Re: The truss-rod adjustment of the 'Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-II Electric Guitar'

[macmac 0]

Hi

I'd be really grateful for some practical advice please.

 

I've got the Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-II Electric Guitar.

(who's spec says that the 'Truss Rod' is a: double-action, 2-way)

 

BTW: This is the LP Epi with the addition of an acoustic pick-up discreetly positioned at the end of the fretboard, and apparently it's body is hollowed out slightly, to add an acoustic chamber.

 

FIRST: I must say, that it would be really helpful and responsible of Gibson,

if they would make this kind of information readily available, easy to understand, and easy to find.

 

Then perhaps Gibson's valuable customers, could concentrate on playing our very expensive purchases,

rather than having to waste endless and unnecessary time fixing them !!!

 

They should also acknowledge that a forum as this, as good as it is,

is no substitute for responsible customer support !

 

But it is however a valuable great tool for them, giving them access to all this market research for free !

So they have absolutely no excuse for not creating the best guitars on the planet.

At the moment, I feel they are simply trading on a name, that the 60's elevated to the position that they are currently basking in.

 

Moan Over !

 

I know that truss-rod-adjustment has been debated at length before, however, I have a very similar issue to that of BSS, at: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/75827-new-epiphone-truss-rods/

 

(see his pics of the truss-rod-adjuster on his 'Studio Dot' which are the same as mine)

 

and perhaps 'seattleguy' at:

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/87595-please-help-me-find-an-ultra-339-that-doesnt-have-fret-buzz/

 

After changing the original heaver strings for lighter strings (to: .009 / .042) I get some fret buzz, which is worse on the bass strings.

 

I tried raising the bridge quite a bit on the bass side, which is not really satisfactory.

 

I checked the Neck-Relief which is slight,

so I tried to adjust the truss-rod to add more Neck-Relief.

 

I believe that this requires me to turn the allen-key-anti-clockwise, but after a slight adjustment, the truss-rod goes loose, in fact it's head (where I inserted the allen-key) pulls forward as I try to remove the allen-key !

 

So it seems that the body-end of the truss-rod has unscrewed from its anchor ?

 

(I didn't think that this was supposed to happen ?)

 

I can re-attach the truss-rod to its anchor, by turning the allen-key-clockwise, but obviously this doesn't solve my Neck-Relief problem, but just makes it worse.

 

However: If I press inwards on the truss-rod and continue to turn the allen-key anti-clockwise, then the truss-rod tightens again, and does seem to add some Neck-Relief.

 

So the questions are:

a: Is this normal for this type of truss-rod ?

b: If so, how does it achieve it (if it's no longer connected to its anchor) ?

 

and c:

People say that you shouldn't continue to adjust the truss-rod if it goes tight, but by definition, it has to go tight, in order for it to meet the resistance of the truss-rod channel, so that it can apply pressure to the neck.

 

So the real question is: (As I'd like to add more Neck-Relief) how tight is tight ?

 

I'd really appreciate your advice, especially if you've had this problem, with this type of guitar/truss-rod and solved it.

 

Many thanks.

[kidblast 1,365]

What we're not seeing here is how much have you turned the truss rod in your efforts to set relief at this time? It should not require more than 1/2 turn in, in most cases, a 1/4 turn either way will be enough to add or remove relief. The truss rod should not be tightened to the point where there is no longer any room to adjust it, and it should not be so loose as to be turning freely.

 

And it's the same as a normal screw or bolt, (lefty loosey, righty tighty). If you are in unsure territory, the best advice is to get it to a luthier and have him take a look.

[bigneil 351]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

FIRST: I must say, that it would be really helpful and responsible of Gibson,

if they would make this kind of information readily available, easy to understand, and easy to find.

 

There is a huge amount of information available on the internet on how to adjust and set up guitars, although Gibson has a recommended string height for les pauls it's really just a fluffy guide line as almost every player will favour a different setup for different styles of music or technique.

 

Then perhaps Gibson's valuable customers, could concentrate on playing our very expensive purchases,

rather than having to waste endless and unnecessary time fixing them !!!

All guitars will need adjustment made on a regular basis in order to maintain the players preferred setup.

 

As a general rule of thumb you can use the string as a straight edge using a capo at the first fret and holding down the 6th string at the body fret and measuring the gap from the underside of the string to the top of the fret halfway between the capo and the body fret, this is not an exact science either, as player preference comes into play here too, but roughly speaking should be between 0.2 and 0.5 of a mm on an electric guitar. I personally don't measure it I just push down on the string in the middle and see if it feels right.

 

with a double acting truss rod there should be couple of turns of slack between bending the neck one way, and bending it the other.

 

and c:

People say that you shouldn't continue to adjust the truss-rod if it goes tight, but by definition, it has to go tight, in order for it to meet the resistance of the truss-rod channel, so that it can apply pressure to the neck.

 

Common sense should prevail here, as you pointed out there will be some sort of resistance when turning the alan bolt as the rod is acting against the pull of the neck wood, but if you get to a point where you are going to have to give it some proper force to turn it then stop and take it to a tech.

[RobinTheHood 578]

Yes, I would take it to a tech and get his opinion. It is possible that the frets need a little leveling. Unfortunatley, this is becoming an increasing problem with Epiphone, it seems. On the other hand, a fully loosened truss rod should create a lot of bow in the neck to a noticable degree. If you already have some forward bow and still get buzz, then it sounds like a fret level is in order.

 

I recently bought a '61 SG Special P-90 LE that is in need of some serious fret roll-off from 12-22. Action at spec creates buzz on almost every string in the upper register. Its a tad high right now, and going from 10 guage to 9's didnt really help either. But it wouldnt be the first time I had to do a roll-off on a guitar, so it is what it is for the time being until I have the time to do a little work to it.

[macmac 0]

Thanks everyone for your replies so far.

 

After changing to the lighter strings:

The TR was originally just under tension, and there was virtually no relief.

So the neck appeared straight.

 

And I only backed it off ACW about 1/8 turn then it went loose.

 

Continuing ACW while pressing in the TR, started to tighten the TR and gave some relief.

 

So I've only moved it about 1/8 to 1/4 turn ACW, so it should adjust further without too much resistance.

 

But I'm puzzled as to what type of construction this dual TR actually is,

would it be like the bi-flex on the fender ?

[macmac 0]

Hi,

So anyone have an idea about how this (double-action, 2-way) Truss-Rod actually works ?

Thanks

[Lefty Bill 22]

I agree with your earlier comments regarding Epiphone/Gibson's reluctance to make certain technical details more readily available to instrument owners.. and one might conclude that this forum might be the most useful place to make the details available, however, many/most questions regarding such details seem to be essentially ignored by customer support folks, and generally only get answered by other owners who are forum members not connected to customer support.

 

I suppose that the manufacturers would not want to promote amateurs from doing adjustments which they don't fully understand, so maybe that's part of the truss rod adjustment "silence" issue.

Improper adjustment of a truss rod could potentially damage an instrument, so there's that perspective. Supporting the authorized dealers' "after the sale" profits may be another aspect, where dealer techs should be knowledgeable and experienced concerning TR adjustments.. hopefully less likely to cause any damage than an inexperienced owner.

 

First, it should be understood that the truss rod doesn't just flex the neck into the desired relief position.. tension of the strings does that, and it generally doesn't occur instantly, the response of the wood may take time to change to the adjustment (overnight, or a day or two).

 

In the forum DIY section (and elsewhere) the method most recommended is to loosen the tension of the strings before attempting TR adjustments, then re-tune the strings to their normal tension, wait to see the results of the adjustment (relief measurement), and repeat if necessary.

So the actual function of the TR is to oppose the tension of the strings, and gently oppose/affect the straightness/bow of the neck/fretboard wood.

 

I recently removed the fretboard from a 2011 model, and have presented what I discovered..

Dual action truss rod link

 

My Flickr Dual Action Truss Rod Set link

 

Bill

 

 

Hi, So anyone have an idea about how this (double-action, 2-way) Truss-Rod actually works ?

Thanks