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bailey99

SJ200 losing its finish

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My 5 year old SJ200 has a 1.5 x 1.5 inch section near the end pin that is bare wood! The nitro finish has flaked off. Anyone else ever had this? I'm hoping an authorized Gibson repairman will fix this for me for no charge. Any advice would be welcome as to the best way to handle this.

 

By the way, it is not expanding and doesn't effect any playability...no issues other than cosmetic.

 

Thanks!

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Sounds to me like one of two things, although I can easily be wrong on this.:

 

There was oil or whatever on that place on the box before finishing, or...

 

Something got onto the finish and/or wood afterward.

 

And... regardless, is something rubbing on that area?

 

It seems to me that a some sort of anti-finish chemistry is involved before or after the finish coat was applied - or I s'pose it's possible that the finish wasn't properly applied in a given place and it bubbled, then cracked, then flaked.

 

m

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Bailey99

I would suggest looking at that area from the inside of the guitar. It may be possible that some moisture may have collected there at one point or another and soaked thru... Just a possibility. That can happen from improper use of a humidifier. If you are able I would like to see a picture from the inside and the outside.

A service center may be able to shed some light as well.

JM

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JM obviously knows a lot more about it than I do...

 

As for the interior photo, that can be difficult due to a number of lighting considerations. If your cell phone camera - small and easy enough to put into the sound hole - won't be focused at that distance or if it doesn't have a little LED "flash" that works, there are some options.

 

Most amateur digital or pro digital cameras should be able to focus at two feet or so. A mirror in the box placed under the sound hole tipped at about a 45 degree angle should work both to reflect light from a flashlight or whatever into the box, and for the image to be captured.

 

It probably would be too close for a built-in flash not to blast the image into perdition. A piece of truly white paper over or otherwise partially or entirely blocking the flash (but letting light through) may work, depending on a given camera and settings.

 

All the above may mean loosening and/or removing strings to get them far enough apart for the above to work best.

 

Also a flashlight can change color values that might help JM figure what happened. Most flashlights will probably add a yellow or red tone to the photo even if the camera has automatic white balance. So-- if you don't have a photo processing program to get it to look color-wise like what you see, you may want to mention that to JM since color of the inside may mean something to the guitar pro that I'm not.

 

m

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.

Moisture maybe . . . but the end block is there on the inside. Is the damage outside the area of the end block?

 

Possibly the installation of the endpin damaged the finish and caused it to lift and crack. After some time passed the finish flaked off. I've seen this happen without actually damaging the wood. Some may have seen the same type of damage around the tuning posts if the bushing nut is tightened too much (pic below).

 

Another possibility is the guitar was at some point contacted on the end pin or on the area where the damage is. While in the case or in hand, the guitar was set down with just enough force for contact to cause the finish to lift in that area and flake off.

 

FinishSeperate.jpg

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.

Moisture maybe . . . but the end block is there on the inside. Is the damage outside the area of the end block?

 

Possibly the installation of the endpin damaged the finish and caused it to lift and crack. After some time passed the finish flaked off. I've seen this happen without actually damaging the wood. Some may have seen the same type of damage around the tuning posts if the bushing nut is tightened too much (pic below).

 

Another possibility is the guitar was at some point contacted on the end pin or on the area where the damage is. While in the case or in hand, the guitar was set down with just enough force for contact to cause the finish to lift in that area and flake off.

 

FinishSeperate.jpg

 

Very insightful BK!There are many possibilities. At the least a picture of the outside would be helpful. An inspection of the inside to see if there are any water stains will tell you if that is even a possible cause. I look forward to the picture of the end pin area to see if any of us can be of help.

JM

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Regarding the inside photo

 

You could try using a mirror and photographing the reflection

 

Might have to play with lighting so you do not need a flash

 

Not tried my self, so only my thoughts

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Note my photo suggestions above.

 

For what it's worth, I ain't talented, but taking pix have been part of my paycheck for going on 47 years.

 

This is an oddity for a pix, and a bit of hassle - but shouldn't be rocket science.

 

m

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Note my photo suggestions above.

 

For what it's worth, I ain't talented, but taking pix have been part of my paycheck for going on 47 years.

 

This is an oddity for a pix, and a bit of hassle - but shouldn't be rocket science.

 

m

 

 

sorry had not read your post, hence my post [thumbup]

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Greg...

 

No problem...

 

In ways this is a pretty difficult shot; in others it's pretty simple to figure if you're into photography from a technical standpoint. I see about four ways I'd try to do it myself and in each case, having PhotoShop would make things a lot easier, especially concerning color balance with what kind of lighting is involved. E.g., a reddish look to a "spot" inside the guitar might mean one thing, and a yellowish look something else - and all that can be screwed up for the real expert who might troubleshoot by color and have the color he sees that different from what is apparent to the eye with what one might call a neutral white balance.

 

One concern to me is color which can be difficult to get "right" when Gibbie experts try to figure whether or what it's something that dripped internally or that was on the exterior - and if the latter, what was involved.

 

Color is a lot of fun to mess with, and each computer monitor, ads to the contrary, will change things too. Heck, I was driven crazy by a cupla deals where presses ran somewhat nonstandard patterns that made almost violent color changes - as in Coca Cola red to a yucky orange. @#$%$#%#@$ Computer monitors can be as bad even though they seem fine just looking at them. And our eyes lie to us anyway under certain conditions.

 

m

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.

 

 

Another possibility is the guitar was at some point contacted on the end pin or on the area where the damage is. While in the case or in hand, the guitar was set down with just enough force for contact to cause the finish to lift in that area and flake off.

 

FinishSeperate.jpg

 

 

I have seen this before. Usually outside of the case, but I have seen it happen inside the case of some instruments (never a modern Gibson Acoustic case, but you find something new everyday!)

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My 1991 J-30 developed flaking finish spots along the edge of the fretboard - no idea why as the guitar was definitely babied. However, once the problem areas were patched up, that was the end of the story. No other areas of flaking developed over the next number of years that I owned the guitar.

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Bailey, good quality pix are important here, obviously, inside and out. Some members have a lot of experience &knowledge and can offer suggestions or hypothesize as to the cause, probably the right diagnosis would come from some here. But I would think that for an actual free repair and to ensure ther isnt something else going on that might create future problems - you might need to contact the dealer where you bought it new and have them refer you to the closest authorized warranty repair location. Having your SJ200 in hand will make it possible for them to determine what needs to be done and if it is covered under warranty. At least it would seem that would be the quickest and most reliable way to get your baby made whole. G'Luck!

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Forty...

 

Jeremy Morton is a Gibson acoustic staff member... I can't imagine anybody much better to be in contact with.

 

m

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Forty...

 

Jeremy Morton is a Gibson acoustic staff member... I can't imagine anybody much better to be in contact with.

 

m

 

 

I agree, it is great Jeremy already commented 2x above. Seemed to me though, that for a repair to be done under warranty - a physical inspection and diagnosis by an outhorized Gibson Service Technician would be required to confirm whatever forum members photograph based conjectures might be here. Humidifier damage, dropped on the endpin - possibly by a previous owner - would all suggest the OP would have to pay for the repair. Case in point, the 'chrome' trim paint is flaking off the tailight trim on my new car. Do I go to a Ford customer forum to garner support for a request for a free repair or bring it in to the dealer service department?

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Bailey99

I am sending you a PM with my direct email address. When you have a picture please send it to me via email. I do the warranty evaluations here at the factory. if you are the second owner? The guitar would not be covered under warranty. At the least i would like to see a picture so I can give you the best information possible.

JM

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post-7874-087159400 1342101108_thumb.jpgpost-7874-043124600 1342101181_thumb.jpg

Here are pics of the finish damage on my SJ200. Endpin was a factory install. Jeremy of Gibson suggested water damage from damp it, but I think that unlikely as I wring them out and wipe them down before installing. But anythings possible I guess. My guess is that I banged it into something (not hard enough to leave a ding) but hard enough to crack an already weakened finish? I don't know.

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Here are pics of the finish damage on my SJ200. Endpin was a factory install. Jeremy of Gibson suggested water damage from damp it, but I think that unlikely as I wring them out and wipe them down before installing. But anythings possible I guess. My guess is that I banged it into something (not hard enough to leave a ding) but hard enough to crack an already weakened finish? I don't know.

 

 

That looks like moisture damage to me.

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Here are pics of the finish damage on my SJ200. Endpin was a factory install. Jeremy of Gibson suggested water damage from damp it, but I think that unlikely as I wring them out and wipe them down before installing. But anythings possible I guess. My guess is that I banged it into something (not hard enough to leave a ding) but hard enough to crack an already weakened finish? I don't know.

 

post-7874-087159400 1342101108_thumb.jpgpost-7874-043124600 1342101181_thumb.jpg

 

 

That's well outside of the end block and it looks like moisture damage.

 

 

.

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But wouldn't the wood (maple) itself show some discoloration if it was moisture damaged? It seems unaffected.

 

 

Not necessarily. Some woods discolor when they get wet, others do not. What makes me suspicious is the way the finish has gone opaque adjacent to the area where it is lifted. That look generally means water penetration from inside the finish. The finish might well lift like this if moisture on the inside of the guitar migrated through the thin (1/8") sides of the guitar, creating vapor pressure under the finish and lifting it.

 

I think Jeremy Morton from Gibson should chime in on this, even though it is only speculation without a first-hand inspection.

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Bailey99

 

It appears that something liquid has altered the state of the lacquer. I cannot speculate as to what it was. Whatever it was altered the nito finish to cause it to flake. Anyone can tell you that Nitro does not flake but rather checks or crack when the wood below it cracks. In the Gibson Warranty paperwork it ststes that lacquer is not covered under warranty. I do however think that a skilled luthier with alot of experience with nitro can repair this for you quite well without breaking the bank. If you would like help finding someone please let me know and i will try to refer you to someone in your part of the country. I know this is not likely what you want to here but I will help how I can.

All the best

Jeremy Morton

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