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What Do You Think "Ruined" or "Negatively Impacted" Rock?


kaleb

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This book has A LOT to offer on the current state of R n R and popular culture. The title is maybe a little bit misleading, it's not only about pop culture's tendency to look back but much more how information technology has triggered a socio-cultural revolution that most of us aren't quite aware of.

 

This book is great. A real eye-opener, you can make much more sense of the times we're living in...

 

Highly recommended.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Retromania-Pop-Cultures-Addiction-Past/dp/0865479941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342439091&sr=8-1&keywords=retromania

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Guest farnsbarns

The Beatles. The beginning of the concept of a manufactured image and sound to open up the widest possible market.

 

That said, you've got to remember that we, the willing, actually are to blame for allowing it and buying in to it. Now, on here I'm talking to a bunch of musos who don't really fit the demographic of "we the willing" but society in general has bought the idea, wholesale.

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Guest farnsbarns

I just plussed you Farnsie but I meant to minus you. I mean The Beatles??????? [blink]

 

Alas, they did away with minuses. It's funny how differently the Beatles are perceived either side of the pond. I don't think I know anyone who is in any way a fan over hear yet it seems they are a staple over that side.

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Guest farnsbarns

I think rock is just fine.

 

...if we could only change what's being played on the radio...

 

You get a plus for that. The real bottom line here is you have a choice and there is plenty of great music around, to suit any taste.

 

Might I suggest not listening to the radio though. A 1tb drive, a large mp3 collection (based upon your cd collection of course, NEVER rip your friends CDs ;) ) and a player with shuffle, a couple of mood based playlists and you're off.

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Guest farnsbarns

Boring Old Farts thinking rock should stay exactly as it was back in the days when they were young.

 

P.

 

Were you actually young once? Wait, was I? Bah, who cares, get off my lawn.

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all is well with rock n roll

 

You still hear backyard parties with rock bands rather than the hip-hop stuff in our neck of the woods.

 

As longs as there are still electric guitars and Marshalls to buy, rock will live on.

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I think of rock and roll as being in a constant state of evolution. There are things about it that suck, and there always have been, but that just makes way for a new artist to emerge down the line and change things. -Kind of a reactionary thing.

 

If I had to think of one thing that stinks about music right now, I'd have to say maybe irony playing a bigger part in artists deciding on what they're going to do than actual artistic expression.

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all is well with rock n roll

 

You still hear backyard parties with rock bands rather than the hip-hop stuff in our neck of the woods.

 

As longs as there are still electric guitars and Marshalls to buy, rock will live on.

 

Yeah!

 

It seems that rock guitar these days is all about how much gain you can use or how low you can tune your guitar. It's really all about texture nowadays.

 

I think the missing link (besides bands that can write real, genuine, kicka$$ rock tunes) is guitar solos. Even the "guitar bands" of now either have simple, space-filling solos or no solos at all.

 

This generation needs a guitar hero. One that will make kids wanna get up and learn their solos note for note. Someone to bring in a new style. It's time for a new EVH, Hendrix, Page, or Slash. Someone that actually has a great tone that people will try and replicate and whom uses the vibrato like it's nobody's business. Someone that's not afraid to turn a Marshall stack on 11.

 

When I think about it, the last "guitar heroes" were the likes of Slash and Wylde.....

 

There are guitar heroes out there (Bonamassa, Gilbert, Vai, etc), but they're not reaching the kids that need them. Not like EVH did in 1978.

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IMHO...Over production (including "auto tuning" and "Pitch control"), Sampling, and Homogenization have negatively influenced Rock. Rock will never die, but it may morph into something unrecognizable, by traditional standards?!

 

CB

I think we have a winner. This is actually a real answer.

 

I think "over-production" and trying to get the best recording above and beyond the musicians abilities has always been. But with the technology we have today, it makes PLAYING your instrument well or having actual talent less needed.

 

It has given rise to forms of music that don't even require musicians or any playing at all...and poeple actually are listening to it.

 

And also as well, the popularity of playback like computers and MP3's means there is less fidelity to be had. In combination with "pitch correction", and I would add the over-use of digital mixing like pro-tools, means that in the end result, one is hard pressed to be able to even hear the different between a good musician and a fair one.

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I think we have a winner. This is actually a real answer.

 

I think "over-production" and trying to get the best recording above and beyond the musicians abilities has always been. But with the technology we have today, it makes PLAYING your instrument well or having actual talent less needed.

 

It has given rise to forms of music that don't even require musicians or any playing at all...and poeple actually are listening to it.

 

And also as well, the popularity of playback like computers and MP3's means there is less fidelity to be had. In combination with "pitch correction", and I would add the over-use of digital mixing like pro-tools, means that in the end result, one is hard pressed to be able to even hear the different between a good musician and a fair one.

 

Don't forget compression and red lining during the mastering process. That's what's ruined it for me. There are a lot of newer genres and bands I wouldn't mind if I could get through a song without so much damn ear fatigue. What? You don't trust that I know how to work a volume knob?

 

Over all I think music in general has been ruined by media consolidation and payola. Labels from top to bottom are run by bean counters and people that could give a rats a$$ about music. Artists are not allowed to develop and mature. They are expected to have a platinum album out of the gate. And the making of that album puts the band so far into debt when you add on the unnecessary costs of that $50k music video and paying program directors to get the songs into heavy rotation. I think this is why you are seeing a lot of bands telling the labels to take a long walk off a short pier. Not sure if it's still this way, but when I came up it used to be if you had good songs and were willing to pour yourself into non stop touring, you could get by and quit that stupid day job. Money wasn't made selling albums, it was made touring.

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Kiss and Rush

Sorry I disagree. How did RUSH ruin or negatively impact Rock? If anything, they heavily influenced many people, including me, to pick up a guitar and learn to play. Even KISS had influence, but not negatively.

 

JMHO. [biggrin]

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Sorry I disagree. How did RUSH ruin or negatively impact Rock? If anything, they heavily influenced many people including to pick up a guitar and learn to play. Even KISS had influence, but not negatively.

 

JMHO. [biggrin]

 

 

He's trollin' kaleb!

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Don't forget compression and red lining during the mastering process. That's what's ruined it for me. There are a lot of newer genres and bands I wouldn't mind if I could get through a song without so much damn ear fatigue. What? You don't trust that I know how to work a volume knob?

 

Over all I think music in general has been ruined by media consolidation and payola. Labels from top to bottom are run by bean counters and people that could give a rats a$$ about music. Artists are not allowed to develop and mature. They are expected to have a platinum album out of the gate. And the making of that album puts the band so far into debt when you add on the unnecessary costs of that $50k music video and paying program directors to get the songs into heavy rotation. I think this is why you are seeing a lot of bands telling the labels to take a long walk off a short pier. Not sure if it's still this way, but when I came up it used to be if you had good songs and were willing to pour yourself into non stop touring, you could get by and quit that stupid day job. Money wasn't made selling albums, it was made touring.

Yup..

 

I have seen this myslef.. I worked in computer games for nearly 15 years.. In the beginning it was about being creative and making great and original games.. As soon as it went commercial (in about 1995/6) the money men came in, shareholders took over and by about 2001/2 it was all about proving your idea to marketing and they would not greenlight anything they didnt understand.. Since they wernt gamers they wouldnt know a good idea if it smacked them on the face... Now its just full of licensed games (like movies and stuff) and sequals.. VERY SAD STATE INDEED.

 

And the same is said for any creative industry.. as soon as its about the money the creativity is fogotten.. (also the same can be said for sport. these footballers they pay obscene amounts too, do they REALLY care when they have that much money?).

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Don't forget compression and red lining during the mastering process. That's what's ruined it for me. There are a lot of newer genres and bands I wouldn't mind if I could get through a song without so much damn ear fatigue. What? You don't trust that I know how to work a volume knob?

 

Over all I think music in general has been ruined by media consolidation and payola. Labels from top to bottom are run by bean counters and people that could give a rats a$ about music. Artists are not allowed to develop and mature. They are expected to have a platinum album out of the gate. And the making of that album puts the band so far into debt when you add on the unnecessary costs of that $50k music video and paying program directors to get the songs into heavy rotation. I think this is why you are seeing a lot of bands telling the labels to take a long walk off a short pier. Not sure if it's still this way, but when I came up it used to be if you had good songs and were willing to pour yourself into non stop touring, you could get by and quit that stupid day job. Money wasn't made selling albums, it was made touring.

 

I'm sure I could use some pitch correction, but that's not the way I like to roll!

 

The media is catering to the bottomfeeders: people that don't know anything about music but need it as a soundtrack to their lives. It's watered down fake garbage if you ask me. Record companies are only interested in garbage; I'm sure they would turn down you and I. It's always been that way. I mean, back in the early 70s, Epic turned down both Rush and Skynyrd. And everybody knows about the idiot A&R guy at Decca that turned down The Beatles and stated that "guitar groups are on their way out". Stupid idiots.

 

Back in the day, bands were touring nonstop and cranking out albums left and right.

 

Now, it's all singles, an album every couple years, and broken up tour schedules.

 

That's how all our favorite bands got to be real good: NONSTOP TOURING!

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Well, I don't think Rock and Roll has been ruined, but then I reject the notion that any type of music can be ruined by a band or event. What's in the mainstream may be rendered un-listenable by a current fad or trend, but that doesn't make everything suck.

 

The fact the Oingo Boingo and Brittany Spears are both dance music in no way diminishes Oingo Boingo.

 

"Negatively Impacted"? That's another story.

 

Narrow Mindedness and Short Attention Spans!! Those have had the most negative effects on Rock and all types of music since the industrial revolution. Narrow minded listeners who think a bands work is useless after the newness wears off. Narrow minded record execs who are afraid to try anything new and untried, even though they work in the marketing and producing of Art! Narrow minded audience members who turn on the artist for exploring a different avenue (even though their live show still reflects the best of their work). Audiences that forget about an artist because it took them 3 years to release a new album.

 

It would be nice if people listened to music instead of wearing it like a pair of hip sun glasses. And it would be nice if the industry didn't nurture and encourage that type of behavior in the market.

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Sorry I disagree. How did RUSH ruin or negatively impact Rock? If anything, they heavily influenced many people, including me, to pick up a guitar and learn to play. Even KISS had influence, but not negatively.

 

JMHO. [biggrin]

 

Even I knew he was jokin' around....

 

Rush is responsible for a lot of the good stuff around these days (or in the past 20 years). Bands like Tool, Dream Theater, etc, wouldn't be around if it wasn't for Rush. You can tell Adam Jones (guitar player for Tool. Plays a killer Silverburst Custom!) has some Lifeson influence. And I think Alex has been listening to him as well....Given the style and tone he took on for Snakes & Arrows and Clockwork Angels.

 

KISS on the other hand, say what you will, but they influenced many in the 70s to start a band. Ace has even been called one of the most influential guitar players of his time (post-Page, pre-EVH). Many rock guitar players of the 80s and early 90s (including Slash, Mike McCready of Pearl Jam, and Paul Gilbert) cite him as one of the reasons they play guitar. Even George Lynch and EVH got some stuff from him. (Lynch was featured in his Behind The Player DVD that came out a couple years ago. He said after hearing the first KISS record, he was hooked. George was in a glam band in the late-70s and he was essentially another Ace: he wore makeup and had a lightning bolt on his outfit!). They have had an impact on Punk, Hair Metal, Thrash (Anthrax and Megadeth have covered a few KISS tunes over the years), Grunge, heavy rock (GnR, The Cult, etc), and of course theatrical rock. Whether this means something special is subjective, but I don't even think Van Halen had this kind of impact. While it's not virtuosic music in any way, shape, or form, it's great straight-ahead rock n' roll with strong melodic content, and it's CATCHY AS HELL! And when I'm in the mood for that, I'll put the needle on Alive! or Rock And Roll Over. And if I want to go into the next dimension, I'll listen to 2112.

 

I still think the cliches and stereotypes about what a band is "supposed to be" had a negative effect on rock music altogether.

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Just my opinion, but KISS represents almost everything that is wrong with R&R.

 

And what is that?

 

Probably just the overkill merchandising stuff, which I couldn't care less about TBH.....

 

I like the music and entertainment, nothing more.

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