ParlourMan Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You can give a negative review of a guitar or aspect of a guitar without assuming something sinister on the part of Gibson I take your point here, Jerry, but any manufactured goods will always have detractors, for some it will be "don't make em like they used to" for others it will be "I don't like X/Y/Z about this company's operational procedures", I don't think anyone at Bozeman will be taking any of that too seriously when they're in the middle of ramping up production numbers... the difference between business and people is good business leaves emotion at the door, guitar forums don't. Requiring to ramp up production in the middle of controversial times speaks volumes about general acceptance and demand for the product. It certainly speaks a lot clearer to the employees and the bean counters than someone screaming "My Epi is better than your Gibson....." before he gets laughed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 There was a recent thread posted by Juan Carlos with links to an 8 part 'behind the scenes' tour of how a Gibson acoustic made is produced, led by Ren through each step. It was a great piece of documentation and I think everybody enjoyed the experience, and certainly my appreciation of the process, time and dedication to making a Gibson acoustic increased even more. Yeah, I looked at those videos and they are very good. The only thing that is a little hard to convey in those is the overall scale. It's much smaller than most think. The first time I went I was thinking what, is this all of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I take your point here, Jerry, but any manufactured goods will always have detractors, for some it will be "don't make em like they used to" for others it will be "I don't like X/Y/Z about this company's operational procedures", I don't think anyone at Bozeman will be taking any of that too seriously when they're in the middle of ramping up production numbers... the difference between business and people is good business leaves emotion at the door, guitar forums don't. Requiring to ramp up production in the middle of controversial times speaks volumes about general acceptance and demand for the product. It certainly speaks a lot clearer to the employees and the bean counters than someone screaming "My Epi is better than your Gibson....." before he gets laughed at. Well possibly I am spoiled by the civilized behavior over at the UMGF. Anyone there damning Martin quite so heartily as we see Gibson damned here would be laughed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Well possibly I am spoiled by the civilized behavior over at the UMGF. Anyone there damning Martin quite so heartily as we see Gibson damned here would be laughed at. I'd seen all the criticisms before I bought a Gibson..... I bought one... I seen the same criticisms after... I bought a second one.. sure enough the same criticisms were posted online again, many times.. I bought a third one, all the recent turmoil happened and I fancied a hummingbird so I went to buy one, I came home with a J-50 (my fourth one) with the laminated bridge I will add... in the meantime my second one, a Woody Guthrie model turned out to be faulty and was replaced by Gibson with a J-45 std ( a second Lacey Act model). It's a fabulous responsive guitar... enough said. I think that speaks as to how much I pay attention to what guitar forums tell me over my own preferences and if I needed another guitar tomorrow for some reason my first stop would be to look at a few other Gibson's that have caught my eye... I don't think I'm a special case nor the biggest fan-boy around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 All really good points!!This is a good discussion. With my business, I'd much rather have a client tell me, in a "just the fact's ma'am" way, what we did or didn't do to create an excellent experience or finished job for them. Even if it's just a "perceived" short coming from their ignorance of the situation (no disrespect to them here, often they just don't know what to expect even when hours have been spent to explain & detail). Perceived or real, it needs to be dealt with or you have bad feelings & no referrals or worse yet, telling everyone so-in-so did a bad job. Or this is JUNK. I know, no matter how great a job you do, and give the moon & stars to clients, you will have some that just aren't happy with things. They are NEVER satisfied with things, with ANYBODY. I'm extremely particular & scrutinizing with products & work even to a fault. I have my beefs with products all the time and strive for EXCELLENCE. No longer for PERFECTION. Perfection doesn't exist, here on earth anyway, and best you can have is Excellence. Gibson and others do make excellent products that will provide many years of pleasure and performance. I can pick or tear apart ANYTHING that is made easily and show you why/how it could be better. Some fixes are feasible to do and others now make the product out of reach like "Unobtainium" and it would become only for a handful to own. The balance is what is the key on what QC/process that you can have and people like me still be able to afford to own it. At least that's what I've seen from the years I've put into designing & crafting my own works of my trade. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Try to work in advertising where you are basically selling an intangable product and the endless debate what makes a good ad ...this is a walk in park. At leasat with a Gibson acoustic you have something you can phusically touch and asses .. Thats my business btw .... but the castings for lengerie products and the mandatory busty blonde in beer commercials makes up for it .. ;-) All really good points!!This is a good discussion. With my business, I'd much rather have a client tell me, in a "just the fact's ma'am" way, what we did or didn't do to create an excellent experience or finished job for them. Even if it's just a "perceived" short coming from their ignorance of the situation (no disrespect to them here, often they just don't know what to expect even when hours have been spent to explain & detail). Perceived or real, it needs to be dealt with or you have bad feelings & no referrals or worse yet, telling everyone so-in-so did a bad job. Or this is JUNK. I know, no matter how great a job you do, and give the moon & stars to clients, you will have some that just aren't happy with things. They are NEVER satisfied with things, with ANYBODY. I'm extremely particular & scrutinizing with products & work even to a fault. I have my beefs with products all the time and strive for EXCELLENCE. No longer for PERFECTION. Perfection doesn't exist, here on earth anyway, and best you can have is Excellence. Gibson and others do make excellent products that will provide many years of pleasure and performance. I can pick or tear apart ANYTHING that is made easily and show you why/how it could be better. Some fixes are feasible to do and others now make the product out of reach like "Unobtainium" and it would become only for a handful to own. The balance is what is the key on what QC/process that you can have and people like me still be able to afford to own it. At least that's what I've seen from the years I've put into designing & crafting my own works of my trade. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Try to work in advertising where you are basically selling an intangable product and the endless debate what makes a good ad ...this is a walk in park. At leasat with a Gibson acoustic you have something you can phusically touch and asses .. Thats my business btw .... but the castings for lengerie products and the mandatory busty blonde in beer commercials makes up for it .. ;-) Sounds like a rough assignment EA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Thats my business btw .... but the castings for lengerie products and the mandatory busty blonde in beer commercials makes up for it .. ;-) Now that what I'm talk'n about for a tough way to spend the day!! Nothing like a driving & motivating "carrot" to force you to go in each day for those "casting" sessions. Just always depends on what you're "casting" for I always say. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Bobouz, I agree with your observations, but would expand on one point you made. Yesterday I got my third recommendation from a good luthier to NOT replace the plastic bridge on my 48 year old LG1. It is working perfectly, and is part of the vintage/mojo-ness of it. Might it change the sound it the bridge were replaced - yes. Would it be better? Subjective - since this is a ladder braced face, that plays a bigger part of it's sound. My point is that a larger corporation is 100x better capitalized than a single luthier building one at a time. They can afford to try new things. Both the R&D and testing on their larger customer base. They can leverage their brand name/ goodwill to the point of pushing the envelope to come up with new ideas. If guitar makers didn't try new things - we'd all still be playing ladder braced guitars. So, like The Three Bears beds, to me - Gibson is just the right size. Not too big - cranking out too many, not too small, not cranking out enough. As an aside, in my line of work - that is what you look for when shopping for a cardiologist or a neurosurgeon. Those who do too many tend to delegate to their head resident and be more 'bureaucratic', those who do too few haven't run into the unusual cases that challenge them to be able to have a knowledge base you want when they cut on you. And, yes I do own non-Gibson guitars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson101 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passthej45 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Try to work in advertising where you are basically selling an intangable product and the endless debate what makes a good ad ...this is a walk in park. At leasat with a Gibson acoustic you have something you can phusically touch and asses .. Thats my business btw .... but the castings for lengerie products and the mandatory busty blonde in beer commercials makes up for it .. ;-) Blondes and physically touching asses..........hmm? This is getting interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Bobouz, I agree with your observations, but would expand on one point you made. Yesterday I got my third recommendation from a good luthier to NOT replace the plastic bridge on my 48 year old LG1. It is working perfectly, and is part of the vintage/mojo-ness of it. Might it change the sound it the bridge were replaced - yes. Would it be better? Subjective - since this is a ladder braced face, that plays a bigger part of it's sound. Forty - If the bridge is structurally sound, I'd probably leave it on there, too. In fact, before the B25n, I had an Epi Cortez, which was an exact clone of the B25 except for the pickguard & headstock, and I left the plastic bridge on it. If you're happy with the tone, all is good! In the case of the B25, it's top had developed a weak area behind the plastic bridge, originating at one of it's screw-hole points. It had already caused a finish crack, and eventually would have cracked the top. The ebony replacement was very nicely done, with a slightly wider surface area behind the pins. Now here's the most interesting part: The tone became a bit brighter with tighter definition, but the change was not massive. Regardless of the tonal impact, when you see all the hardware removed and feel the weight of it, you just have to shake your head in amazement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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