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Could someone justify this for me?


LarryUK

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http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_guitars_detail.asp?stock=12061310164449

how is this worth so much more than this?

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_guitars_detail.asp?stock=08071616201628

 

It's been said before and I know I've moaned. But this seems to be getting worse.

The prices seem to be going haywire with the Custom shop models.

Both are made with machines and finished by hand. Both have similar costing hardware and electrics, similar woods and dimensions.

So why, over three times the price? I don't want to see 'Don't buy it if you can't afford it' or 'We've had all this before'. I honestly want to know 'Why'?

I've looked at these guitars and there is no visible difference in quality to the eye. Both made in America. So Why?

 

 

Yes I know the top one is aged. But that just makes it easier not to finish a guitar right to me.

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No. Well, at least I can't.

 

I have to say the price for the Custom Shop one does seem unnaturally high - even allowing for the 'aging' premuim.

I can't see anyone actually paying that much for it. Similar instruments can be found (even in the UK!) for a couple of thousand less.

Perhaps the vendors are pricing it so high so that in a month or two they can advertise it at a 'normal' price with tag-lines like "Price REDUCED BY £2,000 For ONE MONTH ONLY!!!".

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Supermarkets are using this marketing practice literally every day of the year.

 

P.

 

EDIT : There are, IMHO, a lot of nice re-issues available here (in the UK) for pretty fair prices.

 

How about this absolutely gorgeous (IMHO) lightly flamed 'Amber Orangeburst' '58 for a mere £2,700?

http://www.gak.co.uk...angeburst/43490

58AmberOrange.jpg

 

Or, at the higher end of the market (but still a good price for what it actually is) 'The Babe' - AKA Collector's Choice #3 - at £4,700?

http://www.gak.co.uk...tea-burst/62825

thebabe.jpg

 

With these sorts of instrument available I suspect GuitarGuitar might have their '60 for a while at the current asking price.

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Can't give you an answer but Guitar Guitar can put any price they want on something they have for sale in their stores... Maybe someone from Gibson can point out something else.

 

You have to understand that the price of making the guitar has nothing to do with it's selling price. If you by a Gibson, built into the price is the cost of operating a huge company with hundreds of employees...

 

Same thing as if you go into a bar to by a drink, the drink might coast you 7 dollars although it cost the bar .50 cents to make it. What you are paying for when you pay $7 for a drink is a comfortable place to drink it in, air conditioning, live music or a DJ, big screen TV, someone who serves you, the decor, the equipment needed to run a bar ( refrigerators, dish washing machines....etc ) not to mention the cost of a million other things that you never see when you hand over the money for a drink... So when people say you are just paying for the name, well yeah, but more important is what's behind the name...

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You have to understand that the price of making the guitar has nothing to do with it's selling price. If you by a Gibson, built into the price is the cost of operating a huge company with hundreds of employees...

All very true, Dave, but the situation here is two very similarly spec'd guitars offered at vastly different prices - more than 350% increase between the pair - yet each was made by the same manufacturer and is being sold by the same dealer.

 

To expand on your 'Bar-room' analogy; it's like buying one glass of, say, 'regular' Budweiser for $5 and an almost identical glass of 'Premium-Plus' Budweiser for $17.50.

 

Same brewery, same bar, same staff, same lounge, same overheads. Slightly different beer. +350%.....

 

P.

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It's called "what the market will bear". Of course GC doesn't expect it to sell that high, but neither do they expect to slash the price in half (a large percentage wouldn't surprise me).

 

Looking around at the various Custom Shop reissues over here, I find it interesting to note that the street price of an R6 or an R7 seem to be markedly lower than an R9 or R0. Why? They are very nearly the same exact guitar, and costs to produce have to be virtually identical. Yet the R9 and R0 often demand an extra thousand to fifteen hundred dollars from what I've seen. Why? Could it be that they are perceived as more desireable (a tie in to their actual vintage counterparts) and so some are willing to pay more for one than the other?

 

Can't give you an answer but Guitar Guitar can put any price they want on something they have for sale in their stores... Maybe someone from Gibson can point out something else.

 

You have to understand that the price of making the guitar has nothing to do with it's selling price. If you by a Gibson, built into the price is the cost of operating a huge company with hundreds of employees...

 

Same thing as if you go into a bar to by a drink, the drink might coast you 7 dollars although it cost the bar .50 cents to make it. What you are paying for when you pay $7 for a drink is a comfortable to drink it in, air conditioning, live music or a DJ, big screen TV, someone who serves you, the decor, the equipment needed to run a bar ( refrigerators, dish washing machines....etc ) not to mention the cost of a million other things that you never see when you hand over the money for a drink... So when people say you are just paying for the name, well yeah, but more important is what's behind the name...

You forgot taxes. And insurance. And taxes...

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...I find it interesting to note that the street price of an R6 or an R7 seem to be markedly lower than an R9 or R0. Why? They are very nearly the same exact guitar, and costs to produce have to be virtually identical. Yet the R9 and R0 often demand an extra thousand to fifteen hundred dollars from what I've seen. Why?...

Partly because an R6/R7 will be a Gold-Top; which means the maple cap is unseen and can be pretty much any old lump (or lumps) of appropriate wood, whereas the R9/R0 will normally have a very attractive (and more costly) lump of carefully bookmatched and 'centre-seamed' AAA/AAAA maple as its cap. The finish applied may also cost more in terms of time/labour.

 

No justification (IMHO) for a $1500 price-hike, mind you......

 

I guess many people will simply be prepared to pay much more for a pretty face!

 

P.

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The most amazing thing I've seen along those line is this.

 

Anyone remember these selling for $79 new at Guitar Center?

squier_51-butter.jpg

 

 

People really liked it so Fender pulled the Squire, slapped a Fender logo on it and raised the price 10X.

 

DV016_Jpg_Large_H72865.001.001_black_mp.jpg

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-pawn-shop-51-electric-guitar

 

I saw a Fender Custom Shop version the other day at Sam Ash with a burst for $6000.

 

You charge what people will pay and you make money. That's how it goes.

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.....but what is the actual difference? I've watched the video's and I really can't see much difference. Both are cut on machine etc.

To me, a Custom shop reissue should be made by hand. Not pkek'd or machine finished.

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.....but what is the actual difference? I've watched the video's and I really can't see much difference. Both are cut on machine etc.

To me, a Custom shop reissue should be made by hand. Not pkek'd or machine finished.

 

Even if I own a Custom, I totally agree with you

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I suggest reading the new premier guitar, there is an article on the old Gibson factory in Kalamazoo!!!

Those folks build real instruments!

 

Why buy an American made guitar if it is built by machines made in China?

 

Please tell me you're not really that stupid... [scared]

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Please tell me you're not really that stupid... [scared]

 

Are you really so stupid as to believe that those folks do not build a superior instrument at a better price?

Have you read the article or are you one of those small minded imbeciles that speaks with out any research?

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Are you really so stupid as to believe that those folks do not build a superior instrument at a better price?

Have you read the article or are you one of those small minded imbeciles that speaks with out any research?

 

I don't care what the article says. I've walked through the Gibson factory in Nashville and seen the guitar being made there. They are not made in China... ](*,)

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Simple, as long as the world is full of

rich dummys,and theres plenty of them around companys will continue to produce overpriced product . If people are prepared to pay well over the odds for something thats just marketed differently then they will keep making it. The only way to stop them is to stop buying there prduct then prices will fall ,problem is they now that were hooked its a hard cycle to break. [flapper] supply and demand simple as that.Its all about pounds shillings and pence or dollers nickles and cents.Could be a song in there somewhere. [biggrin]
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Oh,

I still have not read one reasonable justification/rationalization for the price difference.

 

The only justification is that people will pay it so that's what they cost. If you're looking for something more ...it just isn't there.

 

Sorry for calling you stupid by the way. I just had an old Ed Roman flash back there. Not a civil way to talk about things. I apologize for being a d1ck [thumbdn]

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Guest farnsbarns

Well, the actual differences...

 

Trad - back - up to 3 pieces of what ever mahogany is about.

Reissue - one piece of the finest and lightest mahogany Gibson have.

 

Trad - neck joint - short rocker tennon

Reissue - neck joint - long tennon

 

Trad - hardware - chrome

Reissue - hardware - nickel

 

Trad - wiring - modern

Reissue - wiring - 50s (volume and tone interact differently)

 

Trad - pots - modern 300k linear

Reissue - vintage type 500k audio taper

 

Trad - headstock - unspecified overlay

Reissue - headstock - holly veneer

 

Trad - finish - modern high plasticisor nitro (quite thick)

Reissue - finish - vintage type low plasticisor nitro (quite thin)

 

Trad - bridge - nashville tune-a-matic attached by inserts

Reissue - bridge - abr1 tune-a-matic, studs strait in to wood

 

Trad - neck angle - 5 degrees (stoptail floating to prevent the strings touching the back of the bridge)

Reissue - neck angle - < 4 degrees ( stoptail bolted firmly to body)

 

Trad - top carve - modern (no recurve)

Reissue - top carve - more vintage accurate (slight recurve)

 

 

I believe reissues also have a lighter stoptail?

 

There is clearly more work, better or more expensive materials, re-tooling etc involved in making the reissues. Does this "justify" the price difference? Only you can decide that. You have found the most expensive R0 I've ever seen there though. My R8 has cost me £2159.

 

Edit: further thoughts: in order to justify anything it must seem unjust first. I don't see how, in an open market for luxury goods, a price can be seen as unjust. GuitarGuitar choose their price, you choose whether to pay it.

 

Edit 2: even more thoughts: I bet I can get at least a grand of the reissue, I bet I can't get a penny of the trad.

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.....but what is the actual difference? I've watched the video's and I really can't see much difference. Both are cut on machine etc.

To me, a Custom shop reissue should be made by hand. Not pkek'd or machine finished.

 

If you are asking what is the difference between a custom shop LP and a USA LP you need to go play them,

 

You are not going to get it by looking at two pictures.

 

If, after you play them there is not difference to you then you saved a ton of money.

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I don't care what the article says. I've walked through the Gibson factory in Nashville and seen the guitar being made there. They are not made in China... ](*,)

 

Then you should read what I wrote.

 

I said the machines that build Gibson guitars are built in China but the machines are making guitars in Nashville. (I do not know this for a fact but that line is my signature on all guitar forums) What I am implying is that there is very little craftsmanship in guitar manufacturing today.

 

And I am referring to an article in Premier Guitar this month on the current occupants of 225N Parsons Street, Kalamazoo, MI. It is a lovely article about craftsmanship in a CNC age, I suggest everyone read it (This is not a slam on any manufacturer more an opportunity to be enlightened on the difference between hand built vs. CNC manufactured guitars.) The pictures are great! That place just reeks of history because of Gibson and hopefully someday Heritage too, check the article out it will give you great insight into McCarty era manufacturing.

 

As for the Chinese built Gibsons they should all be summarily burned upon identification end of story they are illegal and a blight on the current guitar market.

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Guest farnsbarns

the machines that build Gibson guitars are built in China but the machines are making guitars in Nashville. (I do not know this for a fact but that line is my signature on all guitar forums)

 

That says a whole lot.

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China makes a whole lot of stuff but I am surprised they are a source for industrial machinery, if something in my business experience from many years ago they were looking to buy machinery from the US, Mexico and Canada.

 

Where is this knowledge of CNC machines that Gibson uses being built in China?

 

We live in a very global economy...my cup of coffee is made in China but my Colombian coffee still tastes Colombian.

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