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Single Coil Guitars & Empty Can of Beer


Valeriy

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I have long been bothered by a question regarding the correct shielding of my Strat pickups.

Once I already made that by means of the aluminum foil for a chocolate.

It was not difficult to wrap up the foil around the pickups, to ground and to close the cover.

But such complete wrapping gives an effect known in electrical engineering as a short-closed loop (seems like it will be in English),

that greatly affects the tone of any pickup. Although thanks to my active circuit with 9 v battery my inexpensive Strat sounded in principle not bad.

However magnetic cores of my pickups not were grounded yet, too soft foil for chocolate does not provide a reliable electrical contact with them. And it bothered me, of course.

Because as a rule, as regards single pickups their cores must be always grounded in accordance with the recommendations about shielding from various guitar masters.

(As regards guitar or pickup manufactories, this operation is usually not done due to the fact that it is not technological, i.e. it is inconvenient for mass production, to ground each magnetic core into pickup).

 

So, finally I found the time and desire to bring this matter to its logical end. But I was confused by a caveat. All the said recommendations are implied rather complicated technologies of shielding pickups without the short-closed loop and grounding each core. To do everything according to those complicated technologies - this was not liked for me, and the desire to bring this matter to its logical end – this was liked [crying][lol] .

 

And then I glanced casually, guys, do not believe it, two empty cans of beer littered the house, me an idea [woot] . Why didn’t I guess earlier? ](*,) When they are touched they are crunchy, their foil is soft made of aluminum too. And this foil is slightly thicker chocolate foil, i.e. it is elastic enough to hold a shape (to tear will not be) and in its turn it is thin enough, so, convenient for processing.

I.e. this foil of the can of beer, I have understood, is optimal [thumbup] for making the shield for single pickups. And when I began to try it my assumption is fully confirmed. Scissors cuts it easy like a paper, awl pierces all the holes. And the size of the holes for the magnetic cores (the 6 holes) is fitted easily by means of a small file. And the empty can of beer, its cylindrical sidewall, is sufficient for exactly 2 pickups to make the appropriate wrap cover for the single. So, cut the sidewall from the can and cut in half.

 

Finally, by means of awl, scissors and a small file the next shield cover can be made quickly enough. As you can see, a gap against the short-closed loop was done near the butt of the pickup.

 

SAM_0118a.jpg

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I'm interested in seeing your results but as a rule aluminum is bad about causing eddy currents and cutting the high end from your pickup signal. This is why we don't make pickup covers out of aluminum.

 

Please post your findings when your done. [thumbup]

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I am interested in the actual results as well. How well does it cut noise, and how does it affect the sound.

 

One way I used to attempt to shield Strat pups I got from taking apart a JACKSON Strat pup: it had tape around the coil (a'la Gibson) with another layer of copper foil around that. The copper shield was then connected to the pup (-) wire at the pup.

 

I altered this by using some non-sticky materiel to wrap the coil (so I wouldn't damage it) then wrapping it tape, and wrapping copper foil. I would then keep the "shield" wire separate from the others and ground them closer to the jack or volume knob. (I would experiement with separating the other shielding from the pots...that's a whole different subject that gets too deep atm).

 

The RESULTS of a lot of this pup shielding is that it is highly effective in removing hum in SOME situations, as in WHERE it is played and how much "other" equipment is effected, but also seems to cut down on a lot of what to me is the "natural" spank and brightness of a Strat. At that point it really gets into splitting hairs as to which guitar or pups would benifit...on the one hand, a dry, bright sounding guitar might sound a little better and have the potential to be less noisy, while a guitar that sounds sweet and full would not sound as good. It DOES make it quiter and alter the sound: some can hear it, some can't. Some care, and some don't. It's NOT a magic bullet.

 

Sorry for the long post, but there is a reason I try and explain: the most EFFECTIVE shield is to have a sheail close to the source in an effert to "capture" stray feilds that find thier way into an electrical circuit. But any time you introduce a materiel close to the signal, it effectively acts as a dialectric, meaning it is now PART of the signal carrying wires or components. An effective materiel that would conduct electricity is the worst dialetric you can have, as it reflects MORE signal back to the signal carrying wires. It adds a buttload of series capacitance as well.

 

So back to YOUR idea, using a poor conductor (beer can) might have trade-offs that might alter the signal less, but be enough to capture a portion of the stray fields. Also, ONE of the issues with shielding pups is that you CAN'T shield all of it in all directions, and I find it does no good to ground the magnets.

 

Of corse, the more important issue to me is how would one shield a REAL noisy beast like a P-90? Wrapping the coil doesn't even cover hardly any of it, so what is effective for a Fender pup doesn't apply to a flat, wide P-90. And also what is the point in having a Strat be quiter when it is already much quiter to begin with compared to a guitar with P-90's?

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Thanks, Searcy and Stein, for your interest in this matter.

 

I did not do accurate measurements concerning noise for my Strat. However in the said recommendations, there are, it seems, not bad results about noise reduction with shielding Strat pickups. For example, http://www.novmuz.net/pages_print_370.html . Here is the data that the noise is reduced by 12 - 15 dB for Strat pickups thanks to the full shielding. There are photos and it shows how to make this shield. There are two foils, copper and aluminum..., of course, this is not the most convenient way in shielding etc. There copper foil is necessary to solder the ground wire.

 

I decided to make the shield a holistic (not compound). Here's a photo of the reverse side of my pickups. I attached a small brass plate to the aluminum foil by means of bolt and nut, and the ground wire is soldered to this plate. On the reverse side of my pickups the foil is done in an overlap, but this overlap is isolated electrically (here is pasted a piece of tape). And the overlap is bound by means of any non-conducting thread.

So, the short-closed loops are not along and across the pickup.

One nuance that the brass plate should be attached to that half of the overlap where will be the pickup wires.

SAM_0127a.jpg

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And here is a record of my Strat, I did it today, here is a sound from two pickups: Neck & Bridge. Moreover, in the Neck pickup I have left the short-closed loop (when I closed the plastic cover, I added a small thin copper plate to close the gap in the butt of the Neck pickup). I.e., for my Strat it is good when the Neck pickup is with the short-closed loop in the shield, sound is good especially in the mixes NeckBridge and Neck-Middle-Bridge. When the Neck was without the short-closed loop (as the Middle and the Bridge) these mixes sounded worse.

This is a fragment of guitar playing something like an exercise, from Fleetwood Mac [cool]

 

 

If this link does not work, then the track FleetWood M here:

 

http://soundcloud.com/you/tracks?page=1

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Never underestimate the Russians.

 

This reminds me of the story about how the Americans found the calculations for radar frequncies and creating "stealth" based upon a Russian scientist's calculations. Oddly, this was found in a BOOK in a Russian library.

 

Apparently, this guy (I forget his name) had come up with this in the 70's, and gave it to the Russian aircraft industry, but they were unable at THAT time to be able to make it work-long before the Americans started trying.

 

When the Berlin Wall came down and he could travel, the Americans found him and gave him a job teaching in a University in the US. He was not told, and didn't realize, that it was HIS calculations that was what the Americans used to create "stealth" until he was made famous in a newspaper artical after the success of the Stealth fighters.

 

Shortly after, when traveling in Europe somewhere, at a seminar he was asked how to defeat "stealth", and he explained excactly how to do it. THIS is how the F-117 was shot down in the Bosnian conflict.

 

NOW...if I could only read Russian, I might be able to understand how to build a "stealth" Strat.

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Once again, thank you, Stein.

 

Although I am a little ashamed of my country. On the one hand it's good that there is always beer cans and do not need to buy anything for shielding the Strat. :rolleyes: But on the other hand, in our country, there are too many of these empty cans, here, there, everywhere… and other debris on the street [unsure] . I was always surprised, especially when the snow melts and it becomes noticeable, all the garbage.

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Once again, thank you, Stein.

 

Although I am a little ashamed of my country. On the one hand it's good that there is always beer cans and do not need to buy anything for shielding the Strat. :rolleyes: But on the other hand, in our country, there are too many of these empty cans, here, there, everywhere… and other debris on the street [unsure] . I was always surprised, especially when the snow melts and it becomes noticeable, all the garbage.

Russia filled with Russian beer cans or America filled with American beer cans.

 

I don't see a difference there.

 

We will all answer to the same in the end.

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I am still not sure of this shielding or understand it, but what I DO understand seems like it would work.

 

It will take me quite a bit to wrap my head around.

 

I haven't listened to your samples yet, but I might add that there are some things about sheilding or partial sheilding that can make it worse in some cases.

 

And one thing I don't understand: I have always thought that grounding or having a sheild touch the magnets would make it worse. I don't get that part of it.

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Stein, as a matter of fact, I was under the impression that data as regards noise reduction (improvement by 12 15 dB) from the said link where all the 6 magnetic cores are also grounded to the shield (there is a wire from the cores crowded to them, it is soldered to the said copper foil that is as a part of the shield). May be, these noise reduction data are exaggerated.

But I know also other authors of similar works about shielding. For example, http://guitar.ru/articles/pickup/pickup-strat.html , here the cores are also grounded to the shield by only other manner. They are connected to each other by S-shaped elastic brackets, as it is on the pic there, and the brackets are grounded.

 

And here is no contradiction of the theory, in my opinion, because useful EMF is induced in the pickup coil, and the coil is not connected with the cores. There is only a dependence of this EMF on Number of rounds in the coil and on Magnetic Flow that, in its turn, depends only on Distances between the strings (their vibration) and the core. That is, grounding the cores does not affect the useful signal in the coil.

 

The only I have got that the short-closed loop in the shield can give interesting sound for the Neck pickup despite the warnings in those links where the short-closed loop could only be to the detriment of the sound , as they say. Really, this is true for the Middle, and especially to the Bridge .

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A long long time ago I used a sort of conductive aluminum paint on the body cavity of several cheap solidbodies. It did seem to help. I didn't really think in terms of grounding at that point. We're talking perhaps 40 years ago.

 

As for Russia...

 

I ran into a grad of the Tchaikovski Institute... an incredible musician and a beautiful lady now married to an American and performing mostly in Europe.

 

And, politics aside, I have always believed even in the old Soviet days, that Russians and North Americans have had a very different history, but have far more in common than most of us might imagine. But that is because I also believe that geography, including climate, affect the minds of humans in ways we too often ignore. Creativity and a desire for creativity is one of those ways. We simply have different political and social - and geographical - environments. Still, distances and weather are interesting determinants.

 

m

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I would like that my wife was a musician.

This Russian woman married for the American.

Apparently here Americans are ahead of us Russians too <_<

Really, quite often our beautiful girls try to leave Russia, it's so.

But it must be admitted that the said Tchaikovsky, it is still the 19th century, unfortunately.

I remember to my wife (she no musician) very much wasn't pleasant Kate Bush and I had to refuse hearing of this music so as not to annoy her, though Kate Bush very much is pleasant to me :) :P

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I would then keep the "shield" wire separate from the others and ground them closer to the jack or volume knob. (I would experiement with separating the other shielding from the pots...that's a whole different subject that gets too deep atm).

 

Of corse, the more important issue to me is how would one shield a REAL noisy beast like a P-90? Wrapping the coil doesn't even cover hardly any of it, so what is effective for a Fender pup doesn't apply to a flat, wide P-90. And also what is the point in having a Strat be quiter when it is already much quiter to begin with compared to a guitar with P-90's?

 

Yes, I know that the ideal situation is when the shield wire is grounded closer to the jack and even closer to the input of the amplifier by means of stereo jack and added another wire in the guitar cable. Although in the latter case (stereo jack and the cable etc), there is more commercial motives (who makes such guitars) than practical benefit in noise immunity, I think. And in the case of P-90 this way of the separate ground will not help anyway. I have an idea how to protect the P-90 against the noise and save its sound and tone by means of a balanced manner and auxiliary coil. When I have this pickup P-90, I obviously will try to do it. Of course, it would like to be close like a humbucker as regards noise immunity.

 

By the way, in that link where the sound of my Strat, its strings are already for about a year, i.e. they are killed in fact. My experiments, I often do them for the worst conditions.

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Hey Valeriy...

 

When did Russia start using standard jacks for electric guitars? Always? Or in the 1950s?

 

Just curious how much our political differences made things more difficult for Russian guitar players today.

 

Of course, the U.S. refuses to be completely metric - so things like our guitar cord jacks still are 1.4 inch...

 

m

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I would like that my wife was a musician.

This Russian woman married for the American.

Apparently here Americans are ahead of us Russians too <_<

Really, quite often our beautiful girls try to leave Russia, it's so.

But it must be admitted that the said Tchaikovsky, it is still the 19th century, unfortunately.

I remember to my wife (she no musician) very much wasn't pleasant Kat Bush and I had to refuse hearing of this music so as not to annoy her, though Kat Bush very much is pleasant to me :) :P

We try not to be prejudiced in America.

 

We especially don't discriminate against beautiful women.

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Hi Milod,

 

I can tell you even exactly that standard jacks were still in short supply even in 1990 and even among prof equipment on TV, for example.

I.e. turns out :) that the jacks to have spread it was necessary to collapse the Soviet Union.

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The RESULTS of a lot of this pup shielding is that it is highly effective in removing hum in SOME situations, as in WHERE it is played and how much "other" equipment is effected, but also seems to cut down on a lot of what to me is the "natural" spank and brightness of a Strat. At that point it really gets into splitting hairs as to which guitar or pups would benifit...on the one hand, a dry, bright sounding guitar might sound a little better and have the potential to be less noisy, while a guitar that sounds sweet and full would not sound as good. It DOES make it quiter and alter the sound: some can hear it, some can't. Some care, and some don't. It's NOT a magic bullet.

 

And a little more about the impact of the shield to the sound. I have the data, rather it is not my data. In the said the 2 links, there is only the warning against the short-closed loop and the method of shielding to avoid it, but without an explanation. In this link (in the end before Вместо Эпилога), http://igdrassil.narod.ru/audio/guitar/strat-quiet/,

here is just as well say that, literally, the sound of the Strat becomes quieter and not bright because of the short-closed loop if the coil of pickup is just wrapped in the foil.

So to avoid this the gap needs to be done or the wrapping foil should be with isolation.

 

And why is convenient the foil of beer cans – because the gap on the butt of pickup can be easy fitted up to 1 mm. It is immediately clear how much we have to cut this gap when we close the plastic cover, but not yet fully close.

 

And the procedure for making the shield is next [thumbup] :

1. cut the sidewall from the empty can of beer and cut in half it, as I said earlier.

2. make and fit the holes for the magnetic cores (by means of awl and a small file)

3. do incisions as shown in the 1-st photo

4. insert the resulting plate on the cores of pickup in accordance with the holes

5. before closing the plastic cover crease the foil in the form of the pickup

6. close and press the plastic cover

 

After that, so, the necessary form of the shield turns out as on the 1-st photo :) .

 

Now you only have to adjust the gap of the shield in the butt of the pickup (to avoid locking the gap of the shield, i.e. its connection when closing the plastic cover).

And then on the reverse side you can cut off the excess foil (the 2-nd photo).

Also, before you attached the additional plate with the bolt and the nut you must be slightly scrape the foil because it is covered with a thin non-conductive film.

Similarly, if someone will close the gap by means of an additional conductive plate inserted to the gap, as I did this in my Neck, this is also necessary to scrape the edges of the gap for a reliable electrical contact. And it will be reliably and tightly under the plastic cover.

 

I can also add that in my case, the sound was not quieter when the gap is locked, i.e. with the short-closed loop. Brightness of the sound was also not disappear, may be, because my Strat has a good active electronics. But [thumbdn] for the two pickups (Bridge and Middle) the sound was a bit sharp and even unpleasant. Therefore, here I have done the gap open and the sharpness disappeared, and the sound became more pleasant.

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Interesting post Ive tried shielding single coils in the past and always found the results to be negative rather than positive on the sound of the guitar. Copper tape in the cavities is about all I will try to do anymore and i only do that for guitars that will be in electronically noisy area's like bar's and other locations where the wiring of the building isn't grounded properly. Ive always found anything other than was added to the pickup itself is usually gonna do more harm than good. I can't think of any benefit from grounding each magnet unless you were having major ground loop issue's that were causing really excessive hum. I imagine the only sure thing I would expect out of wrapping a beer can around a pickup is rattle and vibration from the thin metal not moving with the pickup. But ingenious and well done solution even if it doesn't work you deserve credit for the effort

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Guys, I'm glad you appreciated my way of shielding. Thanks, Retrosurfer1959 .

I'm going to the Crimea now, it's like your Miami in America :) . There are now my mother, waiting me and school friends.

And I'll be back here at Gibson probably after the 15th. And perhaps I'll do a similar top in the section The Recording Room

and where tops are stored for longer on the page. There is also a talk about aluminum or copper.

This method of shielding really works. The sound is quite much different, with the gap and without it.

I noticed this even in spite of the powerful active electronics in my guitar.

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