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I think it was last summer we had a similar mental break down on the Board. It came to a point where I had to ask if everyone was hit by a collective heat stroke.

 

This time I need to say that it's too far out to let one thread run astray and get almost aggressive on that account. It's downright silly and not worthy the topic we're all here for – Guitars and Gibson guitars.

 

I understand why it would be necessary to let the dogs bark away once in while – simply to clean the air and straighten out basic positions, but to develop a minor war with 2, if not more sides around a frontier, seems absurd.

 

Wily, Nick, H-eye, Jerry, whoever, , , , go ahead and disagree on different topics – political, cultural etc. - but for heavens sake don't let it disturb what a forum is about : To build bridges between people via knowledge and curiosity over a theme.

And don't be hyper-sensitive.

 

Did the mad thread get closed – I didn't even bother to check, but have to be honest with you Bluesking777 and tell that your pole-thing only fuels the fire. It's not what we need right now and perhaps one could say it's even wrong of me to start what is written here.

 

So why not just read this text and keep from responding.

Let the frustrations and discrepancies find their grave with this thread and get back to the 6-strings, all hands on deck. . . .

 

The Board is a band – members might think and be and like East and West, but they exist to create music together.

 

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Indeed, I'm done with all this .... but aint going anywhere.

 

I would just add that it could be good to think twice before creating threads that might 'possibly' stir the fire, not worth it.

 

I will also use this thread to blatantly show a latest pic of the stable and remind us what brings us here together ... pics of Gibsons always puts a grin on my face and make the world a better place for a few moments, no matter if theyre mine or somebody elses.

 

IMG_4096.jpg

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The world is full of nice people, bad people, people you like, people you don’t, idiots, intelligence people, normal people, mad people etc... etc.... (add your own type at your leisure)

 

You are bound to meet some of them at some point.

 

OK you may have to bite your tongue from time to time,

 

Life is too short to get wound up for more than a few moments. Believe me this is true as I was on deaths door in 2010 (I am OK now though). Just treat it as experience.

 

Form posts are like the television, you can always change the channel.

 

Now what do you want me to play in this virtual band, guitar, bass or vocals.

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The world is full of nice people, bad people, people you like, people you don’t, idiots, intelligence people, normal people, mad people etc... etc.... (add your own type at your leisure)

 

 

Actually, the world is full of people I don't like and people I tolerate.

I haven't been reading (or posting) here much, lately. I guess I missed something. Sounds like I got lucky. My two cents. "Like the last meal I ate, this will pass."

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What brings us together is what tears us apart. ;)

 

My tuppence worth (not that I'm suggesting you should take any value from it) goes as such...

 

- Does anyone care how much of a populist the CEO of the company that made your toaster is? Can you even name him without google's help? We're talking manufactured goods here, ok we may cherish these particular manufactured goods (the guitars) more than a toaster but you get the idea.

 

- Every group will go through and revisit the forming, storming and norming phases repeatedly. Across the grounds of inter-personal relationships a commonality in guitars we prefer is not the strongest of bonds to begin with as it leaves out the bigger topics, race, religion, politics as well as strong uncompromising general world views, whenever a hint of these are applied the splits appear. All this is very normal. Just as it's normal to expect it to burn out fairly quickly if it's allowed to do so.

 

- Some members have history, that creeps up and becomes usable again in times like these, sad but true... it's not very enlightened but it's how people work generally speaking.

 

- It can make for rather amusing reading at first, but it fairly quickly becomes uncomfortable reading. When the bullets are flying people are less discerning about where they shoot and until everyone's emptied both barrels there will be crossfire.

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One of reasons I like this board is because it is....was, free of the sort of bitterness that exists on the AGF ( the Against Gibson Forum ) .... I am pretty much done with that site.

 

There can be differences of opinion, there always will be, we can all learn from each other, we all may not agree on things at times, but we all have a common interest in these guitars..... Lets make some music.. and hopefully we can all enjoy each others company here.

 

Cheers y'all

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Indeed, I'm done with all this .... but aint going anywhere.

 

I would just add that it could be good to think twice before creating threads that might 'possibly' stir the fire, not worth it.

 

I will also use this thread to blatantly show a latest pic of the stable and remind us what brings us here together ... pics of Gibsons always puts a grin on my face and make the world a better place for a few moments, no matter if theyre mine or somebody elses.

 

IMG_4096.jpg

 

 

Holy crap EA! The stable is all Thoroughbreds. Impressive. I can only view this once without a lobster bib to catch the drool. Yes, agree ... your comments are spot on. Let peace and common sense reign. Saving for a J-200 .........

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Actually, the world is full of people I don't like and people I tolerate.

I haven't been reading (or posting) here much, lately. I guess I missed something. Sounds like I got lucky. My two cents. "Like the last meal I ate, this will pass."

 

](*,):-({|=

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Keep the focus on guitars

Gather information

Share information

Strive to always remain civil

 

And above all else,

Consider yourself fortunate

To have the luxury of thinking

About your instruments rather than

Whether or not you'll survive the day.

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And above all else,

Consider yourself fortunate

To have the luxury of thinking

About your instruments rather than

Whether or not you'll survive the day.

 

 

Amen to that!! I'm in on the band thing here. I'll just polish & pass the guitars to the real players as I'm not good enough to perform. [biggrin]

 

Don't really know how the gas leak got started for sure. It maybe blew over or out. I'm with you Madman as the 1st 1/2 of 2011 was a close call for me too. This nasty crap just don't live long with me. I will say, some good spirited "bickering" doesn't bother me at all and can be kind of fun. [flapper] GOOD SPIRITED is the key! I've read it so many times. If you have 2 decision makers or idea guys that agree on things you have 1 too many!! Often thru discussion & different viewpoints being express, great things happen.

 

What I want to do this summer is be happy, ride the bikes & strum the guitars. Oh yeah, eat plenty of BBQ esp. pork spare ribs. YeeeHaww [thumbup]

 

Aster

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Ha ha,

 

I think it must be "older guys" like me, cuz you can't text 4 pages worth of posts that would tell what you listened to on the way to work!!!

 

Yeee Haww. Older now & loving life even more. (just wish the joints & muscles worked faster & with less pain when overworked). [biggrin]

 

Aster

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I am totally down with this thread and the additude of it.

 

This stuff is FUN because it not only brings us together in a way, but brings us each closer to our true love: making music, or appreciating others music, and the instruments we make them with.

 

AND we should ALL count ourselves lucky we are even in a place to type about it. I just watched a doc on the Japan quake and Tsunami. Makes our little disagreements and guitar "problems" seem way out of line to let it get in the way of what we got, or could have.

 

And I STILL think we got one of the coolest CEO's we could ask for. I think we should have a HENRY fan club.

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Indeed, I'm done with all this .... but aint going anywhere.

 

I would just add that it could be good to think twice before creating threads that might 'possibly' stir the fire, not worth it.

 

I will also use this thread to blatantly show a latest pic of the stable and remind us what brings us here together ... pics of Gibsons always puts a grin on my face and make the world a better place for a few moments, no matter if theyre mine or somebody elses.

 

IMG_4096.jpg

 

Well there's one wall nicely completed, EA;

 

ahhh, urrrhhh, mmmm what's going on the other 3 walls?

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Several years ago I visited the luthier shop of Steve Anderson, a fellow who makes archtops in Seattle. It was a very small one-man operation, kind of like the Gibson factory but all condensed into a few work areas. Steve is well regarded and some well known artists like Bill Frisell play his instruments. Doing it all himself he can only make a few instruments a year and at that time there was a long wait, seven years if I remember right. Steve's clientele are I suppose generally people who come to the shop, meet him, work out the details of an order etc. So it's really hard to think of any of his customers saying things like 'Steve is screwing us' or 'Steve lied to us' or 'What is this bull pucky Steve is telling us now?' or 'Doesn't Steve have any quality control over there?' These are very expensive, boutique guitars. The customers know and respect the luthier or they wouldn't have bought his instruments.

 

Now when we come to bigger makers, I think there is a kind of frugal, canny, customer ethos, more like the way people shop for a toaster or a dishwasher, which takes over. When people buy a toaster they don't care about the manufacturer and probably have little brand loyalty. They are looking for results here and now in the form of consumer goods at the lowest price possible. They have learned to be skeptical, even cynical about suppliers of consumer goods and tend to assume the worst about the manufacturers. Maybe that is why even on this Gibson acoustic forum, supposed to be for fans, you hear people say things like Gibson is lying to us, what is this crap Gibson is telling us now? etc. And as long as you never come face to face with the people working in the plant in Bozeman and stand on the factory floor and watch them turn wood and glue and nitro into guitars it is probably easy to view Gibson as a faceless large corporation. You know, the sort that needs to be stomped every now and then, just to keep them in line? This point of view is awfully hard to maintain once you visit the factory and shake people's hands and see how it all happens. Then you feel a respect for these people akin to what I was describing in regard to a small builder. Now this is not a faceless corporation. These are woodworkers, artisans, designers. Talented people. If you like what they are producing, possibly they are worthy of your respect.

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Now when we come to bigger makers, I think there is a kind of frugal, canny, customer ethos, more like the way people shop for a toaster or a dishwasher, which takes over. When people buy a toaster they don't care about the manufacturer and probably have little brand loyalty. They are looking for results here and now in the form of consumer goods at the lowest price possible. They have learned to be skeptical, even cynical about suppliers of consumer goods and tend to assume the worst about the manufacturers. Maybe that is why even on this Gibson acoustic forum, supposed to be for fans, you hear people say things like Gibson is lying to us, what is this crap Gibson is telling us now? etc. And as long as you never come face to face with the people working in the plant in Bozeman and stand on the factory floor and watch them turn wood and glue and nitro into guitars it is probably easy to view Gibson as a faceless large corporation. You know, the sort that needs to be stomped every now and then, just to keep them in line? This point of view tends to pop once you visit the factory and shake people's hands and see how it all happens. Then you feel a respect for these people akin to what I was describing in regard to a small builder. Now this is not a faceless corporation. These are woodworkers, artisans, designers. Talented people. If you like what they are producing, possibly they are worthy of your respect.

Jerry, I understand your point, and it's one well taken. There are a lot of good folks putting their best into making the Gibson instruments we enjoy. But the fact remains that Gibson is a very large company. Steve Anderson controls every aspect of his operation, and is therefore accountable for all of it. Corporate decision making can often be far removed from the shop, and can easily veer into the realm of shortcuts in order to increase profit. I would gladly offer into evidence the plastic & metal bridge assembly removed from my old '65 Gibson B-25n! After 20 years of faithful service, the guitar became part of a trade, but I just had to keep that unbelievably lame assembly after replacing it with an ebony bridge, and it now resides quietly in a box in the basement. Of course there have been many other well documented periods in Gibson's history of build quality issues, quality control issues, etc. Although some folks are bound to go over the top from time to time with their choice of words, it does benefit the greater good to have consumers providing feedback regarding their level of satisfaction with the product. A recent thread on another forum detailed the construction of a questionably designed neck tenon joint that had been in use on Gibson's ES-339. Within the past year, Gibson has gone to a more substantial tenon joint for this model. I do not know what discussions led to that decision, but players insisting on a quality product can only help in the effort to keep Gibson moving in a positive direction.

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Well there's one wall nicely completed, EA;

 

ahhh, urrrhhh, mmmm what's going on the other 3 walls?

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Movies for long, cold winter nites, Tiger Woods golf on the PS2, playing along with Kurt and Eric, casting couch, lava lamp and a view BK !

 

IMG_4054.jpg

 

IMG_4068.jpg

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The corporation is pretty big. The Montana division is only a hundred people and largely autonomous. You can give a negative review of a guitar or aspect of a guitar without assuming something sinister on the part of Gibson, which is what I was talking about. This constant assumption that the company is up to no good is like the old scientific idea of aether. It doesn't explain anything and is unnecessary. Give them all the feedback you want and while you are doing it hold the same attitude you would with Steve Anderson. The curious thing is that is mostly the way it works with Martin. Don't seem to find people screaming at the company like you do here and yet I don't find the overall quality to be significantly different.

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There was a recent thread posted by Juan Carlos with links to an 8 part 'behind the scenes' tour of how a Gibson acoustic made is produced, led by Ren through each step. It was a great piece of documentation and I think everybody enjoyed the experience, and certainly my appreciation of the process, time and dedication to making a Gibson acoustic increased even more.

 

 

 

The corporation is pretty big. The Montana division is only a hundred people and largely autonomous. You can give a negative review of a guitar or aspect of a guitar without assuming something sinister on the part of Gibson, which is what I was talking about. This constant assumption that the company is up to no good is like the old scientific idea of aether. It doesn't explain anything and is unnecessary.

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