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New Specs for J200 Custom...compromises ...


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Ummm you're saying that other guitar manufacturers like Gibson and Martin are not mass producing instruments? Why would Taylor have to cease mass production of guitars and turn out 10's of guitars a day rather than 100's of guitars a day and other companies don't? I don't get your whole line of reasoning. Deciding to use currently discarded ebony from a legal source rather than continuing the practice of destroying 9 in 10 trees seems to me to be an excellent decision. Finding ways to obtain illegal wood to mass produce guitars doesn't sound like a great decision to me.

 

And I DON'T bow at the feet of Bob Taylor. I admire him and like my Taylor 12. I adore my Gibsons. I'd adore my Gibsons even more even if they had little markings in the ebony and the company was run by such a person as Taylor.

 

If you want your own specifications for a J200, then have the custom shop build you one to order (BTO).

 

Your first post said "..is now going to Rosewood...(and if it is not going to be Madagascar rosewood its a change for the worst)"

 

'Splain to me Lucy... why is Bob Taylor FORCING Gibson NOT to use ebony and not allowing them to use Madagascar rosewood?

 

Your complaints sound more like a rant and a vent about Gibson having to change rather than any real arguments. And your judgement on the quality of Taylor guitars is purely subjective.

 

drat, please (re-)read RARs note - acoustic guitars consume a small percentage of the worlds hardwoods. We just had a cherry (hard as maple) floor put in for three rooms and it cost atout the same as a high end Gibson or Martin. Brazil rainforest wood is used for pallets or burned. Same in Madagascar. It is the green leaning countries that impose upon themselves standards that the countries like India don't really care about. Consumer packaging, styrofoam, etc. is never going to 'go green' because people really don't care . Look at the trend to buy those cheap woven plastic bags in grocery stores and Walmart so we could re-use them and not use plastic ones. Pretty much died on the vine. We use to get asked 'plastic or paper'? but even though paper was more 'green', the stores stopped using it because consumers preferred plastic. My point? Bob Taylor, like most companies now a days has added the word 'green' to his Mission Statement. Last year he probably added the word "diversity' and the year before whatever the fad word was at the time. Yes - Taylor mass produces guitars. They make tenfold more than Gibson Acoustic. That means he uses more wood, probably has more 'waste' and makes more money in the process. I am sorry, but when Taylor scarfs up on the premium ebony a few months after Gibson's rosewood inventory from India is confescated by the Federal Government even though legally exported from India, I smell something Fishy and Fowl. Im not going to nominate him for CEO of the year just becuase he is making more money than Gibson and is better at shmooze.

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drat, please (re-)read RARs note - acoustic guitars consume a small percentage of the worlds hardwoods. We just had a cherry (hard as maple) floor put in for three rooms and it cost atout the same as a high end Gibson or Martin. Brazil rainforest wood is used for pallets or burned. Same in Madagascar. It is the green leaning countries that impose upon themselves standards that the countries like India don't really care about. Consumer packaging, styrofoam, etc. is never going to 'go green' because people really don't care . Look at the trend to buy those cheap woven plastic bags in grocery stores and Walmart so we could re-use them and not use plastic ones. Pretty much died on the vine. We use to get asked 'plastic or paper'? but even though paper was more 'green', the stores stopped using it because consumers preferred plastic. My point? Bob Taylor, like most companies now a days has added the word 'green' to his Mission Statement. Last year he probably added the word "diversity' and the year before whatever the fad word was at the time. Yes - Taylor mass produces guitars. They make tenfold more than Gibson Acoustic. That means he uses more wood, probably has more 'waste' and makes more money in the process. I am sorry, but when Taylor scarfs up on the premium ebony a few months after Gibson's rosewood inventory from India is confescated by the Federal Government even though legally exported from India, I smell something Fishy and Fowl. Im not going to nominate him for CEO of the year just becuase he is making more money than Gibson and is better at shmooze.

 

I don't know the numbers, but if you add Gibson's entire guitar making business and not just the Montana plant, I'd expect the numbers might balance a little more. I'm sure Gibson/Epiphone makes a LOT of electric guitars and basses.

 

I think that fishy smell comes from the process the Indian rosewood went through to get to Gibson. I also think it is a bit of a stretch to figure that Taylor "scarfed" up that ebony in a reaction to the raids at Gibson. I think Taylor was looking out for his own business and not looking to take advantage of Gibson's bad business practices.

 

Edit: I just did some searching... nothing scientific but here are some numbers... lets see if they are real or not.

 

Gibson has the capacity to build 700 guitars a day in their electric guitar plants. Let's be conservative and say the plants operates at 80% efficiency for 48 weeks a year at 5 days a week. That's 240 working days a year putting out 560 guitars a day = 134400 guitars.

 

Gibson Bozeman makes say 12,000 guitars a year (plus Gibson/Epiphone Canada acoustics?)

Gibson Epiphone Korea, Indonesia, Japan, China (3 plants), Korea, Czech Republic

 

Martin makes 70,000 guitars a year (zombywolf's 2009 numbers)

Taylor makes 50,000 guitars a year (zombywolf's 2009 numbers)

 

Last I looked Martin and Taylor did not make many electric guitars (Taylor makes the T3/T5 and the new solid bodies but not a lot of them).

 

By my count, Gibson has 12 guitar manufacturing plants worldwide. That's a tad more than Taylor's two plants (one in El Cajon and one in Tecate).

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I don't know the numbers, but if you add Gibson's entire guitar making business and not just the Montana plant, I'd expect the numbers might balance a little more. I'm sure Gibson/Epiphone makes a LOT of electric guitars and basses.

 

Doug ,

 

I hadn't thought about that and I agree .

 

 

 

 

JC

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Honestly, the form of Taylor bashing expressed here makes no sense. Whether you're looking at US production or worldwide production of musical instruments, Gibson is the big boy on the block, and consumes far more in resources than any other US owned instrument manufacturer. And do not forget to factor in all the other brands Gibson owns besides Gibson & Epiphone (Baldwin, Kramer, etc). I'm not a fan of Taylor guitars, but this appears to be a brilliant business move. Obviously the initial intent in the forest purchase was not to Go Green, but if an environmentally friendly side benefit can be part of the package, it's all to the good.

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Ummm you're saying that other guitar manufacturers like Gibson and Martin are not mass producing instruments? Why would Taylor have to cease mass production of guitars and turn out 10's of guitars a day rather than 100's of guitars a day and other companies don't? I don't get your whole line of reasoning. Deciding to use currently discarded ebony from a legal source rather than continuing the practice of destroying 9 in 10 trees seems to me to be an excellent decision. Finding ways to obtain illegal wood to mass produce guitars doesn't sound like a great decision to me.

 

And I DON'T bow at the feet of Bob Taylor. I admire him and like my Taylor 12. I adore my Gibsons. I'd adore my Gibsons even more even if they had little markings in the ebony and the company was run by such a person as Taylor.

 

If you want your own specifications for a J200, then have the custom shop build you one to order (BTO).

 

Your first post said "..is now going to Rosewood...(and if it is not going to be Madagascar rosewood its a change for the worst)"

 

'Splain to me Lucy... why is Bob Taylor FORCING Gibson NOT to use ebony and not allowing them to use Madagascar rosewood?

 

Your complaints sound more like a rant and a vent about Gibson having to change rather than any real arguments. And your judgement on the quality of Taylor guitars is purely subjective.

 

Hi

Martin is Mass Producing guitars at an almost a Terminator level...and has achieve an almost perfect averageness right across the board.

Moving to Indian Rosewood from ebony on fingerboard is a change for the worse on that guitar.(J200 Custom)

From the video I understood (as I have not seen it again) that Mr.Taylor is, with an arrangement from that countries government, cornering the supply of this last bulk source of Ebony.

Bob Taylor very possibly, directly or indirectly, is where Gibson Guitars has to go to get it..or may have to eventually go to get it.

 

Who would have ever thought the blandest guitar maker of them all would end up dictating terms to a Gibson for example.

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Sometimes I wonder if a thread topic is drug-induced. For a moment I find myself feeling jealous. Then I realize that I'm good with relative sobriety.

 

Pardon the interruption. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

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Consumer packaging, styrofoam, etc. is never going to 'go green' because people really don't care . Look at the trend to buy those cheap woven plastic bags in grocery stores and Walmart so we could re-use them and not use plastic ones. Pretty much died on the vine. We use to get asked 'plastic or paper'? but even though paper was more 'green', the stores stopped using it because consumers preferred plastic.

Slightly off topic, but some places like Portland, Oregon and Austin, Texas (where I live) have passed laws making it illegal for grocery stores to provide bags, meaning that everyone will be forced to "go green" by providing their own bags. I get the sentiment, but I think it's pretty stupid. The law doesn't go into affect here for another year, so it will be interesting to see how people adapt. We have a good supply of our own bags, but I can never remember to bring them inside. I guess I'll have to pay more attention pretty soon.

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Slightly off topic, but some places like Portland, Oregon and Austin, Texas (where I live) have passed laws making it illegal for grocery stores to provide bags, meaning that everyone will be forced to "go green" by providing their own bags. I get the sentiment, but I think it's pretty stupid. The law doesn't go into affect here for another year, so it will be interesting to see how people adapt. We have a good supply of our own bags, but I can never remember to bring them inside. I guess I'll have to pay more attention pretty soon.

 

Like any transition, there will be the "outraged" souls who are pretty miffed, while I can see the frustration of not being provided or sold bags as required I guess the overall aim is quite worthwhile if you take a longer view. As you say, it'll force people to think about it and adapt.

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Slightly off topic, but some places like Portland, Oregon and Austin, Texas (where I live) have passed laws making it illegal for grocery stores to provide bags, meaning that everyone will be forced to "go green" by providing their own bags. I get the sentiment, but I think it's pretty stupid. The law doesn't go into affect here for another year, so it will be interesting to see how people adapt. We have a good supply of our own bags, but I can never remember to bring them inside. I guess I'll have to pay more attention pretty soon.

Yes. For those who don't know - Austin's proud of its being a small island of different-ness in Texas. Hence their motto - Keep Austin Weird! Confluence of huge UT and other colleges with many graduates staying in Austin, being the state capital and largest live music performance city in the US. The bag law isn't much different than the super sized drink law in NYC. Big Brother getting more and more into our lives was the central point of the protest music many of us here grew up with in the Sixties. It just seems at times that songs like "Blowing in the Wind", "Birmingham Sunday"" and even "Little Houses Made of Ticky Tacky" had no impact!

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