merseybeat1963 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 This is more like what handmaking a guitar looks like..(this guy is in England). Theres a lot of love going into that thing and its not about speed either. If Gibson would incorporate this attention to the Soundboard, body & a no space fit of the neck joint to the body..keeping all the other automation..that would be something. The name Gibson, deserves it. And all those machines are giving so much of an advantage to short cutting things not as important. My brother who is a lefty & had at one point 85 guitars... a majority of them new 59' Historic Reissue Les Pauls, would add to this ..Planing & fretting the fingerboard after the neck is attached to the body as this guy is doing. He always said this is why Gibsons have that raise where neck meets the body. What gets me is the most elite name in new guitars is Benedetto..the guitars are like $26K. I mean your thinking for that, its Mr.Benedetto carving away guitars in a small shoppe with maybe an assistant. But I look at a video & its 10 guys in there like a mini Gibson factory..and no sign of Benedetto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 This is more like what handmaking a guitar looks like..(this guy is in England). Theres a lot of love going into that thing and its not about speed either. If Gibson would incorporate this attention to the Soundboard, body & a no space fit of the neck joint to the body..keeping all the other automation..that would be something. The name Gibson, deserves it. And all those machines are giving so much of an advantage to short cutting things not as important. My brother who is a lefty & had at one point 85 guitars... a majority of them new 59' Historic Reissue Les Pauls, would add to this ..Planing & fretting the fingerboard after the neck is attached to the body as this guy is doing. He always said this is why Gibsons have that raise where neck meets the body. What gets me is the most elite name in new guitars is Benedetto..the guitars are like $26K. I mean your thinking for that, its Mr.Benedetto carving away guitars in a small shoppe with maybe an assistant. But I look at a video & its 10 guys in there like a mini Gibson factory..and no sign of Benedetto! I think Bob Benedetto is still an owner. The Benedetto archtops ain't cheap, but they have quite a reputation. I'm glad there are people like Roger Williams out there making a living hand-building guitars one at a time, and I'm glad there are people who can afford to patronize him and keep this trade alive. For most of us, however, the compromise we make in choosing a factory-built guitar like a Gibson is a financial reality. And a good Gibson is hard to beat. I have a factory-built (Spain) Tom Prisloe Pavan classical, because I can't justify spending what he gets for his hand-built custom guitars. For my level of playing, it's just fine. For a concert classical guitarist, I'm sure it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think Bob Benedetto is still an owner. The Benedetto archtops ain't cheap, but they have quite a reputation. I'm glad there are people like Roger Williams out there making a living hand-building guitars one at a time, and I'm glad there are people who can afford to patronize him and keep this trade alive. For most of us, however, the compromise we make in choosing a factory-built guitar like a Gibson is a financial reality. And a good Gibson is hard to beat. I have a factory-built (Spain) Tom Prisloe Pavan classical, because I can't justify spending what he gets for his hand-built custom guitars. For my level of playing, it's just fine. For a concert classical guitarist, I'm sure it isn't. I was wondering if $26K per guitar is not enough motivation for Mr.Benedetto to get to a bench & make guitars how much is..? : ) Also, as carefully & as slowly that this English guy crafts those guitars the price is £3K (under US $5k). He keeps his prices close to the belt. The big business pricing is very different. Middlemen galore. When I was arranging to do my Custom "once in a lifetime lets get everything right this time Martin"..(the one that this new H&D is just about blowing away).. I asked the Custom Shoppe how about if I bought a set of Brazilian Rosewood & sent it to them? I figured they'll save themselves a set of Indian Rosewood & use the set I bought..but no.. They said they would buy the set from me for $300-500...and then charge me retail ..which was either $6 or $8000 at the time...! (They were ok with me though ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 i can honestly say that if i won the lottery tomorrow i still wouldnt show an interest in these boutique guitars . i might helicopter over to the workshop and try a few because , never say never , but 100% geniunely i got a gibson because i really like the sound it makes. i have a lowden built guitar upstairs that is for sale , theres no arguing that its a beautiful sounding guitar , finger picked for slow celtic music its just a dream . but strummed by me it just chokes up with all the overtones . mersey , you say your H and D is blowing away the martin, could you explain how its blown away ? volume ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 If Gibson went down that path they would make about 20 guitars a year ... not particularly good for business. I agree with BBG. Love the tone, feel and looks of my Gibson as they are, hence why change a winning combination ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Have to agree with EA and BBG. $26k (or a lot less actually) is way outta my league anyway. I love music and strumming away on my Gibson but I'm no expert and in a blind test would probably fail to tell the difference between many guitars I'm a crappy guitarist at best and I definitely don't do my J45 justice when 'playing'. However, it gives me a lot of joy owning/playing/staring at it haha I don't what it is about Gibsons but I've been bitten by the bug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I can truly appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into these handmade guitars. If I had the finances to afford one I might even want one. Though buying the cheapest anything is a near guarantee of buying an inferior product, conversely, buying the most expensive anything isn't a guarantee of buying the best of that thing-especially handmade instruments made of wood. I agree with the previous posters about Gibson's sound. I bought mine because I like the way it sounds, plays and looks. As with others here, I've played many, many guitars before arriving at the choice I've made. I even tread through the treacherous waters of guitars beyond my price range and still made the choice I did because this was the guitar I preferred. Being a a woodworker, the beauty of woods used and how they are treated by the builder has great appeal for me. That said, I don't need to romanticize about how my guitar was made for me to love it as it is. Just because I prefer to build a piece of furniture with traditional joinery doesn't mean there aren't other methods that that are effective and turn out a similar looking product. Gibson has developed a method of building guitars that works-well. With all the variables that goes into building, I wonder if they adopted the methods proposed by the OP whether they guitars would still sound like Gibsons? After all, isn't that what we like? To recount a video I've referenced before, a documentary featuring James taylor and Carole King from a couple of years ago, JT pulls out his old J50 at one point. That factory built guitar sounded much nicer, warmer and soulful than his beautiful Olson. I think the Olson is north of $15,000.00 The point I'm trying to make, in my typical long winded manner, is, isn't the final result the only thing that matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 even if I bought a handmade guitar, I would want it to look and sound like a Gibson anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 even if I bought a handmade guitar, I would want it to look and sound like a Gibson anyway Amen, brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 even if I bought a handmade guitar, I would want it to look and sound like a Gibson anyway I'll second that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 even if I bought a handmade guitar, I would want it to look and sound like a Gibson anyway That would be a Greven, which is one maker I would definitely be intertested in if I was to go down that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 also Chris Bozung of CBguitars, builds a a great Gibson slope these not only sound great but, they are the loudest guitar Ive ever heard CB Guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 wouldn't be writing home about the sunburst on that one :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 i can honestly say that if i won the lottery tomorrow i still wouldnt show an interest in these boutique guitars . i might helicopter over to the workshop and try a few because , never say never , but 100% geniunely i got a gibson because i really like the sound it makes. i have a lowden built guitar upstairs that is for sale , theres no arguing that its a beautiful sounding guitar , finger picked for slow celtic music its just a dream . but strummed by me it just chokes up with all the overtones . mersey , you say your H and D is blowing away the martin, could you explain how its blown away ? volume ?? Oh man..theres that word Boutique again..does it come with a set of lipsticks..echh! : ) The H&D has more volume,more sensitive response..and the notes develope some complexity in the body. This was the impression I got when I tried old Martins..and a Gibson made pre mid 40's. Right now the action is too high for me to enjoy & has strings which feel like sandpaper & Ive been told to let it settle for a few weeks before adjusting it. The Martin is much easier to play right now & I love the Full V Neck..and it has a nice sound..but the H&D sounds more like what Martin & Gibson flat tops used to sound like. Though there is some question that the neck will ever feel like that V. The Lowden chokes up with all the overtones. When I first heard one I struck me that it sounded like a Medeveal instrument & I liked it. The guitar is string sensitive & trying a different set may be a good idea before selling it. It seems almost to be voiced to use with those Elixers that come on the guitar..maybe try a set of Nickle Strings on it which is what vintage acoustic guitars used to be strung with. With that sensitive guitar the Nickle strings would probably sound really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 If Gibson went down that path they would make about 20 guitars a year ... not particularly good for business. I agree with BBG. Love the tone, feel and looks of my Gibson as they are, hence why change a winning combination ? Hi Aussie..But they have been changing. Radius tops..bracing that is not Pre War at all...they continue changing the way they are made..the species of woods within the same name range.. And Im not saying go down the Purist path to the extent of the guy in video but only in areas where compromise should never had been implemented in the first place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 That would be a Greven, which is one maker I would definitely be intertested in if I was to go down that path. Funny you put this..I bought a Greven guitar in 1985..it was the third acoustic Id ever bought. It was recommened by my friend at Sam Ash in Queens NY Andy Mulroy, who was friends & suggested John Grevens guitars to John Denver. It was an F Model in such figured maple that the thing almost looked like glass. It belonged in a museum. And let me tell you that guy is one of the best inlay guys in the world. But the guitar was a flop for me. It was made for fingerpicking evidently and each note rang out where you could really hear it.. but when you strummed a chord with a flat pick, the top sounded like it was shattering. It must have been a paper thin top or something. Plus everytime you picked up the guitar it needed retuning , sometimes in the same sitting..Either that SUPER figured neck or other things just would not be stable. I sold it to my brother who had John converted it to a lefty & put another neck(mah) on it but still no good..he sold it off for just under $400. I really considered another go at one of his a couple of years ago but I saw a video of him using a belt sander to shape a neck quickly & I said to myself, that does not look right to me. Check these two writings..gives a good explanation between new & old Gibson/Martin Guitars as he was head of repair at Gruhn. http://www.grevenguitars.com/pdfs/VoicingtheGuitar.pdf http://www.grevenguitars.com/pdfs/MartinMyths.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 I can truly appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into these handmade guitars. If I had the finances to afford one I might even want one. Though buying the cheapest anything is a near guarantee of buying an inferior product, conversely, buying the most expensive anything isn't a guarantee of buying the best of that thing-especially handmade instruments made of wood. I agree with the previous posters about Gibson's sound. I bought mine because I like the way it sounds, plays and looks. As with others here, I've played many, many guitars before arriving at the choice I've made. I even tread through the treacherous waters of guitars beyond my price range and still made the choice I did because this was the guitar I preferred. Being a a woodworker, the beauty of woods used and how they are treated by the builder has great appeal for me. That said, I don't need to romanticize about how my guitar was made for me to love it as it is. Just because I prefer to build a piece of furniture with traditional joinery doesn't mean there aren't other methods that that are effective and turn out a similar looking product. Gibson has developed a method of building guitars that works-well. With all the variables that goes into building, I wonder if they adopted the methods proposed by the OP whether they guitars would still sound like Gibsons? After all, isn't that what we like? To recount a video I've referenced before, a documentary featuring James taylor and Carole King from a couple of years ago, JT pulls out his old J50 at one point. That factory built guitar sounded much nicer, warmer and soulful than his beautiful Olson. I think the Olson is north of $15,000.00 The point I'm trying to make, in my typical long winded manner, is, isn't the final result the only thing that matters? Hi 57 They would still sound like Gibsons (& Martins) cause most of these people are attempting to make the type of guitar Gibson & Martin no longer make anyway. If Martin made em as good as those PreWar guitars were, why would anyone buy an off brand instead. Prices would be high on a more traditionally handmade made one, but these reissue/limiteds they put out are expensive anyway..& eventually used ones with a little dent here & there always trickle down later in the years to musicians at less cost.. More inspirational guitars better music( in theory) In those days though they had better old growth & slowly dried wood.. I love furniture nearly as much as instruments. I believe in handmade furniture & appreciate it immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 also Chris Bozung of CBguitars, builds a a great Gibson slope these not only sound great but, they are the loudest guitar Ive ever heard CB Guitars Vince Gill..yes? Thats a great guitar player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 vince gill and keith richards , cut from two totally different cloths !! not everyone wants a pre war martin sound you know? one mans holy grail is another mans bluegrass guitar !! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 vince gill and keith richards , cut from two totally different cloths !! not everyone wants a pre war martin sound you know? one mans holy grail is another mans bluegrass guitar !! :D WHAT? BlindboyG...You cant be serious ...every acoustic guitar ever made has wished to be a PreWar Martin or Gibson.. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 WHAT? BlindboyG...You cant be serious ...every acoustic guitar ever made has wished to be a PreWar Martin or Gibson.. : ) Maybe for Martins, but Gibson has had multiple "golden ages", and they just keep coming....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 one mans holy grail is another mans bluegrass guitar !! :D Lol...and you can't keep a good man down, and you can't keep me down either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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