - "Made in USA" stamped into back of headstock - Serial #6233xx stamped into back of headstock - Chrome tuners (ovals, not bells) - No sticker or other inscribing that I can see inside, but I haven't used a mirror or anything as of yet - Also came with original case, which is a black hard shell with pink plush interior Do any of these details eliminate or identify a production year? I very much appreciate whatever help I can get. I've been reading the forums for a few days and I'm sure this place will become a regular time-killer! Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The non-adjustable saddle suggests 1971 or later. Other than that, it's almost impossible to pin down any more tightly than you've already done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 welcome to the forum, and congrats on new gibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The specs and particularly the teardrop pickguard indicate the guitar was built in 1971 or 1972. As has been said, it is not possible to narrow it down any further than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J200_2013 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Headstock and bridge are different, but other than that it looks a lot like my Heritage, even the checking! How does it play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ or Burst Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi Blake From late 1970 till 72/73 the J45/59's were a good lot . Gone were the tone killing shingle pickquard and the hardware store adjustable bridge. As long as it is not the worst design of all, the Dred-ed double X brace top you've got a sweet Gibson that will perform with the older slope shoulders at a big price reduction. My SJ is a 1969 and it works fine. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake geris Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi again! Thanks for your feedback and comments. I dropped it off at the luthier yesterday and talked through some of the issues that needed addressed. I am supposed to hear back today with an estimate. I really only care about the fractured soundboard; everything else is mojo. He seemed to think 71-72 as well, so I think I ought to be satisfied with that. Despite the decade-old strings and being detuned about a step and a half, it sounds wonderful. I cannot wait to play it after it's repaired and set up. I will definitely post some pretty pics once I have it back. Y'all are great- thanks again for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChordMasher Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hey, I've got #5169xx which looks like a twin sister to yours. If you've got a decent luthier, you've got a fine guitar for low money, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake geris Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 I got a call from the luthier last night with a line-by-line list of observations and repair options. The most basic recommendation was obviously to repair the crack in the top. I didn't know this, but during that time period, Gibson (and other manufacturers) would apply the pickguard to bare wood and do the finishing afterward. That's the culprit for a lot of these kinds of fractures. So the repair involves removing the guard and finishing that area once the crack is fixed. I also learned there is some loose bracing inside- not surprising with the state of the top. If money were no object, they would recommend doing a neck reset, but at this point the geometry isn't so severe that it's absolutely necessary. Probably in the next couple of years (some time to save up for that, at least!). There's room for them to plane the bridge and get the action to where I like it. So, I am opting to repair the crack and bracing, and they are going to do some bridge work as well to buy me some time before I need the Big Kahuna. I don't feel bad since these repairs cost more than I paid for the actual guitar, and I'm still coming in way under a reasonable sale price. I should get it back in a few weeks, and I'll post some photos when it's all nice and pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I got a call from the luthier last night with a line-by-line list of observations and repair options. The most basic recommendation was obviously to repair the crack in the top. I didn't know this, but during that time period, Gibson (and other manufacturers) would apply the pickguard to bare wood and do the finishing afterward. That's the culprit for a lot of these kinds of fractures. So the repair involves removing the guard and finishing that area once the crack is fixed. I also learned there is some loose bracing inside- not surprising with the state of the top. If money were no object, they would recommend doing a neck reset, but at this point the geometry isn't so severe that it's absolutely necessary. Probably in the next couple of years (some time to save up for that, at least!). There's room for them to plane the bridge and get the action to where I like it. So, I am opting to repair the crack and bracing, and they are going to do some bridge work as well to buy me some time before I need the Big Kahuna. I don't feel bad since these repairs cost more than I paid for the actual guitar, and I'm still coming in way under a reasonable sale price. I should get it back in a few weeks, and I'll post some photos when it's all nice and pretty. This shows a prime reason why buying vintage guitars can be tricky. Repairs of this type aren't cheap, and they may or may not add significant value to the guitar, depending on what you paid for it. Fixing a top crack, re-gluing braces, and re-setting a neck pretty much cost the same on a '72 J-45 as they would on a 1943 banner SJ. In the case of the "newer" J-45, the repairs may be necessary to make the guitar playable, but the value of the guitar is limited by the market for a good '72 J-45. With luck, you've found a guitar that plays and sounds like a million bucks, and you'll keep it and enjoy it for a long time. For others, that "bargain" vintage guitar that needs significant repairs may end up being a money pit, so go into purchases of this type with your eyes wide open. Not tryng to discourage anyone from buying vintage here. Just pointing out the reality you face if the guitar ends up needing significatn repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake geris Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 This shows a prime reason why buying vintage guitars can be tricky. Repairs of this type aren't cheap, and they may or may not add significant value to the guitar, depending on what you paid for it. Fixing a top crack, re-gluing braces, and re-setting a neck pretty much cost the same on a '72 J-45 as they would on a 1943 banner SJ. In the case of the "newer" J-45, the repairs may be necessary to make the guitar playable, but the value of the guitar is limited by the market for a good '72 J-45. With luck, you've found a guitar that plays and sounds like a million bucks, and you'll keep it and enjoy it for a long time. For others, that "bargain" vintage guitar that needs significant repairs may end up being a money pit, so go into purchases of this type with your eyes wide open. Not tryng to discourage anyone from buying vintage here. Just pointing out the reality you face if the guitar ends up needing significatn repairs. I definitely agree. I was taking a calculated risk when I picked this J-50 up, but I trusted my own judgment when giving it a once-over. I'm not a luthier, but I feel pretty comfortable evaluating the overall health of a guitar. I was also relatively familiar with repair costs from previous experience, so in the end there were no surprises. I bought it with the intention of keeping and playing it for the long-haul. Buying vintage (or bargain-vintage) is certainly not for everyone. If you're thinking about it and you're unsure of your ability to diagnose issues, don't be afraid to ask the seller to meet you at a guitar shop or luthier before the sale. If they aren't willing, they might not be the kind of people you want to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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