Elmer Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yes you read it right...I put my ES175 on ebay. The buzz it had, does not goes away. the wooden beams inside body are probably vibrating in such away that you hear an extra sound when play it acoustic...I don't really hear it when I play amplified...but I start feeling the buzz. Some say that it supose to be that way but I played other archtops who didn't had a buzz. I still like the ES175 and before I played the gretsch it was the best guitar I ever played on. (feels strange to say but, I cannot help it). I did not had good luck with my Es175, first the blond with fret inlay cracks, now the sunburst with a buzzz. I played a G6120RHH (Gretsch Guitar Reverend Horton Heat G6120RHH) and well...it suits my styl better. I cannot afford to have 2 guitars costing over 3K euro. So to be able to get that G6120Rhh the Es175 needs to go. But I still aiming for that L1...So...can I stay on the Gibson forum or am I banned now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 All semis can be prone to buzzing, seems to me - I have a friend who tried 3 175s and the one he eventually kept still has a buzz. It is usually caused by a pickup against the pickup surround, the pickup springs or possibly the wires inside touching the top. I have one semi (see my avatar) which took me years to finally cure of every single irritating buzz. With my friend's 175, it is definitely the pickups or screws and springs vibrating. It is actually fairly easy to fix once you have isolated the cause, and if you have the nerve to take the pickups off your guitar - no unwiring or rewiring is necessary, you just have to unscrew and lift the whole pickup assembly out including the surround so you can see what's what. Now I have just bought a cheap but very nice Gretsch-inspired Korean-made semi, and the acoustic buzzing/noise/resonance is ferocious but doesn't come through the pickups. I've tied all the wiring together, made sure the scratch plate isn't touching anywhere, and still have noise. By a process of elimination, it must be coming from the pickups touching their surrounds. However it's a lot easier to accept on a £200 guitar than a £2k one! Best of luck - you may find that whatever semi-acoustic guitar you get there will be some sort of buzzing or vibration to deal with! Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 It is the bridge pick up. If I lower it 6 screw turns the buzz is gone. But...then the pup is too low. I pulled out the element, the springs just look fine. So, my guess is that there is something vibrating (a loose wooden beam end, I saw one in there) and that vibrating causes the pup starts buzzing. It is a good guitar but...I am frustrated, first the fret inlay cracks, the nitro minor faulth at the pick guard, the buzz, I guess I expected more from a 3000K euro guitar. The sound in the lower regions is perfect, really perfect. but once I get to the 7th, 8th fret the buzzing start. My own faulth, I had to have a ES175 before I even know what it sounded or how it played, got fixated on that and bought it ... maybe a kind of rage-buy, dunno. Lessons learned, I know now what to look at, what to listen at etc...so the next buy I will do better( more playing and looking in the shop before I pay and bring it home). But don't get me wrong: ES175 is a beautifull and very good guitar! And probably it is going to hurt a little when I sell it...but I cannot afford a few expensive guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yes you read it right...I put my ES175 on ebay. The buzz it had, does not goes away. the wooden beams inside body are probably vibrating in such away that you hear an extra sound when play it acoustic...I don't really hear it when I play amplified...but I start feeling the buzz. Some say that it supose to be that way but I played other archtops who didn't had a buzz. I still like the ES175 and before I played the gretsch it was the best guitar I ever played on. (feels strange to say but, I cannot help it). I did not had good luck with my Es175, first the blond with fret inlay cracks, now the sunburst with a buzzz. I played a G6120RHH (Gretsch Guitar Reverend Horton Heat G6120RHH) and well...it suits my styl better. I cannot afford to have 2 guitars costing over 3K euro. So to be able to get that G6120Rhh the Es175 needs to go. But I still aiming for that L1...So...can I stay on the Gibson forum or am I banned now? Hey I may be interested in your guitar... I am in Spain, I also have a Gretch Chet Atkins 6120 I think you would love... Lets talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 It is the bridge pick up. If I lower it 6 screw turns the buzz is gone. But...then the pup is too low. I pulled out the element, the springs just look fine. uh...no offense there chief, but most guitar players haven't used springs since surgical tubing became pretty readily available in the way early 90's. If you moved the pickups and the "buzz" stopped, it was the springs, which you should make go away for something quieter like tubing. So, my guess is that there is something vibrating (a loose wooden beam end, I saw one in there) I doubt it very much. and that vibrating causes the pup starts buzzing. It is a good guitar but...I am frustrated, first the fret inlay cracks, the nitro minor faulth at the pick guard, the buzz, I guess I expected more from a 3000K euro guitar. The sound in the lower regions is perfect, really perfect. but once I get to the 7th, 8th fret the buzzing start. My own faulth, I had to have a ES175 before I even know what it sounded or how it played, got fixated on that and bought it ... maybe a kind of rage-buy, dunno. Lessons learned, I know now what to look at, what to listen at etc...so the next buy I will do better( more playing and looking in the shop before I pay and bring it home). But don't get me wrong: ES175 is a beautifull and very good guitar! And probably it is going to hurt a little when I sell it...but I cannot afford a few expensive guitars. Good luck with that. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hey I may be interested in your guitar... I am in Spain, I also have a Gretch Chet Atkins 6120 I think you would love... Lets talk... Ur mail box is full... That would be intresting, can you send me some pictures? Mine is a few months old, perfect condition except the buzz of course...first I gonna see what the tubing means instead of the springs.. What does the tubing thingy means? something quieter like tubing, can u explane that, can I do that my self? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Surgical tubing, available in a variety of sizes. Take the springs off, throw them away. Put a piece of surgical tubing over the screw in place of the spring. Done. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Surgical tubing, available in a variety of sizes. Take the springs off, throw them away. Put a piece of surgical tubing over the screw in place of the spring. Done. rct I gonna do that first...because rage selling seems even worst then rage buying. I brought it to a luthier, he said it was not the pup, I told him 10 times it was the pup because if I lower that pup the buzzing is gone...he kept on telling it was a loose wooden beam. First time I went to a luthier...next time I do it all my self with the little help of you peeps here. Tomorrow I get me some tubes and try this...if the buzz is gone...I owe you one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I gonna do that first...because rage selling seems even worst then rage buying. I brought it to a luthier, he said it was not the pup, I told him 10 times it was the pup because if I lower that pup the buzzing is gone...he kept on telling it was a loose wooden beam. First time I went to a luthier...next time I do it all my self with the little help of you peeps here. Tomorrow I get me some tubes and try this...if the buzz is gone...I owe you one. You should be able to find exactly what you need, should be snug on the screw, but allow the screw to move, so it can compress as you bring the pickups up and it can expand as you bring them down. I use exactly what I need to keep my pickups exactly where I want them, which is flush with the guitar top usually, your mileage will vary, and you may have to do it a couple times to get it right, but it will work. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Ur mail box is full... That would be intresting, can you send me some pictures? Mine is a few months old, perfect condition except the buzz of course...first I gonna see what the tubing means instead of the springs.. What does the tubing thingy means? something quieter like tubing, can u explane that, can I do that my self? Emptied my mail Box... I'll send you some pics, give me an e-mail Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The buzz drove me stark raving mad... Until I put a little piece of felt under the pick guard where it was buzzing with the bridge pickup. The 175 IMHO is the perfect combination of guitar-ness when electrified... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 I did the tubing...first time the tubes where to short...so that was bad, but then I did it again with longer tubes and now the buzz is gone. But man man man, I need a good luthier. The one I brought the 175 too is maybe a good guitar builder but I never let him touch my gibson again. The lower E string buzzes now, it toches a fret when I pull it to hard, that was not before he touched it. When tubing I watched previous pics of my guitar to see how the pups must be placed and I saw that man had put my pup back in wrong. Like this: He also tightened my truss rod and make the nut lower...probably one of those make the E-string buzz against the 1st fret. I can get that buzz get less (not go away, but less) by pulling up my bridge but now that E sting is 0.5cm away from the neck. If someone know's a GOOD luthier near Antwerp, let me know please. But the buzz I had first is gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Great stuff, so glad to hear it....you can adjust the truss rod yourself but I would advise loosening it (goes from left to right/bass side to treble obviously) by no more than 1/4 turn initially and probably 1/2 turn maximum. I believe this will probably cure the buzz you have now got. I am not sure whether you need a hex wrench or a spanner though. Tune the 2 middle strings down a bit but not the others and check as you go whether the buzz is gone. Also note that doing this will put a very slight curve in the neck so you might notice a difference in the action further up the neck. This is why you should do only a small bit to start. With some experience of doing this, you can set up a guitar really well (but if a truss rod is tight and doesn't want to go tighter you leave it alone or even loosen it off very slightly). Please excuse me if you know all this already! Then you'll make your own nut from the billiard ball? Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Great stuff, so glad to hear it....you can adjust the truss rod yourself but I would advise loosening it (goes from left to right/bass side to treble obviously) by no more than 1/4 turn initially and probably 1/2 turn maximum. I believe this will probably cure the buzz you have now got. I am not sure whether you need a hex wrench or a spanner though. Tune the 2 middle strings down a bit but not the others and check as you go whether the buzz is gone. Also note that doing this will put a very slight curve in the neck so you might notice a difference in the action further up the neck. This is why you should do only a small bit to start. With some experience of doing this, you can set up a guitar really well (but if a truss rod is tight and doesn't want to go tighter you leave it alone or even loosen it off very slightly). Please excuse me if you know all this already! Then you'll make your own nut from the billiard ball? Regards! Thanx for the advice. I did not know but I thought it was the to tight. So I loosend it 1/4. And the buzz is less. But I did not dare to turn an other 1/4 (don't know much about truss rod and I don't want to kill the guitar). Then I put on new strings 13s instead if 12s (got big strong hands, other strings feel like elastics) and now the buzz is gone. But I want to lower my bridge a little, if I lower the bridge does that effect the buzz at the first fret? Will the low nut not alowing me lowering the bridge? And yes I am going to make a red nut for my ES175...I don't care if it is going to be ugly, haha. I learned on this forum so much...incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Thanx for the advice. I did not know but I thought it was the to tight. So I loosend it 1/4. And the buzz is less. But I did not dare to turn an other 1/4 (don't know much about truss rod and I don't want to kill the guitar). Then I put on new strings 13s instead if 12s (got big strong hands, other strings feel like elastics) and now the buzz is gone. But I want to lower my bridge a little, if I lower the bridge does that effect the buzz at the first fret? Will the low nut not alowing me lowering the bridge? And yes I am going to make a red nut for my ES175...I don't care if it is going to be ugly, haha. I learned on this forum so much...incredible. Don't think it will affect it at the 1st fret if you have now loosened the truss rod slightly, more likely at the 12th and around there. Bridge adjust on a semi is always time-consuming but when you get it right (usually a combination of bridge and slight truss rod adjustment) it is very satisfying. I take the bridge down until it is buzzing then go up but intonate the outside E strings 1st using a tuner. Generally the bass side of the bridge should point at about the middle of the F-hole, the 'diamond' bit - I don't know what it's called, and the treble side a bit further up. It can be a pain as you have to loosen the strings, move the bridge, tighten again and test for intonation, but it's really worth it. I just did all this on the guitar I mentioned in my 1st reply and it's really made it far better. It took a while of learning by experience and error to do, but the guitar - it is all so relentlessly logical! So if you adjust wrong, you do it again better next time. I love being able to set up my guitar well. You can do this no problem, I saw the bridge you made on the Dobro...hey Elmer I can't do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 you give me faith...I guess if you have a good guitar you might aswel learn all about it so you can adjust it to your needs. If I read my post back...I see I am a very rage-kid (43 YO), I mean...aarg a buzz, I sell my guitar. waaw look how beautifull that guitar is...I want to buy it...1-2-3 and bought the Es175...I am very impulsive I guess :) Glad I posted this here and found solutions and possibilities. ( the Es175 is still on Ebay...but I raised the price to 4k euro (I could not remove it, so I raised the price). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 you give me faith...I guess if you have a good guitar you might aswel learn all about it so you can adjust it to your needs. If I read my post back...I see I am a very rage-kid (43 YO), I mean...aarg a buzz, I sell my guitar. waaw look how beautifull that guitar is...I want to buy it...1-2-3 and bought the Es175...I am very impulsive I guess :) Glad I posted this here and found solutions and possibilities. ( the Es175 is still on Ebay...but I raised the price to 4k euro (I could not remove it, so I raised the price). I hope it all works out...don't sell it or I promise you will regret it forever! I should tell you about the 1966 Strat I once had...worst thing I ever did was sell that to pay some bills, I should have kept it and gone into debt. I will never see that guitar again (serial 161234)! Best wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I agree... My 175 was so frustrating with buzz in the late 1970s that I put it into a case and it stayed there for about 25 years. Then... about 10 years ago I took it out of the case for the first time. I gave her new strings and not even a change in setup. I like very light strings, but I had been using heavier strings. I bought what I like and it worked very well. I tracked the buzz and put a piece of felt between the pick guard and pickup. So simple. The guitar plays almost by herself. Why did I not sell it when I was so unhappy? I really do not know. In those days I traded guitars all the time. I do know that I am very happy she remains with me. She is not for sale. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderGuy1 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 $450 take it or leave it milod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Hmmmm... With all due respect, $5,000 and a company of Marines wouldn't do the job. Well, the company of Marines, but over my cold, dead body. And by that time I'd hope I'd have destroyed it. I know you're young, Fenderguy1, but try to consider this lyric to a famous old tune as a metaphor for how I perceive changes in my lifetime. But please, it is a metaphor from a guy who has sought to teach by metaphor in a number of subjects and skills. I will admit I have had discussion and argument with family over what should become of my guitars when I'm no longer there to sing with them in, and of freedom. I suppose the 175, at least, should be offered to my "baby bro" (28 years younger) who is a guitarist. The minstrel boy to the war is gone, In the ranks of death ye will find him; His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him; "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard, "Tho' all the world betray thee, One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, One faithful harp shall praise thee!" The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain Could not bring his proud soul under; The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again, For he tore its chords asunder; And said "No chains shall sully thee, Thou soul of love and bravery! Thy songs were made for the pure and free They shall never sound in slavery!" m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Elmer - It sounds to me like you just had a bad luthier work on it. Good luthiers are hard to find. As far as buzzing, action and the trussrod are concerned, there's a certain procedure that a good luthier will follow to make sure the action and the neck are right. First the luthier will check and adjust the "relief" of the neck, or how much it's bowed. He'll adjust the trussrod to do this. But he won't set the relief by seeing if the strings buzz, it's more complicated than that. Once the curvature of the neck is right, then the luthier will adjust the "action", or the height of the strings above the frets. He will adjust the height of the bridge to do this. From MLP forum somewhere: "Hi I'm David the final inspector at Gibson Memphis. I can give you the factory spec info. on our setups. You will need a mechanics rule to do this properly. To check neck relief: fret the low E at the first and 15th fret (not 12th) reach to the 7th fret and tap string. There should be a small space between string and fret - no thicker than a piece of paper. Do the same with the high E. ACTION: fret low E at first fret and measure the distance from the bottom of the to the top of the 15th fret. It should be 5/64". Do the same with the high E, measurement should be 3/64". Now measure the string height at the nut; underside of the string to the top of the fret. Low E and A should measure 2/64", D and G =1.5/64" and B and high E = 1/64". If string height at nut is correct, recheck string height at 12th fret with strings open. Measurement for low and high E's should be the same as measurement taken at the 15th. Pickups: Fret low E at 22nd fret and measure pickup height from underside of string to point on pickup closest to string. Bridge pickup should be 3/64"(I THINK IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 3/32), neck pickup should be 4/32". Fret high E at 22nd fret, distance for both pickups should be 3/32". Play test: Play every string at every fret checking for buzzes. Bend High E string 1 and 1/2 steps, beginning at the sixth fret and ending at 22nd, checking for "choking" and to make sure string stays in nut notch." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 I asked around in the store where I buy my strings and there they give me an address of a luthier, they say it is a good one. I've got his phone number. I know now two people who go there, they both say he is a magic man what guitar setups concern...so let's see what he can do to make me happy with my Es175 again. At the moment I managed to improve the sound, but still the bridge pup gives a buzz (played un-amplified). I know the nut is too low and some other minor things I want, I tell you the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Elmer... The one weakness to the 175 seems to be that there can be buzzing. Please try putting a bit of felt between the pick guard and the bridge pickup. Buzzing because they are touching, or almost touching. It can make a world of difference. That seems to be fairly common with this guitar and some other archtops. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The only three guitars you'll ever need: Telecaster, ES-335, ES-175. The next tier would include a Strat and a G6120. If I had an ES-175, I'd never sell it; I'd make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Elmer... The one weakness to the 175 seems to be that there can be buzzing. Please try putting a bit of felt between the pick guard and the bridge pickup. Buzzing because they are touching, or almost touching. It can make a world of difference. That seems to be fairly common with this guitar and some other archtops. m Even if I remove the pick guard, the buzzing is there. But it is definetely the pup at the bridge. I played the buzzing notes and my friend pushed the pup down and the buzz is gone. It is tubed now, so it is not the springs. I just had a good phone call with that new luthier. He certainly knows what he is talking about, I asked him out...all kind of stuff. He owns a Gretsch g6120 Chet Atkinson and changed the pups, so he at least knows something. First thing he asked was:"do you still have springs"? Next week he can make time for me. The fact that he owns a Gretsch g6120 Chet Atkinson is good, that means I can play it to see if I like the Gretsch more than my ES175... But thanx for thinking along with me...all this advice certainly gave me a better view on what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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