Searcy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/us-science-music-idUSBRE86P0R820120726 (Reuters) - Comforting news for anyone over the age of 35, scientists have worked out that modern pop music really is louder and does all sound the same. Researchers in Spain used a huge archive known as the Million Song Dataset, which breaks down audio and lyrical content into data that can be crunched, to study pop songs from 1955 to 2010. A team led by artificial intelligence specialist Joan Serra at the Spanish National Research Council ran music from the last 50 years through some complex algorithms and found that pop songs have become intrinsically louder and more bland in terms of the chords, melodies and types of sound used. "We found evidence of a progressive homogenization of the musical discourse," Serra told Reuters. "In particular, we obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations - roughly speaking chords plus melodies - has consistently diminished in the last 50 years." They also found the so-called timbre palette has become poorer. The same note played at the same volume on, say, a piano and a guitar is said to have a different timbre, so the researchers found modern pop has a more limited variety of sounds. Intrinsic loudness is the volume baked into a song when it is recorded, which can make it sound louder than others even at the same volume setting on an amplifier. The music industry has long been accused of ramping up the volume at which songs are recorded in a 'loudness war' but Serra says this is the first time it has been properly measured using a large database. The study, which appears in the journal Scientific Reports, offers a handy recipe for musicians in a creative drought. Old tunes re-recorded with increased loudness, simpler chord progressions and different instruments could sound new and fashionable. The Rolling Stones in their 50th anniversary year should take note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Very interesting. Good find, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyBillyBob1 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I can see how James Brown and Yes sound exactly the same. Genesis, Dream Theater, and other Prog Rock Bands are just as simplistic as Elvis ( I love Elvis). Mumford & Sons, Avett Bros, are just as loud as Deep Purple, Hendrix. The "establishment" has been saying the same thing forever about new music. Some things never change. This younger generation??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Nice to have scientific proof to what I have been whining about for the past ten years: the volume wars. My other complaint is the sterile cleanliness of modern music. It makes me want to go back and listen to Guided By Voices or stuff like Ty Segall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAXONGchVtc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I knew it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Nice to have scientific proof to what I have been whining about for the past ten years: the volume wars. My other complaint is the sterile cleanliness of modern music. It makes me want to go back and listen to Guided By Voices or stuff like Ty Segall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAXONGchVtc Did I ever mention that I prefer the sound of tape decks over ProTools? But then again, I've heard some great sounding records that were recorded with ProTools.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I can't believe it took a scientific study to prove that. Dance music has all sounded the same for the last 15 years, it may be the first time in music history that a market has been so homogenized. A formula so predictable it's disturbing. It's also a little disturbing that so many musicians can't hear that for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Did I ever mention that I prefer the sound of tape decks over ProTools? But then again, I've heard some great sounding records that were recorded with ProTools.... ProTools is not all evil; just the way some people use it is evil (I hope people don't think I am anti everything). I've been in recording sessions with the engineer nudging and bumping every note to make it drum machine precise. It zaps the soul out the music. Couple that with modern mastering techniques and you that's what you hear on commercial radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 ProTools is not all evil; just the way some people use it is evil (I hope people don't think I am anti everything). I've been in recording sessions with the engineer nudging and bumping every note to make it drum machine precise. It zaps the soul out the music. Couple that with modern mastering techniques and you that's what you hear on commercial radio. Exactly! If the operator relies on the program instead of recording techniques it will sound like crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/us-science-music-idUSBRE86P0R820120726 (Reuters) - Comforting news for anyone over the age of 35, scientists have worked out that modern pop music really is louder and does all sound the same. Researchers in Spain used a huge archive known as the Million Song Dataset, which breaks down audio and lyrical content into data that can be crunched, to study pop songs from 1955 to 2010. A team led by artificial intelligence specialist Joan Serra at the Spanish National Research Council ran music from the last 50 years through some complex algorithms and found that pop songs have become intrinsically louder and more bland in terms of the chords, melodies and types of sound used. "We found evidence of a progressive homogenization of the musical discourse," Serra told Reuters. "In particular, we obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations - roughly speaking chords plus melodies - has consistently diminished in the last 50 years." They also found the so-called timbre palette has become poorer. The same note played at the same volume on, say, a piano and a guitar is said to have a different timbre, so the researchers found modern pop has a more limited variety of sounds. Intrinsic loudness is the volume baked into a song when it is recorded, which can make it sound louder than others even at the same volume setting on an amplifier. The music industry has long been accused of ramping up the volume at which songs are recorded in a 'loudness war' but Serra says this is the first time it has been properly measured using a large database. The study, which appears in the journal Scientific Reports, offers a handy recipe for musicians in a creative drought. Old tunes re-recorded with increased loudness, simpler chord progressions and different instruments could sound new and fashionable. The Rolling Stones in their 50th anniversary year should take note. It's difficult to say really, as time and tech move's forward the gear that sound is archived on gets better and better. The equipment used to record sound back in the early day's of magnetic tape machine's only have a fraction of the head room that more modern machine's from the late 1960's had. Now that we have digital recording the sky is the limit, the software, storage and the interface's that make this all work is the only thing holding back more and more quality. The "Volume War's" is really no different then when they placed amplifier's and speaker's in the concert hall's and added sound to movie's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 On the subject of 'all sounds the same'. I went to a gig on Friday night and the sound was awful. Why is it that nearly all the gigs I go to recently have bad sound? Frampton was OK, but Journey was dire. The gig on Friday was Tony Martin (ex Sabbath) a medium size hall and the drums sounded like cardboard boxes and it was all muffled. It ruins it for me. I hate bad sound. A mate went to see Steve Lukather last year and he said the sound was awful there too. It seem all they're concerned about is volume and bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Isaac Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Some years ago Scandanavian researches found that leaning on a surface that was a certain height set the back at an angle that was relaxing and beneficial after a hard day. Would you believe that 'certain' height was the height of a bar. Heck, we have known that for years, that is why we go to a bar and relax. Why do they spend ages and lots of money doing reasearch on stuff we know. There are a lot of singers today with really good voices, but they sing crap songs, often ones that do not suit their voices. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyBillyBob1 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 If only they would do a scientific computer study to determine which is the best candy bar. Recent new offerings are all too sweet and all taste the same. What is the matter with current confectioners?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Isaac Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 If only they would do a scientific computer study to determine which is the best candy bar. Recent new offerings are all too sweet and all taste the same. What is the matter with current confectioners?? When my son moved from the UK to California to live he said he missed British chocolate/candy. He said the American stuff was dreadful. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Yeah. It's the musicians. /chuckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 On the subject of 'all sounds the same'. I went to a gig on Friday night and the sound was awful. Why is it that nearly all the gigs I go to recently have bad sound? Frampton was OK, but Journey was dire. The gig on Friday was Tony Martin (ex Sabbath) a medium size hall and the drums sounded like cardboard boxes and it was all muffled. It ruins it for me. I hate bad sound. A mate went to see Steve Lukather last year and he said the sound was awful there too. It seem all they're concerned about is volume and bass. Being from Butte, MT, last night I was at Evel Kinevel Days (A three-day, as in Thursday thru Saturday, festival dedicated to Evel Kinevel. Loads of fun!), and they had some reggae band. The sound was so compressed I couldn't even listen to it. The next band, Triple Threat (I know 2/3rds of that band as a matter of fact), sounded great. Great musicianship, great sound, but I just didn't care for the songs. Needless to say, they actually made "Talk Dirty To Me" sound interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxom Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Saw this like a week ago. Was in a different report via Reddit. (See the little alien in the 'Share this topic' at the bottom?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Here's one for you. I went a VH concert in the late 80's or early 90's (can't exactly remember when). BTO opened for them and they sounded great! Then when VH came on they were so loud I couldn't hear a note. For some reason they just turned it up way WAY too much. Michael Anthony sounded like mud and EVH sounded like one blur. Never went to another VH concert again (still love them though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 As far as sound at a concert and it being bad, this may depend on the venue and where your seat is. I went to see Rush in the early 1990's, our seats where up in the nose-bleed section. It was in a concrete dome that was build for indoor sporing event's. At our seat's, the sound was really bad! Couldn't make out a single word that Geddy was singing and the music was blurred, muddy and echoing every where. We walked down to the floor almost all the way to the front and it sounded great at every point in that part of the arena! To bad we got kicked out of the floor area by cops and security every time we went down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 As far as sound at a concert and it being bad, this may depend on the venue and where your seat is. I went to see Rush in the early 1990's, our seats where up in the nose-bleed section. It was in a concrete dome that was build for indoor sporing event's. At our seat's, the sound was really bad! Couldn't make out a single word that Geddy was singing and the music was blurred, muddy and echoing every where. We walked down to the floor almost all the way to the front and it sounded great at every point in that part of the arena! To bad we got kicked out of the floor area by cops and security every time we went down there. We have a local bar called "The Depot" (it used to be a train depot...). It has a pretty good size stage. The acoustics in that room are great! And they have a large stage outside where small festivals are held and bigger bands play (38 Special is playing there soon). BUT, there's a ballroom there also with a big stage (where professional bands play). Terrible sound. Every band I've heard in there sounded bad because of the damn room! Some people don't understand that every room has a tone of its own. It's not all electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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