BigKahune Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 . Over in the Lounge, Californiaman posted a thread on an interesting bit about Gibson job postings - possible reorganization? From his post: The following are all Nashville based positions: VP Corporate Development Chief Operating Officer VP Procurement General Manager—Gear Research and Development Director Director of Engineering Director of Global Learning and Development EVP Global Relations—Reports directly to CEO (Henry) And if you didn't think Gibson was going global, think again. President—Gibson India Chief Financial Officer—China There's plenty of other postings at Gibson Careers - http://www2.gibson.com/Gibson/Careers.aspx . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 ...and if you're too late to apply for one of these posts now, the same positions will be open again in 6 months time. BOOM Tish :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yikes! That sounds like a major organizational shake-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I notice the manufacturing (guitar production) jobs in Memphis (the only ones listed) are described as working in an "aggressive, fast-paced industrial manufacturing environment". Sounds like a lot of fun as a career......(not) Doesn't that sound like what they used to call a "sweatshop"? I hope they pay well. How does Bozeman fit into the corporate picture? Are they a world unto themselves, with their own culture and processes? I certainly understand the need for efficient production, as much as we like to think of guitar building as a true craft, rather than a manufacturing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Do they accept remote location positions - I'd gi for the global learning gig ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Ooo..lots of paper pushers and barkers.. Unfortnately I don't see an opening for the team of old world Italian guys for my suggested "1930's Room" where all Acoutics would go to maximize the voicing of the tops & do a bit of handwork like they used to in the 30's : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Ooo..lots of paper pushers and barkers.. Unfortnately I don't see an opening for the team of old world Italian guys for my suggested "1930's Room" where all Acoutics would go to maximize the voicing of the tops & do a bit of handwork like they used to in the 30's : ) Face it, Gibson isn't a small shop. Despite a fair bit of hand work, it is a manufacturing facility and increasing sales is the primary objective. I don't say that in a disparaging way. To me, Gibson is delivering a quality instrument that I couldn't be happier with. Capitalism is about increasing profits. Changing the products every so often keeps current customers coming back for more and brings new customers into the fold. The reason the small builders who tune the tops to your delight are in business is because Gibson and Martin don't anymore. The vast majority of small builders are making their own renditions of Gibsons and Martins. I know, Lowden isn't one of them. The reason Taylor has been at the forefront of CNC machine use, bolt on necks and UV cured finishes is they can manufacture more efficiently employing these innovations. Bob Taylor struggled for many years building guitars by hand trying to make a buck. He just couldn't turn out the volume he needed building in a purely traditional way. You have to accept that it takes a different business model to do what you're suggesting. In Gibson's case, that ship sailed decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lblack Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Gibson as a corporation is more than guitars. Take a look at the acquisitions, etc. over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Face it, Gibson isn't a small shop. Despite a fair bit of hand work, it is a manufacturing facility and increasing sales is the primary objective. I don't say that in a disparaging way. To me, Gibson is delivering a quality instrument that I couldn't be happier with. Capitalism is about increasing profits. Changing the products every so often keeps current customers coming back for more and brings new customers into the fold. The reason the small builders who tune the tops to your delight are in business is because Gibson and Martin don't anymore. The vast majority of small builders are making their own renditions of Gibsons and Martins. I know, Lowden isn't one of them. The reason Taylor has been at the forefront of CNC machine use, bolt on necks and UV cured finishes is they can manufacture more efficiently employing these innovations. Bob Taylor struggled for many years building guitars by hand trying to make a buck. He just couldn't turn out the volume he needed building in a purely traditional way. You have to accept that it takes a different business model to do what you're suggesting. In Gibson's case, that ship sailed decades ago. Keep in mind that the Gibson corporation is a grouping of smaller divisions which are largely autonomous. The acoustic division in Montana is a different beast than Epiphone or the electric guitar business. The bozeman factory is a factory, to be sure, but it is a pretty small place, only about 100 employees in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Face it, Gibson isn't a small shop. Despite a fair bit of hand work, it is a manufacturing facility and increasing sales is the primary objective. I don't say that in a disparaging way. To me, Gibson is delivering a quality instrument that I couldn't be happier with. Capitalism is about increasing profits. Changing the products every so often keeps current customers coming back for more and brings new customers into the fold. The reason the small builders who tune the tops to your delight are in business is because Gibson and Martin don't anymore. The vast majority of small builders are making their own renditions of Gibsons and Martins. I know, Lowden isn't one of them. The reason Taylor has been at the forefront of CNC machine use, bolt on necks and UV cured finishes is they can manufacture more efficiently employing these innovations. Bob Taylor struggled for many years building guitars by hand trying to make a buck. He just couldn't turn out the volume he needed building in a purely traditional way. You have to accept that it takes a different business model to do what you're suggesting. In Gibson's case, that ship sailed decades ago. But It does not have to be that way. This is a pretty big operation as well..but they do it as it was originally done...and the actual workshoppes seem pretty much isolated... When new owners bought that company from CBS (we were still paying off our upright) they had similar plans, as which seems to happen from wearing a suit too long..but the union & employees refused to allow any changes that would dilute the instrument or cheapen its integrity. Period. When we traded that in & began mortgage on the big one, some serious sharks were in the Hall in NY. But what we saw on the factory tour nearly 30 years ago is the same as one see's in this more recent movie. The documentry is no longer available on you tube but is worth seeing for anyone who loves instruments at the quirky human part of the things. And the pride these people have in em. Note by Note(The making of Steinway L1037) They are not running around under pressure rushing through these things. When I went to the Martin factory to have the Custom Shop guitar set up in 2004-5 the poor guy in charge of that Custom section over there looked like he was on the run & seriously under presure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 But It does not have to be that way. This is a pretty big operation as well..but they do it as it was originally done...and the actual workshoppes seem pretty much isolated... When new owners bought that company from CBS (we were still paying off our upright) they had similar plans, as which seems to happen from wearing a suit too long..but the union & employees refused to allow any changes that would dilute the instrument or cheapen its integrity. Period. When we traded that in & began mortgage on the big one, some serious sharks were in the Hall in NY. But what we saw on the factory tour nearly 30 years ago is the same as one see's in this more recent movie. The documentry is no longer available on you tube but is worth seeing for anyone who loves instruments at the quirky human part of the things. And the pride these people have in em. Note by Note(The making of Steinway L1037) They are not running around under pressure rushing through these things. When I went to the Martin factory to have the Custom Shop guitar set up in 2004-5 the poor guy in charge of that Custom section over there looked like he was on the run & seriously under presure. Interesting that Steinways are still made in the US, despite the high operating costs. The other great American piano brand--Baldwin--is now owned by Gibson. Baldwin pianos, even the $100,000 concert grand, are all made in China. In fairness, Baldwin was bankrupt when Gibson bought it and moved production offshore, so the jobs "lost" to China would probably have vanished in the US in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 But It does not have to be that way. This is a pretty big operation as well..but they do it as it was originally done...and the actual workshoppes seem pretty much isolated... When new owners bought that company from CBS (we were still paying off our upright) they had similar plans, as which seems to happen from wearing a suit too long..but the union & employees refused to allow any changes that would dilute the instrument or cheapen its integrity. Period. When we traded that in & began mortgage on the big one, some serious sharks were in the Hall in NY. But what we saw on the factory tour nearly 30 years ago is the same as one see's in this more recent movie. The documentry is no longer available on you tube but is worth seeing for anyone who loves instruments at the quirky human part of the things. And the pride these people have in em. Note by Note(The making of Steinway L1037) They are not running around under pressure rushing through these things. When I went to the Martin factory to have the Custom Shop guitar set up in 2004-5 the poor guy in charge of that Custom section over there looked like he was on the run & seriously under presure. Perhaps you're right that it doesn't have to be that way. The 8 part Bozeman factory tour w/Ren romanticized the building of Gibson acoustics in a similar way this trailer did (The trailer and associated film were certainly made at a much higher budget). The reality, however, is that the pages aren't going to be turned back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Gibson acoustic is what it is. But oddly and encouragingly, it remains pretty similar in scale, materials and construction techniques to the Gibson acoustic factories that have existed throughout the history of the brand. Of the big American acoustic builders, it is perhaps the most like its predecessor of a century ago. True, at the volume they produce (60 or 70 a day, if I remember right), they cannot afford to tap tune every top. When Ren was there you could negotiate that level of care on a custom and I would assume it is the same now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 There maybe some hope..maybe..this Henry really brought us back an excellent Les Paul..L5...pretty much all of them. And it took the will of that Henry guy & Ren Ferguson to revive the Gibson acoustic. And made them as good as a Martin. That is like a miracle. On 48th street a new Gibson Acoustic could not be seen for nearly 2 decades its reputation was so bad. If one appeared in the decade down there by some freak chance,it looked like a toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 "Fast Paced" is boiler plate corporate speak. Usually, this is for the benefit of the stock holders. Imagine if the job spec read, "Slow paced, come in whenever you want, 8 weeks vacation, liberal sick leave." If I were a stock holder, I'd be banging my shoe at the next stock holder's meeting. In Gibson's market, top end mass production instruments, they cannot afford to hire folks who take a lot of 'time' crafting a guitar. It is just not part of the Gibson business model. Making one guitar at a time, painstakingly crafting one off models is an art for which one guitar may be finished in a month. If a luthier can do this, he must command 5 figures for each and every guitar he/she makes. Otherwise that business dies, or the luthier starves. Yes, Gibson has it's custom shop, but that in no way resembles the one-a-month shops. "And if you didn't think Gibson was going global, think again. President—Gibson India Chief Financial Officer—China" The China one would be the Epiphone operation. The "Gibson India," intrigues me. Is this a method of reinforcing the legal importation of Madagascar, Indian and other Indy Rim (Indian Ocean) countries? This would give Gibson ownership of the parts/raw components before they arrive in the US. This may be a game changer in the importation of exotic woods. Is there or will there be, a Gibson production facility in India? For export to the US? What make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hi. Im not exactly meaning complete no compromise hand crafting from begining to end, though personally I believe it is best & prefer it done that way,. I think a no compromise neck joint fit ,and voicing of the body & top is where the machines need to be stepped aside.. I mean almost everything else is machine based in the place...and if they are going to slap on .. "Historic"... draw on tradition,the past ..and... a retail price of $7000+...these two little areas would at least give some truth to it where it matters most. And..make the guitar more widely bought. To pay for it Id put ads out every other month instead of every month..that should help.. : ) After all an occational reminder should be good enough after 100 + years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The level of hand-crafting is about the same as it ever was at Gibson. Lloyd Loar used to do some tap tuning; it was the exception rather than the rule. A lot of the cutting and shaping is now done with cnc machines. Better consistency. The dovetail is still the old-fashioned way with hot hide glue. Some are dreaming of some fabulous Gibson hand-crafted boutique guitar past which never actually existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The level of hand-crafting is about the same as it ever was at Gibson. Lloyd Loar used to do some tap tuning; it was the exception rather than the rule. A lot of the cutting and shaping is now done with cnc machines. Better consistency. The dovetail is still the old-fashioned way with hot hide glue. Some are dreaming of some fabulous Gibson hand-crafted boutique guitar past which never actually existed. Something I havent mentioned in the whole Ren-fest that typically goes on here is in the videos JC posted just how much was machine done for a "handbuilt" guitar... seeemed like very nearly end-to-end processing was done by some kind of machine (and a load of fire-house hose pipes). certainly narrowed my expectations of "handbuilt" some what...... Wont be a popular post, but just saying....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Something I havent mentioned in the whole Ren-fest that typically goes on here is in the videos JC posted just how much was machine done for a "handbuilt" guitar... seeemed like very nearly end-to-end processing was done by some kind of machine (and a load of fire-house hose pipes). certainly narrowed my expectations of "handbuilt" some what...... Wont be a popular post, but just saying....... These factory guitars like Martin and Gibson have always been made with fancy jigs and setups. You don't think they had one guy standing at a station building one guitar, do you? It's an assembly line and always has been. The jigs and setups are modern now and use computerized versions of power tools, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You don't think they had one guy standing at a station building one guitar, do you? I Nah, Jerry, I didn't assume that, but there's a certain amount of that is painted to the end-user when we tlk of Gibson acoustics. t's an assembly line and always has been. The jigs and setups are modern now and use computerized versions of power tools, that's all. Couldn't agree more, its a contradiction in terms, but 'small mass producer' fits perfectly, even though this a Gibson forum and a Gibson-love-in is not unexpected the 'handbuilt' monicker is very very loosely applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The regular, non custom acoustic Gibsons are the most hand-built of contemporary American mass-produced guitars. If you think Gibson is automated go look at Taylor. No comparison. The Gibson assembly line actually looks pretty much like the old assembly lines of a century ago with slightly updated tools at similar stations of assembly with people moving them around and supplying enormous amounts of hand labor, like scraping lacquer off the binding. Taylor by comparison is more like a modern auto plant where the product is seldom touched by human hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The regular, non custom acoustic Gibsons are the most hand-built of contemporary American mass-produced guitars. If you think Gibson is automated go look at Taylor. No comparison. The Gibson assembly line actually looks pretty much like the old assembly lines of a century ago with slightly updated tools at similar stations of assembly with people moving them around and supplying enormous amounts of hand labor, like scraping lacquer off the binding. Taylor by comparison is more like a modern auto plant where the product is seldom touched by human hands. No disputing that at all, seen videoes of both.... however I still say "handbuilt" is loosely applied.... not that I'm *****ing, very happy with my guitars, but having seen the level of machinery involved I'd always be more inclined to lean towards 'manufactured' Vs 'handbuilt', comparison percentages can't derail the fact there's a lot of 'not very handbuilt' in play too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No disputing that at all, seen videoes of both.... however I still say "handbuilt" is loosely applied.... not that I'm *****ing, very happy with my guitars, but having seen the level of machinery involved I'd always be more inclined to lean towards 'manufactured' Vs 'handbuilt', comparison percentages can't derail the fact there's a lot of 'not very handbuilt' in play too. I recommend you go there some time and take the tour. The thing that most struck me and I believe a lot of attendees at the homecoming events was just how handbuilt Gibson acoustics still are. It's a very old-fashioned, traditional way of making a guitar. The finish involves tons of hand spraying, hand-sanding, hand-buffing. All the way through the guitar is constantly handled. Some of the modern touches, like shaping necks with cnc programs so every guitar of a given spec has the identical shaped neck, are an improvement on the old ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The regular, non custom acoustic Gibsons are the most hand-built of contemporary American mass-produced guitars. If you think Gibson is automated go look at Taylor. No comparison. The Gibson assembly line actually looks pretty much like the old assembly lines of a century ago with slightly updated tools at similar stations of assembly with people moving them around and supplying enormous amounts of hand labor, like scraping lacquer off the binding. Taylor by comparison is more like a modern auto plant where the product is seldom touched by human hands. The level of automation at Gibson is qualitatively closer to that at small manufacturers, such as Santa Cruz and Collings, than to that at Taylor. Another way of looking at it is in terms of the number of person-hours invested in building each guitar. Based on the latest numbers I've heard, the Taylor-to-Gibson ratio is pretty similar to the Gibson-to-Santa Cruz ratio. (But, of course, these things are constantly changing in an age when even one-person shops are adding CNC machines.) Get out, take some tours, and see for yourselves, folks! A video can make the process look as automated or as traditional as the videographer feels like. When you actually walk the floor, you see what's really going on in these places. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well Gibson acoustic is what it is. If you want boutique buy boutique. Want small shop get a Collings or Santa Cruz. The irony is that people are knocking Gibson as not handbuilt enough when it is the most traditional maker of its class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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