Gibson settlement?

[Casino4Life]

Hearing as Gibson has settled it suit about the rosewood and is allowed to outsource again, does that mean they will go back to solid piece instead of two piece fretboard?

[sgplayers]

I hope that the baked maple neck is a thing of the past.I have not been able to look at gibson the same since they started using them. I know gibson is a quality guitar and the baked maple is hard and will last but iwould not buy one. I own 2 SGs and a Les Paul i was one of the lucky ones that got a split coil SG with red wood neck in 2011 altho i thought it was going to have an ebony fretboard it didnt. this was a dissapointment.

[Casino4Life]

I believe it is , they have since been using the two pieces of rosewood

[4Hayden]

What about them saying the new precess is harder and just as good.I have both kind but i see them going back to one piece fret boards

[CoreyT]

When did the one piece rosewood fretboards end on the SGs before they went to the two piece?

My 2012 '61 SG Reissue my sales guy at Guitar Center where I got it says I got one of the last ones with all rosewood, so I am thinking he meant one piece?

The guitar was made in February or March of this year.

 

He was gone when I went to pick it up several months back after it came in from Kansas, but I took it in later to show it to him as I was having a problem with it going out of tune.

[Guest farnsbarns]

When did the one piece rosewood fretboards end on the SGs before they went to the two piece?

My 2012 '61 SG Reissue my sales guy at Guitar Center where I got it says I got one of the last ones with all rosewood, so I am thinking he meant one piece?

The guitar was made in February or March of this year.

 

He was gone when I went to pick it up several months back after it came in from Kansas, but I took it in later to show it to him as I was having a problem with it going out of tune.

 

I think feb/march 12 likely means it's layered. You can tell by removing the nut.

 

My guess is they will go back to one piece eventually but who knows.

 

If I were Gibson I'd be making some special edition guitars with the rosewood they got back. Gibson, I know you reserve the right to use any idea posted on the forum but if you like this idea and use it, consider sending me one of the guitars!?!?

[CoreyT]

Thanks, it is going into the shop tomorrow where I bought my PRS SE Santana from to get a complete tuneup, EB Cobalts, and Planet Waves Autotrim tuners.

I will ask the tech to look at the board and see if it is one or two piece.

Would it be worth having him swap to a better nut if he has to take the white one off to view the fret board?

[Guest farnsbarns]

Thanks, it is going into the shop tomorrow where I bought my PRS SE Santana from to get a complete tuneup, EB Cobalts, and Planet Waves Autotrim tuners.

I will ask the tech to look at the board and see if it is one or two piece.

Would it be worth having him swap to a better nut if he has to take the white one off to view the fret board?

 

Maybe, I hear a lot said about nut material but actually have no experience of anything but nylon and corian which made no difference that I could identify.

[retrosurfer1959]

This isn't a big settlement done to punish Gibson this is a minor monetary fine so the government can feel better about itself and reduce retaliation lawsuits. While letting Gibson get on with business! It doesn't mean Gibson is guilty or anything else! In the corporate world a fine like this equates to a small slap on the wrist and the chance to get back to work without spending millions in attorney fee's. I'm sure Henry still feels he was right and they were wrong. But morality won't cash checks this is a minuscule fine to make this all go away and let Gibson keep importing and building guitars. for anyone that thinks Gibson lost this case dream on, they walked away with a pennies on the dollar fine and a smart business move. This was a total win by Gibson and pretty much proves the governments case was weak at best. This probably cost us as taxpayers well in excess of ten million dollars in enforcement action and that doesn't even begin to examine the millions spent since then by the government on attorney and agents and press releases and on and on, They were fined 250k and donated another 50k while there still allowed to continue importing wood, trust me Gibson and Henry are both tap dancing over this legal decision. This is peanuts compared to what it would have cost to fight this even if they won so kudos' to Henry for not letting his pride get in the way of company profits.

 

And for those waiting to hear Gibson argue about this they won't there too busy celebrating and not talking about it in depth was probably part of the settlement gibson won this one plain and simple the only losers here was the United states taxpayers as usual. And for those that think Henry will get in trouble over this? hell no if there was a board of directors they would all be drinking champagne and talking about giving Henry a bonus after this. In the corporate world when you can make a huge legal action go away for chump change like this case did, you don't get fired you get a bonus Henry's a hero to any financial backers he has like I said he probably couldn't make a statement yet he's still too busy laughing and high fiving the rest of the leadership.

[Guest farnsbarns]

This isn't a big settlement done to punish Gibson this is a minor monetary fine so the government can feel better about itself and reduce retaliation lawsuits. While letting Gibson get on with business! It doesn't mean Gibson is guilty or anything else! In the corporate world a fine like this equates to a small slap on the wrist and the chance to get back to work without spending millions in attorney fee's. I'm sure Henry still feels he was right and they were wrong. But morality won't cash checks this is a minuscule fine to make this all go away and let Gibson keep importing and building guitars. for anyone that thinks Gibson lost this case dream on, they walked away with a pennies on the dollar fine and a smart business move. This was a total win by Gibson and pretty much proves the governments case was weak at best. This probably cost us as taxpayers well in excess of ten million dollars in enforcement action and that doesn't even begin to examine the millions spent since then by the government on attorney and agents and press releases and on and on, They were fined 250k and donated another 50k while there still allowed to continue importing wood, trust me Gibson and Henry are both tap dancing over this legal decision. This is peanuts compared to what it would have cost to fight this even if they won so kudos' to Henry for not letting his pride get in the way of company profits.

 

And for those waiting to hear Gibson argue about this they won't there too busy celebrating and not talking about it in depth was probably part of the settlement gibson won this one plain and simple the only losers here was the United states taxpayers as usual. And for those that think Henry will get in trouble over this? hell no if there was a board of directors they would all be drinking champagne and talking about giving Henry a bonus after this. In the corporate world when you can make a huge legal action go away for chump change like this case did, you don't get fired you get a bonus Henry's a hero to any financial backers he has like I said he probably couldn't make a statement yet he's still too busy laughing and high fiving the rest of the leadership.

 

One thing though, they have made a statement and they have admitted that they were completely wrong in the Madagascar case and that they were implicit n the mislabling of indian rosewood. The US government have, at the same time, admitted that the rules pertaining to the India case are open to interpretation and have agreed that fingerboard blanks can be imported until the Indian government say otherwise, further, they have agreed a 60 day notice period should the Indian government make such an announcement.

[codename]

I can't see Gibson going back to one piece boards because this case is over. They went to two piece boards because they have difficulty sourcing wood supply. Nothing changed and I don't believe they got their wood back.

[Guest farnsbarns]

I can't see Gibson going back to one piece boards because this case is over. They went to two piece boards because they have difficulty sourcing wood supply. Nothing changed and I don't believe they got their wood back.

 

Good grief, please read the facts. They ARE getting the Indian rosewood back and they have been told they can resume imports of the required thickness. Speculation is fine but after the facts have been ascertained, it's pointless misinformation.

[zigzag]

... This probably cost us as taxpayers well in excess of ten million dollars in enforcement action and that doesn't even begin to examine the millions spent since then by the government on attorney and agents and press releases and on and on.

 

I have no way of knowing what the government spent, but I'm thinking it is not as high as you think. (And btw, I don't think the government had any press releases prior to the settlement.) The most effective course for the government seems to have been inactivity.

 

Though Gibson got by with little more than a slap on the wrist in fines, the potential existed for jail time and more severe fines. We were all saying this would force Gibson to move to China, Gibson has already made moves to change fingerboards and use inferior woods (and plastic?), and even though Henry has made effective political statements to court public sympathy, the brand has suffered. The higher ups may be high fiving, but they are probably also thinking that they dodged a bullet, and the fines were not the only costs incurred in this incident.

[MrNylon]

My 2012 SG Std. Bass has the Baked Maple board. I didn't think I'd like it, until I looked at one up close, and played it. The feel, and the sound of the Baked Maple with the Nylon bass strings is great. It's nice having a Maple board on a Gibson Bass. The Baked Maple is a one piece board also. No more Fender Maple board basses here.

[Riffster]

Thanks, it is going into the shop tomorrow where I bought my PRS SE Santana from to get a complete tuneup, EB Cobalts, and Planet Waves Autotrim tuners.

I will ask the tech to look at the board and see if it is one or two piece.

Would it be worth having him swap to a better nut if he has to take the white one off to view the fret board?

 

The improvement over the stock corian nut will be negligible, as long as the stock nut is slotted properly.

 

Some folks say SG '61s have a small neck joint and that is the reason for tuning issues, my SG 24 50th anniversary has the longer neck joint and tuning is rock solid even when switching from standard to drop D back and forth.

[Casino4Life]

I've heard the neck joints on the new Standards are pretty strong

[milod]

I'll let my comments on the Gibson vs. Fish and Wildlife Service remain in the other similar thread on the forum lounge.

 

But...

 

All kidding aside, I get a big kick out of folks here talking about how horrid Gibson is for using "new" materials for fingerboards when... gee, some of their major competitors are using them and touting how wonderful they are for using stuff such as the synthetics. Martin is a good example.

 

Personally I figure there are two issues here: 1. Why there would be an automatic response against Gibsons made with the same sorts of materials very successfully used by high-end competitors and, 2. Just how good are some of these synthetics.

 

Back in the '50s and '60s, the guitar business exploded. Foreign competition went from orange crates with frets to some really nice stuff. Two major old-line guitar manufacturers went belly-up because they couldn't keep up with the changes. Gibson, Fender and others got sold as succession vs. cash brought buyouts. Martin sorta escaped, but not entirely as their own import lines and plastic alternatives cropped up sometimes at least partially under the radar.

 

First, I think at some point people will forget the quality issues and simply continue to hate HenryJ because it's fun to do so and meets their own world view.

 

That's gonna be, IMHO, because within the lifetime of today's 40-year-olds, it's likely that rosewood will be as rare on guitar fingerboards as ebony has become - or more so. It darned well be as rare as elephant ivory.

 

So the question instead has been researched for quite a while. What materials other than wood can make a guitar that will be accepted by guitar buyers.

 

I'd suggest that the types who don't care much as long as it's playable and there's a sound they like, will do like folks who bought Fenders and Ovations.

 

Those who feel that looks, traditional materials, construction and "feel" are as important as sound and playability are almost certain to be bothered that such as Gibson will be making some changes. Those with a "look and sound" as well as "trademark pride" will keep buying Martins regardless if they're made of particle board and plastic.

 

The bottom line is that I think our all "solid" wood guitars with set necks and such will be relegated to museums and we'll be playing various plastics that retain as much look and feel as possible. We won't have certain woods even as we don't have real tortoiseshell.

 

m

[CoreyT]

I posted back in post 5 that I was wondering when Gibson went to the two piece rosewood fretboard on the 2012 '61 Reissue SG.

I had it confirmed today from the shop that put my new tuners on for me that I do indeed have a one piece fretboard.

If anyone wants to break the date down when my SG was made (I know I posted it somewhere before) here is the info on the headstock.

I picked up the guitar on March the 17th.

 

Somehow the sales guy at GC (Also Queensryche's guitar tech) knew I had a rare one when I took it back to him to find out why it was not staying in tune.

Other sales guy who put the Titaniums on had not stretched the strings.

He had mentioned I may have had one of the last single piece fretboards.

 

[Guest farnsbarns]

I posted back in post 5 that I was wondering when Gibson went to the two piece rosewood fretboard on the 2012 '61 Reissue SG.

I had it confirmed today from the shop that put my new tuners on for me that I do indeed have a one piece fretboard.

If anyone wants to break the date down when my SG was made (I know I posted it somewhere before) here is the info on the headstock.

I picked up the guitar on March the 17th.

 

Somehow the sales guy at GC (Also Queensryche's guitar tech) knew I had a rare one when I took it back to him to find out why it was not staying in tune.

Other sales guy who put the Titaniums on had not stretched the strings.

He had mentioned I may have had one of the last single piece fretboards.

 

 

2 March 12

[CoreyT]

Thanks.

Wow I had it two weeks after it was made.

Guitar Center wanted me to take a demo and I said to order me a new one that had not been abused by window shoppers :D