Rabs Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I just had a four hour jamming session (with myself :)).. (was just in one of those playin moods) My fingers are killing me, my arms are aching.... But it feels GREAT Just wanted to share that with people that understand :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I feel ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I feel ya! It was one of those where I was just actually practicing scales like over a blues progression.. and I could hear the improvement from when I started to when I finished. I love those types of sessions :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 It was one of those where I was just actually practicing scales like over a blues progression.. and I could hear the improvement from when I started to when I finished. I love those types of sessions :) Definitely. I get it when I jam with others and exceed my normal finger time or when I am testing out new pedals for a long time. Good for you AND good for your fingertips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The one concern of any sort of "practice" that enters the point of pain and/or exhaustion of various muscle groups is that the body has a tendency to find slight alternative angles and such to lessen the pain. As a whole, it may lead to better understanding of given technique, but it has the danger of leading to creation of habit of less efficient technique. I'm not speaking just of guitar practice sessions, btw, but of any physical skill that is being worked on for combined muscle and mental adjustment. I can't forget the old saw that practice does not make perfect, it simply makes habit. At any given level of comprehension of technique and physical skill, a change in technique requires somewhat different pathways for muscle pull and angles of various bones/joints to do what you want done. It's my observation that if efficiency in creating the new "habit" one wants, one might best do it while muscles are warmed up, but not tiring - and for guitar, without fingertip pain. This ain't guitar technique, but usually when I've seen martial artists injure themselves, it's because of relatively difficult technique lacking the correct smaller efficiencies and geometry. That's most frequently when tired or subconsciously/unconsciously compensating for a prior injury that still hurts. Guitar playing won't break your hand or disarticulate your knee or elbow, but less efficient technique given one's own physical geometry will not allow maximum performance of one's mental technical understanding. There's a place for boot camp training - and a place for a differing perspective on development of fine motor skills. OTOH... <grin> I'm as guilty as any for not wanting to stop practicing stuff I love doing and want to do better... #$@%@#$% m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hayden Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Been there!! any guitar player that says they haven't is lieing or doesn't play long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 OTOH... <grin> I'm as guilty as any for not wanting to stop practicing stuff I love doing and want to do better... #$@%@#$% m Thats the thing... it was more enjoyment than practice... I enjoy this pain after a long session like that, it means ive worked hard and enjoyed myself at the same time.. and hopefully (not nessecirily) improved on someting The pain never lasts very long.. Its like the same feeling you get when you work out.. you know your gonna ache the day after but its for the greater good.. I dont think ive ever actually pulled anything or suffered any serious damage from a guitar session like that (or when I used to be in a band and rehersals were four hours a session at least twice a week).. Its all good.. If I were the sort of person to over do it, id probably be a better player by now (or not as the case may be) :) :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I can't play that long, any longer. 4 hour "practice sessions" until my arms, hands and fingers ached has brought on some arthritic finger joints. Still play (every day), just not 4 hour "sessions'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I can't play that long, any longer. 4 hour "practice sessions" until my arms, hands and fingers ached has brought on some arthritic finger joints. Still play (every day), just not 4 hour "sessions'. Yes it is a rare for me to play quite that long... but was one of those times where time just disspaeared.. I didnt even know it had been that long until I finished.. (thats why I fealt the need to share the rare ocassion with you guys ;)) I too will probably suffer from arthritic pain when im older.. As well as playing guitar I used to test games for a livng (and play them alot at home).. and some of that was testing mobile games which towards the end I had trouble finishing a day doing that job.. Oh well.. thus is life :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Rabs... Heavy pt taking one to physical and/or mental exhaustion has its place. It sounds as if you haven't had much of that. It is useful in teaching one that one can almost inevitably draw on resources one normally wouldn't need to tap. But it's also somewhat dangerous in various ways, again, both physically and mentally. Except in some military units or certain "extreme sports," it seems to be pretty much out of style. It wasn't out of style when I was a kid. <grin> OTOH, usually it hadn't included use of fine motor skills at the point of physical/mental exhaustion (even "body part" exhaustion as we're more likely to get by not being in shape for a 4-hour band practice). Biathlon is an obvious exception in which one is trained to be the most efficient possible with a rifle while with a very elevated heart rate. The wise trainer of "limits" material will ensure that good habits in fine motor skills won't be sacrificed within an overall program. Outside military environments, though, it's difficult to maintain direction and control of someone's training program. And... often to their own detriment ... the true enthusiast inevitably will "practice" to the point that inefficiencies begin to become habit. Ah, we humans... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Rabs... Heavy pt taking one to physical and/or mental exhaustion has its place. It sounds as if you haven't had much of that. It is useful in teaching one that one can almost inevitably draw on resources one normally wouldn't need to tap. But it's also somewhat dangerous in various ways, again, both physically and mentally. Except in some military units or certain "extreme sports," it seems to be pretty much out of style. It wasn't out of style when I was a kid. <grin> OTOH, usually it hadn't included use of fine motor skills at the point of physical/mental exhaustion (even "body part" exhaustion as we're more likely to get by not being in shape for a 4-hour band practice). Biathlon is an obvious exception in which one is trained to be the most efficient possible with a rifle while with a very elevated heart rate. The wise trainer of "limits" material will ensure that good habits in fine motor skills won't be sacrificed within an overall program. Outside military environments, though, it's difficult to maintain direction and control of someone's training program. And... often to their own detriment ... the true enthusiast inevitably will "practice" to the point that inefficiencies begin to become habit. Ah, we humans... m Well if you think this is bad... Try being a computer games tester.. It was great the first few years... BUT imagine having to test the same game every day for 8 hours 5 or even 6 days a week for a year.. It became like mental and physical torture after a while... I worked on one game where I did two sequals straight after.. It meant that I was working on the same game for nearly five years.. Now that is pain.. To the point where (like aversion therapy training) I actually fealt physically sick when I picked up a game controller.. Its why its common in the industry for people to "Burn Out" if they dont get sufficient breaks and holidays from work.. But more often than not you just wernt allowed to take holidays as you were needed to get the game out on time (and they were always late with another game waiting to be finished). Needless to say, I dont to that for a living any more :) (thank god). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Rabs... Yeah, that's why some stuff is pretty well left to the young or short-timers. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Rabs... Yeah, that's why some stuff is pretty well left to the young or short-timers. m Indeed... thats exactly how it is.. school leavers and the young who they can pay way less so thats the way they like it Also with that experience.. im all too aware of my physical and mental limits... and what overdoing it can result in.. But in the case of my original post.. im glad to say that I can play that long still and know it wont effect me that much.. Im already pretty much back to normal (with a slight bit of fingertip numbness, but that will be gone by morning :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namvet Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 When you get my age, the fingers hurt no matter how long the session. Guess arthur and tendonitis have taken over. Middle finger on left hand gets stiff and kind of locked at a 90 degree bend and hurts like h***, but I still try to play some every day when possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogerb Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I know the feeling bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 On Saturday mornings, I play a 4-hour gig at a farmers market. Sometimes I'm alone, sometimes I have a picking partner. After 3hrs I'm worn-out. Fingers starting to feel tender, back aching from alternating from sitting to standing. After 4 hours I'm exhausted. I sincerely enjoy it, but it will almost bring me to my knees...lol...Even with a partner, my whole body is tired, because we're rarely ever just sitting there. We're always playing along with each other, no matter what the song is..........Typically at home, I focus (at times) on my technique. It's a more likely I'm reclined in my Lazy-Boy and watching TV, fooling with the grandkids. Plus, at home, my playing more likely consists of several 10-30 minute periods throughout the day. I think that most people who are not into playing music do not understand how physical it is. Simply playing an instrument for an extended period of time will takes it's toll. Add to it the singing and it's a marathon of sorts for the non-runner. I do not envy the musicians who are on tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Namvet... You're younger than I am, so I guess I feel pretty lucky. Uncle Arthur and my genetics have some impact, but not as much as I expected. I'll never forget watching my grandmother when she was about "our" age making some reeeally fine lace. Tears were streaming down her face. "Grandma," I asked, "Why are you crying." She answered, "Because my arthritis in my hands hurts." "So why are you doing it?" She responded, "So I can." Missouri... I know what you're talking about. In retrospect I think some of the most intense physical labor I've done in life has been in rock gigs from packing to driving, then unpacking and setting up, playing crazy, packing, driving and then unpacking again.. OTOH, I tend to think that my fingerpickin' on lighter strings 'stedda flatpicking on heavier strings is a bit of an advantage... along with a tendency toward a lot lighter equipment or using somebody else's if I'm doing something "electric." m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I try to avoid that these days. Got tendonitis in my elbow due to overplaying on the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buliwyf Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 A recent buddy of mine stopped by and had an acoustic guitar with him. I havent known him long so I didnt know he was a new player and he didnt know I have been playing for a while.It was a pretty decent Ovation 12 string and of course I had to play it and he had just bought it because he has a bit of down time and always wanted to learn how to play.Well I havent been playing my electric much lately so my fingers were a bit soft and would probably had a bit of trouble with an electric.Dam I forgot what 12 string acoustic strings could do to fingers that just play electric.He wanted me to show him a bunch of stuff plus I wanted to play it anyways and after about 20 min it was getting hard to stay macho and pretend it wasnt hurting at all.I finally had to stop and didnt say anything but I was one finger hurting guy.Playing an acoustic was tough enough but a 12 string really ripped up my finger tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 A recent buddy of mine stopped by and had an acoustic guitar with him. I havent known him long so I didnt know he was a new player and he didnt know I have been playing for a while.It was a pretty decent Ovation 12 string and of course I had to play it and he had just bought it because he has a bit of down time and always wanted to learn how to play.Well I havent been playing my electric much lately so my fingers were a bit soft and would probably had a bit of trouble with an electric.Dam I forgot what 12 string acoustic strings could do to fingers that just play electric.He wanted me to show him a bunch of stuff plus I wanted to play it anyways and after about 20 min it was getting hard to stay macho and pretend it wasnt hurting at all.I finally had to stop and didnt say anything but I was one finger hurting guy.Playing an acoustic was tough enough but a 12 string really ripped up my finger tips. Yes I can attest to that too.. 12 strings sound amazing but they are a ***** to play... Ive never played one that didnt hurt my finger :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 There's a video with John Petrucci talking about stretches and massages you can do to help prevent injury. I wasn't sure if it really works or not, but I've been trying nonetheless. he starts talking about it around 2:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjhmi-bkFPE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes Perfect. 4 hours isn't what I'd call "overdoing it". If you're in pain after 4 hours you either need to play more, or figure out what you're doing wrong. We just landed a two night gig for Christmas that's 5 one hour sets per night. I get fatigue in my back and feet after a gig like that, but my arms and fingers are usually ready for the after party. The only pain you should be experiencing is burning fingertips, which will stop after you build some real calluses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes Perfect. 4 hours isn't what I'd call "overdoing it". If you're in pain after 4 hours you either need to play more, or figure out what you're doing wrong. We just landed a two night gig for Christmas that's 5 one hour sets per night. I get fatigue in my back and feet after a gig like that, but my arms and fingers are usually ready for the after party. The only pain you should be experiencing is burning fingertips, which will stop after you build some real calluses. ts probably just mostly to do with the fact that im also not very fit lol.. it was more like that sort of sore pain you get after a work out when you know youve worked hard.. and yes the main pain was the fingertips.. but as you say that goes away :) its also just been a while since I played for that long.. usually maybe play for an hour or two.. so it was an unusual event... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I could still do a four-hour gig with three of my electrics - but at my age and lack of physical exercise, I'd best be sitting 'stedda jumping up and down. But then, nobody seems to suggest BB should stand for a whole concert. <grin> m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 ts probably just mostly to do with the fact that im also not very fit lol.. it was more like that sort of sore pain you get after a work out when you know youve worked hard.. and yes the main pain was the fingertips.. but as you say that goes away :) its also just been a while since I played for that long.. usually maybe play for an hour or two.. so it was an unusual event... Yeah, you have to ease yourself back into things. Just like working out or running it takes muscle training. I could still do a four-hour gig with three of my electrics - but at my age and lack of physical exercise, I'd best be sitting 'stedda jumping up and down. But then, nobody seems to suggest BB should stand for a whole concert. <grin> m I've considered sitting. My lower back has always been my week spot, and the wrong shoes will destroy my back and feet. I should have been a drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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