Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Could someone justify this for me?


LarryUK

Recommended Posts

I said the machines that build Gibson guitars are built in China but the machines are making guitars in Nashville. (I do not know this for a fact but that line is my signature on all guitar forums) What I am implying is that there is very little craftsmanship in guitar manufacturing today.

 

 

Wait, hang on now, so you do not know for a fact that the CNC machines are made in China?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Well, the actual differences...

 

Trad - back - up to 3 pieces of what ever mahogany is about.

Reissue - one piece of the finest and lightest mahogany Gibson have. = Still wood and more work to glue three pieces together?

 

Trad - neck joint - short rocker tennon

Reissue - neck joint - long tennon = Totally irrelevant just a a tenon.

 

Trad - hardware - chrome

Reissue - hardware - nickel = As above.= Just a plated finish.

 

Trad - wiring - modern

Reissue - wiring - 50s (volume and tone interact differently) = Perhaps a bit more work. But wiring still has to be done. Cost is similar.

 

Trad - pots - modern 300k linear

Reissue - vintage type 500k audio taper = a pot is a pot when bought in bulk.

 

Trad - headstock - unspecified overlay

Reissue - headstock - holly veneer = As above. A few cents difference. Still a glued on veneer.

 

Trad - finish - modern high plasticisor nitro (quite thick)

Reissue - finish - vintage type low plasticisor nitro (quite thin) = Still has to be applied in the same way.

 

Trad - bridge - nashville tune-a-matic attached by inserts

Reissue - bridge - abr1 tune-a-matic, studs strait in to wood = As above again. Still a metal part bought in bulk.

 

Trad - neck angle - 5 degrees (stoptail floating to prevent the strings touching the back of the bridge)

Reissue - neck angle - < 4 degrees ( stoptail bolted firmly to body) = 1 degree in indistinguishable.

 

Trad - top carve - modern (no recurve)

Reissue - top carve - more vintage accurate (slight recurve) = All possible by machine at no extra cost..

 

There is no discernible difference in the two manufactures above that would incur a cost at over three times the difference. Hence.. Profiteering.

 

 

To me. When I look at a company like 'Historic Makeovers. That is what a custom shop should be.

http://www.historicmakeovers.com/.

Do you all concur this statement? Why should someone buy a re-issue and have to take it there to be made into an authentic item?

Gibson should make them as Historic Makeover finish them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll tell you what has brought about be making this post. I've been watching video's on You Tube and I feel Gibson don't put enough care into their instruments as some others do. Especially PRS. Watch the two manufacturers and then comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest farnsbarns

Well, the actual differences...

 

Trad - back - up to 3 pieces of what ever mahogany is about.

Reissue - one piece of the finest and lightest mahogany Gibson have. = Still wood and more work to glue three pieces together?

 

Trad - neck joint - short rocker tennon

Reissue - neck joint - long tennon = Totally irrelevant just a a tenon.

 

Trad - hardware - chrome

Reissue - hardware - nickel = As above.= Just a plated finish.

 

Trad - wiring - modern

Reissue - wiring - 50s (volume and tone interact differently) = Perhaps a bit more work. But wiring still has to be done. Cost is similar.

 

Trad - pots - modern 300k linear

Reissue - vintage type 500k audio taper = a pot is a pot when bought in bulk.

 

Trad - headstock - unspecified overlay

Reissue - headstock - holly veneer = As above. A few cents difference. Still a glued on veneer.

 

Trad - finish - modern high plasticisor nitro (quite thick)

Reissue - finish - vintage type low plasticisor nitro (quite thin) = Still has to be applied in the same way.

 

Trad - bridge - nashville tune-a-matic attached by inserts

Reissue - bridge - abr1 tune-a-matic, studs strait in to wood = As above again. Still a metal part bought in bulk.

 

Trad - neck angle - 5 degrees (stoptail floating to prevent the strings touching the back of the bridge)

Reissue - neck angle - < 4 degrees ( stoptail bolted firmly to body) = 1 degree in indistinguishable.

 

Trad - top carve - modern (no recurve)

Reissue - top carve - more vintage accurate (slight recurve) = All possible by machine at no extra cost..

 

There is no discernible difference in the two manufactures above that would incur a cost at over three times the difference. Hence.. Profiteering.

 

 

To me. When I look at a company like 'Historic Makeovers. That is what a custom shop should be.

http://www.historicmakeovers.com/.

Do you all concur this statement? Why should someone buy a re-issue and have to take it there to be made into an authentic item?

Gibson should make them as Historic Makeover finish them.

 

I by no means agree with all of what you say there but that's not going to be my point. The question was asked "what's the actual difference", I answered it factually. None of the above can be called irrelevant in that context, those are the actual differences, I never said any of it made the reissue better overall. I do think some of those things are better but not all, that's beside the point though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does not look like you are looking for an answer really,

 

It looks like you have made up your mind based on youtube videos and what you "feel",

 

I'll take my R8 over any PRS you put in front of me not matter how pretty it is.

 

I stopped reading when you said "still wood"

 

If it does not make a difference to you, then it doesn't make a difference....to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion there are differences and I would say it should When you see the price differences. I hope the woods are different and bumblebee electronics cost more. But to be honest I really like my trad perhaps more than my custom. I think everyone should follow his ears and feel at thé end if one day you'll be famous perhaps Gibson will do a signature series base on your 'cheap' studio that you like so much and sell it for 6000$

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a studio. It's got an ebony fretboard too, so I'm happy with it. I wouldn't give my name to a product unless it was value for money anyhow. The world is profit driven too much now. I'm working class and I'm sick of being ripped off, so come to the UK and have your eyes opened to rip-off land.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, that is a different issue altogether.

 

There is no reason to get hung up on marketing though, thta's why I posted that $20,000 Gretsch. There is a guy out there with a $250,000,000 bank account that will buy that guitar and that does not bother me one bit, I wish I was that guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a studio. It's got an ebony fretboard too, so I'm happy with it. I wouldn't give my name to a product unless it was value for money anyhow. The world is profit driven too much now. I'm working class and I'm sick of being ripped off, so come to the UK and have your eyes opened to rip-off land.

 

It was not an attack against you, if you took it like that I apologize, truly. I didn't even know you have a studio, it was just an exemple and I am shocked as well by the unrealasistic price I see for Gibson, PRS and stuff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here in the UK we get everything overpriced. Would you pay $10.00 for a gallon of diesel? That's what bugs me so much. I'd personally say an extra £1500 over the Traditional model would be enough for a custom shop. Then perhaps £500 for a sig on top of that. But £15000 for a Pearly Gates is taking the P***. In the end, it's the working man that pays for these products. we earn the rich their money. It's time the were some more revolutions going on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its simple... Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There are no reasons in terms of what it actually costs.. They sell it for what they think they can get away with (which is what most business's do).

 

If they wernt selling theyd put the prices down.. Its the one thing I have found and I dont understand it either... In my guitar shop every Limited Etd or Artist model normaly sells out on pre-order yet ive seen some amazing models that have been in there for years and the price drops like 10% each year..

 

Big companies use that sort of information to maximise profits and make guitars they know will sell.. If someone thinks somehow it makes their guitar better to have an artist model or a limited edition well then thats up to them, they will pay for it.. For people that dont we will get the Standards and stuff we want.. Its all good, its not like there is a lack of choice in the Gibson line up?

 

This is a good example. From what ive read its a totaly limited edition guitar and is the sort that will probably rise in value (another reason people buy these sort of guitars).. but has been in the shop for maybe two years.. Because its not really been advertised much so people arnt aware of what exactly it is.. Alot of this does come down to marketing.

2012-04-03130312.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here in the UK we get everything overpriced. Would you pay $10.00 for a gallon of diesel? That's what bugs me so much. I'd personally say an extra £1500 over the Traditional model would be enough for a custom shop. Then perhaps £500 for a sig on top of that. But £15000 for a Pearly Gates is taking the P***. In the end, it's the working man that pays for these products. we earn the rich their money. It's time the were some more revolutions going on.

Not to be an A**hole or anything, but what are you going to revolt against? Your perceived idea of disparity in the world? NOTHING about life is "fair", that is the way of things. No economic model is perfect, though some are better than others and allow those that work hard and make wise decisions to prosper. I am not what I would term "rich" , but I do well for myself. I have worked hard all my life ,started a small HVAC company and sold it, and now own a growing small loan company, all the while working for an "evil" corporation ( AT&T ). As a young man, I recognized where I was in life, identified where I wanted to be and set out to achieve my goals. Has it been easy ? No, but it has been a rewarding journey. Sitting around lamenting your lot in life and vilifying the successful leads to envy and jealousy. Get over it !!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, Fellow Babies.

Hey, Searcy, thanks for the apology, man. I've been impressed with your tech knowledge, but more so by the apology. I dropped out of a forum a few years back because some of the participants resorted to flaming anyone who dared make any comment that ran afoul of their own view. I mean, some of them were just nasty and venomous -- man, I just have enough serious problems in real time and space, I didn't need the aggravation. Thanks for recognition and desire to hang on to civility, this is the place for friends, discussion, camaraderie, a few tall tales, and maybe beer.

 

And thank you, farnsbarns, for researching and reporting the differences in the guitars. Part of a products design process, to determine the cost of manufacturing to a certain set of design specifications, a single item must be built to determine the number of hours spent milling and shaping, the amount of materials consumed, stock used from inventories, the hours of electricity, rent, the man-hours and payroll, the number of workers, the time on the assembly line, etc., etc. Until then, cost is only speculation, only then can a factory determine the true costs to build any product. This is an important problem, especially if there is any doubt that the product can be sold at a profit. The makers could justify some of the increased costs in that the the eloborate efforts to shape the body, neck attachments, etc., if the results in significant cost over the original or standard item. After that, marketing and advertising will take over to try to find a market, to position their product within that market, to create and mold an image for the product, and to understand the demographics of their target customers, and tweak the product in the most favorable direction.

 

However, there is no law that forces a manufacturer to sell his product in some ratio of manufacturing costs to sales price. If in fact he can sell the product at all. Some of you may doubt that there is any risk, but products die off all the time because they failed to find a market at all, or they never manage to find any customers beyond some small regional customers. And then there are some companies whose products and marketing strategy have pushed them to a plateau where their products are perceived by their customers as unquestionably superior and desirable over any other similar product... at that point, they can build a line of standards, reissues, custom shop this, professional that ... and charge higher prices. Once upon a time just twenty years ago, the guitar companies just sold standards models, but somewhere in the last twenty or thirty years they all realized that there is a huge market for special guitars. Read bragging rights. Some guys will enjoy feeling superior to you because they own a massively expensive guitar --- you may be able to play better in a dozen categories, but you can't afford a diamond encrusted, platinum plated, gold inlaid, semi-hollow, rarest.... But They Can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading the Premier Guitar article about Heritage guitars,they really look like they could be one of the best bargains among North American made guitars.Other than the plain Jane headstocks they are made in the tradition of the old Gibson solid body and semi hollow body electrics.They have the old fashioned artisan's approach to guitar building and still use many of the trusted old methods,yet still manage to keep cost down and apparently still make a decent profit.I wouldn't think twice about ordering a new Heritage guitar sight unseen as I know now that they are one company that still takes the old world pride in guitar making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, Fellow Babies.

Hey, Searcy, thanks for the apology, man. I've been impressed with your tech knowledge, but more so by the apology. I dropped out of a forum a few years back because some of the participants resorted to flaming anyone who dared make any comment that ran afoul of their own view. I mean, some of them were just nasty and venomous -- man, I just have enough serious problems in real time and space, I didn't need the aggravation. Thanks for recognition and desire to hang on to civility, this is the place for friends, discussion, camaraderie, a few tall tales, and maybe beer.

 

And thank you, farnsbarns, for researching and reporting the differences in the guitars. Part of a products design process, to determine the cost of manufacturing to a certain set of design specifications, a single item must be built to determine the number of hours spent milling and shaping, the amount of materials consumed, stock used from inventories, the hours of electricity, rent, the man-hours and payroll, the number of workers, the time on the assembly line, etc., etc. Until then, cost is only speculation, only then can a factory determine the true costs to build any product. This is an important problem, especially if there is any doubt that the product can be sold at a profit. The makers could justify some of the increased costs in that the the eloborate efforts to shape the body, neck attachments, etc., if the results in significant cost over the original or standard item. After that, marketing and advertising will take over to try to find a market, to position their product within that market, to create and mold an image for the product, and to understand the demographics of their target customers, and tweak the product in the most favorable direction.

 

However, there is no law that forces a manufacturer to sell his product in some ratio of manufacturing costs to sales price. If in fact he can sell the product at all. Some of you may doubt that there is any risk, but products die off all the time because they failed to find a market at all, or they never manage to find any customers beyond some small regional customers. And then there are some companies whose products and marketing strategy have pushed them to a plateau where their products are perceived by their customers as unquestionably superior and desirable over any other similar product... at that point, they can build a line of standards, reissues, custom shop this, professional that ... and charge higher prices. Once upon a time just twenty years ago, the guitar companies just sold standards models, but somewhere in the last twenty or thirty years they all realized that there is a huge market for special guitars. Read bragging rights. Some guys will enjoy feeling superior to you because they own a massively expensive guitar --- you may be able to play better in a dozen categories, but you can't afford a diamond encrusted, platinum plated, gold inlaid, semi-hollow, rarest.... But They Can.

 

There are tons of things I will not buy, discretion rules my purchases , not emotion. I also feel no superiority over anyone, I just realize the amount of hard work and sacrifice it required to get where I am in life. Just passing on life's lessons to those who want " revolutionary change". There is one enduring factoid in life... No matter what , someone always wants to be the top dog before, during and after your revolution. Trading one tyrant for an even worse tyrant is usually the norm , study up on how pleasant it was in Russia after the Czar was replaced by the criminals Lenin / Stalin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some guys will enjoy feeling superior to you because they own a massively expensive guitar --- you may be able to play better in a dozen categories, but you can't afford a diamond encrusted, platinum plated, gold inlaid, semi-hollow, rarest.... But They Can.

 

And there's the reverse snobbery where some guys claim their cheap guitars play better than more expensive guitars,

 

The guy with the nicer guitar may play better but they will say he has more money than sense...mind you, he has the sense to be smart enough to make more money but somehow not smart enough to chose a guitar that is priced within the range off someboy else's budget.

 

What you describe is what I call the anonymous guitar hero of the internet, the guy that plays the cheap guitar and plays better than anyone else. *I* would like to meet this guy and take lessons, because I own both cheap and expensive guitars but damned if my playing isn't terrible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, hang on now, so you do not know for a fact that the CNC machines are made in China?

 

As a former CNC worker I can tell you that the better automated one's are Mazak, Okuma and Haas. Not the only ones on the market but Mazak and Okuma are Japanese and the Haas is German. The last company I worked for also made there own specialized stuff and adapted these machines with each other and modified gear. I believe the Mazak's and Haas's ran better but the Okuma is much easier to operate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool, thanks for the info.

 

I only have experience from the business side, contracts and such, I remember other businesses where we dealt with machinery from Switzerland, Germany and England in addition to the others I mentioned, this is machinery in general.

 

I'd still like to know where this information on Chinese made CNCs that are good enough to import and use for mass production. Methinks this is part of internet folklore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, Fellow Babies,

 

I'm not naming anyone to whom I am responding, because I don't want them to think, "he's calling me out! We're gonna slap leather!" Long winded, but it's what I think; and if you don't like "long-winded", don't read this.

 

I already broke my heart paying for the Gretsch, I love it, but I'm not paying that kinda money again. I discovered that I am more happy with buying good, used electrics and fixing or modifying them to my tastes, and I have gotten more satisfaction for thousands less. I know my self well enough that *I Know* that buying a $5000 guitar is out of the question. I have a case of "buyer's remorse" that strikes with needle talons and 6 inch fangs at any buy over about $400. That last motorcycle nearly finished me....

 

It's about how the guitar feels in your hands. I don't care how they built it or with what adjustments, and custom mods, if you can't play it comfortably, if you can't do your string bends, your right hand cannot find a comfortable position, you can't comfortably play above the 12th fret ---- why buy it? For instance, on the single issue of comfort, I can't really enjoy a Strat. First the neck is located so far right of it's center, that the 12th fret and above hang at about the center of my torso; and I am really uncomfortable trying to play beyond the tenth fret while standing. By contrast, most electric hollow body guitars sit with their necks thrust well to my left, and are very playable for me. Another issue with the Strat, is that my right little finger is always snagging on the volume knob whether I sit or stand. They are great guitars, I really like their voice, but I have always liked the Jazzmaster better. Okay, I've bought two of 'em, but no more.

 

Your guitar needs to fit you and your style. That's personal. I play finger style, and with a pick. That imposes problems because sometimes a playing style imposes a specific limitations, and, unfortunately, I've never found a guitar that serves both a rock 'n' roll blues style with lots of bends and a finger style. Where I want to use a lot of bends, I use a light gauge string with the strings raised slightly higher than a guitar I would use for finger style. Also with a Strat -for example - adjusted for rock and blues, the fingernails of my my right hand repeatedly snag on the adjusting screws of the pickups. Also, if your style uses a lot of tapping, then you probably prefer a low string action rather than have the strings raised. Also, with the super light strings, the top three strings just don't have the mass to "ring" when playing finger-style country straight without heavy distortion and other assorted effects. So for my needs, I want at least two different guitars.

 

Now if all your emotional needs are satisfied with a particular style of playing, great. Malmsteen, for instance, has committed to one particular style, but that style has imposed drastic limits on his personal guitar. Admittedly an extreme example, but true. Maybe Malmsteen is right that the scolloping was necessary for his style, but for me that's too extreme. You've finally developed your hand to press the string to the fret - at speed, now you have to learn to use just exactly the right pressure to stay in pitch instead of raising the note so you don't sound out of tune. How long before you master this? I've experimented with a scolloped neck, and it is clear that it would take a long time to adjust just single note playing; playing so slowly that you cannot detect a melody, I can do this, but every note started above pitch, and I had to deliberately release pressure on the string until I could hear the proper pitch. Easy with my first finger, nearly impossible with my pinky. Single notes, eventually, do-able. Chords -- yikes. My feeling is that it is a step backward or sideways for most accomplished players. This is re-learning a skill, and I am unwilling to commit a few hundred or thousand hours to do this. I think I recall that, early on, he stated that the scolloping was for speed. That might have impressed me once, but his solution is too limiting to any other style, and I've never heard anything from him that inspired me to want to use his technique.

 

Malmsteen's style, then, is a limiting example: it requires modifying the guitar to such an extreme as to nearly close-out any other style. Notice that he most frequently uses Fender; I presume it's for the bolt-on neck. I can't tell if it's the most expensive model. Until about a decade ago, Fender was the low-priced entry-level professional model compared to Gibson and Gretsch. Okay he has the money and the reputation that he might persuade a factory to build a traditional hollow body electric to his specifications, or maybe pay a skilled luthier to rebuild a factory glued-in neck. Okay, so he can prove one little guy on the internet - me - wrong about bolt-on necks: but that would only prove my point, not withstanding that Malmsteen can play, a rich guy can have whatever he wants. Most of us will have to be satisfied with a factory standard.

 

I have played a lotta different brands, and I can detect no real improvement in my playing on a guitar that costs a couple of hundred dollars, and one that costs thousands. Oh sure, there can be monstrous differences between a $100 guitar and the $200 or $300 break. I admit that the more expensive guitar, with a better neck and electrics may have a better overall intonation above the 15th fret.

But in most cases ••• I defy you••• to detect any real difference in a $500 electric compared to a $4000 guitar.

I'm not talking about number of on-board gadgets, kind of pickups, finish, etc. Those are irrelevant. The question is does the guitar allow you to play comfortably, can you play in your own style, etc., not does it look like and exactly duplicate the sounds of your guitar hero.

 

There's a lot of people in the guitar universe who believe some pretty strongly about ideas that are, at best, subjective, mythic, and largely unprovable. How do you disprove the belief of the faithful? And remain civil? The fellowship of the guitar needs civility, recognition that were are all traveling the same road together. It's important that we all remember we share an interest among ourselves that you maybe can't share with anyone else who hasn't spent thousands of hour learning and playing -- even in your family. Besides, there are people who believe in magic feathers who also are guitar freaks. Gotta tolerate 'em, can't go shootin' 'em every time they pop up. And by "magic feathers" I'm referring to the Disney movie Dumbo in which the little circus elephant thought he could fly because he was given a "magic feather."

 

In the guitar universe, the "magic feather" is the belief - probably unconscious - that if you only had the best, most expensive equipment, the best woods which the best luthiers used their best skills to build the best, most elaborately fussed-over and decorated guitar, the amplifier where the best of the High Amp Elves used their best spell, the best and the most effects pedals then ***and only then*** you could be the greatest guitarist. You can hear this every time a 12-year old want-a-be plugs in a the Guitar Center. The first three power chords of Smoke on the Water blasts from $10,000 of assorted equipment ------ and in seconds you realize ------ that's all he's got. It's hard not to sound good for a couple of seconds with all those effects, but without experience, knowledge, thousands of hours of practice... there's no magic that can fix that. Don't you all know there are plenty of classical musicians - especially violinists - who will pay upwards of a million dollars to own and play a Stradivarius?

 

Considered to be among the top of any any list of the greatest violinist of all time, Jascha Heifetz without a Stradivarius would still be Heifetz. Truly, frankly I ***do not *** believe that just owning a wildly expensive guitar improves anyone's playing.

 

But so as long as we have people who believe in magic feathers, we'll have massively over-priced guitars. You just wait, there are already used guitars whose owners want tens of thousands of dollars just because those guitars were previously owned and played by some minor guitar celeb. More magic feather stuff----maybe some of the original owner's spirit still lingers in the guitar... I've already seen a least twenty of these with prices ranging from $12,000 to 75,000.

 

Clearly, the people who buy these guitars are just a step away from eating the guitar, or maybe burning it so they can inhale the smoke in the hopes that they can add the spirit mojo to their own.

 

Suppose some guitar manufacturers, watching the used-market, could start behaving like the owners of diamond mines. Instead of selling all the guitars they can every year. they might only release, say, 100 world-wide annually? In spite of rioting in the streets, the least expensive guitar might start at $100,000. Coming soon to a store near you, just as soon as the manufacturers read a significant demographic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure, I just bought a Gretsch Double Jet used for $300 but it is a $600 street price.

 

I am modifying this guitar for fun and to have it as a beater.(it is already pretty beat up)

 

-Heavy as hell, even though it is supposed to be chambered,

-Resonance is not that great IMO, a bit of a stiff guitar,

-Neck is made of several pieces, one of the joints is right on the base of the headstock, will it ever fail?

-Electronics are garbage, from the pots to the pickups.

-Tuners are low quality, bridge was collapsed, nut was plastic.

-Frets are so soft a lot of folks have to refret these guitars (ask Kaleb here in the forum)

 

Is a $2,000 similar Gretsch better? my defying answer is yes. I know this because I have played both and have inspected how they are built.

 

Paying the $2,000 is entirely up to the buyer,

 

If the $600 Gretsch is good enough for you, then it is good enough...for you.

 

By the way I own a Squier 51 and love the guitar, I had to update the electronics and get the frets smoothed out but it is a great guitar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure, I just bought a Gretsch Double Jet used for $300 but it is a $600 street price.

 

I am modifying this guitar for fun and to have it as a beater.(it is already pretty beat up)

 

-Heavy as hell, even though it is supposed to be chambered,

-Resonance is not that great IMO, a bit of a stiff guitar,

-Neck is made of several pieces, one of the joints is right on the base of the headstock, will it ever fail?

-Electronics are garbage, from the pots to the pickups.

-Tuners are low quality, bridge was collapsed, nut was plastic.

-Frets are so soft a lot of folks have to refret these guitars (ask Kaleb here in the forum)

 

Is a $2,000 similar Gretsch better? my defying answer is yes. I know this because I have played both and have inspected how they are built.

 

Paying the $2,000 is entirely up to the buyer,

 

If the $600 Gretsch is good enough for you, then it is good enough...for you.

 

By the way I own a Squier 51 and love the guitar, I had to update the electronics and get the frets smoothed out but it is a great guitar.

 

 

Here is my DuoJet Mod It's hanging at the Legends Restaurant now.

post-15512-099327800 1340480940_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the actual differences...

 

Trad - back - up to 3 pieces of what ever mahogany is about.

Reissue - one piece of the finest and lightest mahogany Gibson have.

 

Trad - neck joint - short rocker tennon

Reissue - neck joint - long tennon

 

Trad - hardware - chrome

Reissue - hardware - nickel

 

Trad - wiring - modern

Reissue - wiring - 50s (volume and tone interact differently)

 

Trad - pots - modern 300k linear

Reissue - vintage type 500k audio taper

 

Trad - headstock - unspecified overlay

Reissue - headstock - holly veneer

 

Trad - finish - modern high plasticisor nitro (quite thick)

Reissue - finish - vintage type low plasticisor nitro (quite thin)

 

Trad - bridge - nashville tune-a-matic attached by inserts

Reissue - bridge - abr1 tune-a-matic, studs strait in to wood

 

Trad - neck angle - 5 degrees (stoptail floating to prevent the strings touching the back of the bridge)

Reissue - neck angle - < 4 degrees ( stoptail bolted firmly to body)

 

Trad - top carve - modern (no recurve)

Reissue - top carve - more vintage accurate (slight recurve)

 

 

I believe reissues also have a lighter stoptail?

 

There is clearly more work, better or more expensive materials, re-tooling etc involved in making the reissues. Does this "justify" the price difference? Only you can decide that. You have found the most expensive R0 I've ever seen there though. My R8 has cost me £2159.

 

Edit: further thoughts: in order to justify anything it must seem unjust first. I don't see how, in an open market for luxury goods, a price can be seen as unjust. GuitarGuitar choose their price, you choose whether to pay it.

 

Edit 2: even more thoughts: I bet I can get at least a grand of the reissue, I bet I can't get a penny of the trad.

 

This whole post is what, frankly, drives me crazy about Gibson, and why I have a love/hate relationship with them.

 

Everything you say here is true, but inevitably leads me to believe that buying a Traditional essentially means buying a second-rate product. And I just can't justify spending that kind of money for something that is second-string, especially when I could buy a PRS - each of which is essentially a custom-made instrument - for the price of a Traditional.

 

Buying something from the Custom shop may be worth it, but when it comes to simple value for the money - removing the emotional component - Gibson is losing my faith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but the real savings is on the "Free Shipping on orders over $49", so count that as a win [biggrin]

 

Man, only $20,000 for "the" guitar that George played? And, no sales tax with free frt. Good to go!! Sounds like they could get double that price on ebay. I wonder what the last song was that he played on it? [confused]

 

 

Maybe I should buy this and then try to sell it to Hard Rock Cafe! That's American Capitalism at it best baby! [biggrin]

 

Aster

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...