Dotneck Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 But this is for that kind of challanging playing..for voice accompaniment strumming ,I think a J200TV would maybe be better than a Lowden. Lowden makes great guitars but it would not be my choice for the rootsy type of music named by the OP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Lowden makes great guitars but it would not be my choice for the rootsy type of music named by the OP... couldnt agree more , lowdens are wonderful guitars , if i didnt know better i'd think merseybeat is george himself. but theyre only wonderful in the world that they are meant to be wonderful in! you may as well compare an epiphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markini Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well you state you like to sing and are a strummer. No matter what Gibson you choose, make sure it is a short scale and mahogany. Those two features are outstanding fo singing and strumming. I own 4 Gibson acoustics and it took me about 2 years of guitar hunting to find them and I live in Southern California where there are lots of guitar stores. Seriously, I played about 50 Gibsons over 2 years slowly aquiring my 4 acoustics. 1 Hummingbird TV onboard electronics, 1 standard Hummingbird pure acoustic, 1 Hummingbird Pro with electronics and a CSM (concert series) pure acoustic. All have the tone and playability I was looking for. For the record I have owned 4 high end Martins (all rosewood) and I sold or traded them all. Just didn't like the ergonomics. Tone was ok. There is a Martin I do lust after though 00-18, small body, short scale all mahogany body, sitka top. Reminds me of a Gibson lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I e-mailed the retailer who told me the only difference between the two is the color and if I'll hear hear a difference it's because they're built just differently. Solving, I think we are talking about two different things. You are talking about the standard J-200 in natural vs. sunburst. I am talking about the standard J-200 vs. a J-200 True Vintage model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Solving, I think we are talking about two different things. You are talking about the standard J-200 in natural vs. sunburst. I am talking about the standard J-200 vs. a J-200 True Vintage model. Nope, only True Vintage. AN vs True Vintage Sunburst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Nope, only True Vintage. AN vs True Vintage Sunburst Fair enough. They are quite different build/materials in terms of their affect on tone. Now, there just may be Gibson J-200 True Vintage models that have the standard Sitka spruce top (after all, this is Gibson we are talking about) but the top and bracing (use of hide glue here too) should be different from the standard - along with a few cosmetic differences in the finish and the type of hard case/case candy etc. Is it possible that the dealer simply does not know much about these models? It has been known to happen. After all, to the casual glance they look like the same guitar. Yes there may also be an upcharge for a sunburst finish (extra work and skill) but not by that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 http://www.musikborsen.se/itempg.aspx?id=44434&artno=185120 this one is 27.499 SEK =$4100 http://www.musikborsen.se/itempg.aspx?id=43237&artno=185121 this one is 33.299 SEK= $4970 It's in swedish but you could check the pictures. I was told by a seller that the price will go up on the AN to the same as VSB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 was it a sunburst you wanted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 was it a sunburst you wanted ? Yes. But if my amateur ear can't hear a difference I don't want to pay that much for a sunburst.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 i know wht you mean , as long as you hear a sound you like from one you can afford then it doesnt really matter what the next one sounds like though . you could search the rest of your life if you wanted . when i was shopping for my gibson , it was a j45 i wanted . i was in the second hand market and i live in ireland , so , i was jealous of our american chums on here who cant turn around without knocking over a gibson of some description.choices are limited ! i ended up with a j45 historic , but if it hadve been a natural j50 i wouldnt have been bothered . i wouldve looked at any gibson in my price . i hope you pick the right one, but dont get TOO caught up in the search for a holy grail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 http://www.musikborsen.se/itempg.aspx?id=44434&artno=185120 this one is 27.499 SEK =$4100 http://www.musikborsen.se/itempg.aspx?id=43237&artno=185121 this one is 33.299 SEK= $4970 It's in swedish but you could check the pictures. I was told by a seller that the price will go up on the AN to the same as VSB OK, I would not rely on the accuracy of Musikborsens website/brochure descriptions of guitars. They inevitably 'copy and paste' specs of similar (but not the same) models. I have verified this on several occasions for myself in the past. Here for example they give the same specs as for the standard J-200 (Sitka top etc) Compare that with what the Gibson website states: "The SJ-200 True Vintage captures the deep, well-balanced tone and powerful sound of these celebrated guitars, and are almost identical in makeup and structure as the most popular 1950’s versions including an Adirondack red spruce top, hot hide glue top bracing for better tonal response and VOS finish." I would highly recommend you verify for yourself that (apart from the sunburst finish) they are indeed the same spec. The 27.499 SEK price is what the standard usually goes for in Sweden (even if it often lists for 32.000SEK). The True Vintage model I have seen listed for as high as 39.000SEK so the 33.299 SEK price could be a discount of that. If however you can get a new True Vintage J-200 with an Adirondack top/hide glue bracing/rubbed down finish ('VOS') etc for 27.499 SEK then you have a bargain by Swedish standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 OK, I would not rely on the accuracy of Musikborsens website/brochure descriptions of guitars. They inevitably 'copy and paste' specs of similar (but not the same) models. I have verified this on several occasions for myself in the past. Here for example they give the same specs as for the standard J-200 (Sitka top etc) Compare that with what the Gibson website states: "The SJ-200 True Vintage captures the deep, well-balanced tone and powerful sound of these celebrated guitars, and are almost identical in makeup and structure as the most popular 1950’s versions including an Adirondack red spruce top, hot hide glue top bracing for better tonal response and VOS finish." I would highly recommend you verify for yourself that (apart from the sunburst finish) they are indeed the same spec. The 27.499 SEK price is what the standard usually goes for in Sweden (even if it often lists for 32.000SEK). The True Vintage model I have seen listed for as high as 39.000SEK so the 33.299 SEK price could be a discount of that. If however you can get a new True Vintage J-200 with an Adirondack top/hide glue bracing/rubbed down finish ('VOS') etc for 27.499 SEK then you have a bargain by Swedish standards. So IF the 27.499 SEK is for a real TRUE ViNTAGE should I get it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 So IF the 27.499 SEK is for a real TRUE ViNTAGE should I get it ? Well, I'm not you so only you can answer that. However, since you ask, I would say that if you: a. Have played that guitar for yourself and love its sound and play-ability b. Can afford the budget to spend on a guitar c. Have verified that the guitar is indeed the model it advertises itself as... Then sure, why not? You would be getting a great guitar! As of last visit there is s J-200 TV natural hanging on the wall at Hellstone's in Stockholm. Give them a call: 08-642 6475. (No personal or financial interest. Just helping out a fellow forum member). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Well, I'm not you so only you can answer that. However, since you ask, I would say that if you: a. Have played that guitar for yourself and love its sound and play-ability b. Can afford the budget to spend on a guitar c. Have verified that the guitar is indeed the model it advertises itself as... Then sure, why not? You would be getting a great guitar! As of last visit there is s J-200 TV natural hanging on the wall at Hellstone's in Stockholm. Give them a call: 08-642 6475. (No personal or financial interest. Just helping out a fellow forum member). I would suggest that you try to objectively 'weight' how important a sunburst finish is over a natural, and apply the same weighting to the importance of the sound/feel. Many find, when they find "THE" model they bond with - that finish is much less important than price and availability. I've had both 'burst and natural and soon became "color blind" when I realized the differences in them and was deciding which one to use on a particular day. I've even seen Justin Beiber alternate between 'burst and natural! If you are plugging in to an amp at some point, given the SJ200TV has no electronics out of the box, the way you go about it may have more effect on your audience then even the model you pick. If you would assign a greater weight to how the model you select sounds To You, Unplugged - then you can more easily decide between the maple on the SJ, mahogony on the 'birds and a possible AJ. Enjoy the journey and you will enjoy the destination when you get there! Welcome and G'luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Good thoughts. Sounds like he has got his Takamine for plugged-in live gigs though. Smaller, 'unplugged' stuff where the audience can get a greater sense of the guitar's tone would be great with the Gibson though. Having said that Gillian Welch and her guitarist appear to just use Shure SM 57's to play live with. Great sound to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Good thoughts. Sounds like he has got his Takamine for plugged-in live gigs though. Smaller, 'unplugged' stuff where the audience can get a greater sense of the guitar's tone would be great with the Gibson though. Having said that Gillian Welch and her guitarist appear to just use Shure SM 57's to play live with. Great sound to me. Yes, I use my Takamine for plugged-in. But I will look for a way to plug-in my future SJ-200. (this is something I have to start a new topic about later cause Im new to this) Regarding Sunburst vs AN....... If I was to buy a car I would probably not pay $6000 extra for for a color if the cheaper was still a beauty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Well, I'm not you so only you can answer that. However, since you ask, I would say that if you: a. Have played that guitar for yourself and love its sound and play-ability b. Can afford the budget to spend on a guitar c. Have verified that the guitar is indeed the model it advertises itself as... Then sure, why not? You would be getting a great guitar! As of last visit there is s J-200 TV natural hanging on the wall at Hellstone's in Stockholm. Give them a call: 08-642 6475. (No personal or financial interest. Just helping out a fellow forum member). Old Neil.... Är du svensk? Are you swedish? Was is a new one in the store? Price? They don't have a proper homepage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 A caveat to the AJ enthusiasms on this thread ... great guitars, but the one that passed through my hands was better suited for bass runs, arpeggios, and leads breaks (great for all that), than chinga-chinga strumming (more bark than ring). Not that it matters to the OP, who seems well down the J200 path, but fyi to others passing through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I agree with Rambler about the AJ. Of course, in skilled hands any guitar can be used for pretty much anything musical. However, the strengths of the AJ - note to note separation, clarity and projection - are less suited to a more unified sound for strumming and vocal accompaniment. IMO the AJ is more of a 'lead' guitar either for Bluegrass flatpicking or articulate fingerpicking styles. As the OP has other aims, the AJ would not be my first recommendation for that. Solving: I am not Swedish but live in Stockholm. If memory serves, the New J-200TV at Hellstones was around 39.000 but could probably for considerably lower for a serious buyer I suspect. But hey, don't ask me! Give them a call on Monday and see what they say. I understand why they don't have a 'proper' website. They have a LOT of guitars and other gear, both new and used, that they get from many sources. As one of the few independent guitar shops left in Sweden they are not tied into certain distributor networks. The downside is there is no standardization of info they can clip and paste into their own site, making maintaining a site a full time job for at least one person. I don't think the turnover/market is enough to justify it for a single shop. The others are usually part of larger shop chains so that the cost is evened out. PS: Regarding sunbursts. To me they are, like guitars with lots of pearl inlays, something you notice more in the store or in in photos than you do actually owning and playing one. Sure, it's nice every now and then to open up the case and admire for a few seconds but really, you stop seeing it after a while. This is coming from an owner of (amongst others) a custom amberburst Martin D-42 that had plenty of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 I found the same thing at thomann. $850 differs between the VSB and the AN The spec. are the same so i gonna ask the store if they can take home the AN. Could take those $850 and start saving for Hummingbird TV http://www.thomann.de/se/gibson_sj200_tv_an.htm http://www.thomann.de/se/gibson_sj200_tv_vsb.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR GIBS Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I had а similar experience few years ago. The difference is that I live in Bulgaria and by that time there were no Gibson shop here. Could not touch them. Two whole monthts I hung day and night in the internet and in the end I took the risk, and e-bay gave me my M-R GIBS for about 4000$... With problems of course. Another 700-800$ to fix all the problems and now I have my SJ-200. Still the one and only in my country. Big guitar!!!!!! Hope you are so big to have it, man! You don't choose the guitar - the guitar chooses you. Be choosen and cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR GIBS Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 ...oh, and don't forget: Get what you want. Not what your wife will tell you do not need... If you save your money for your dreams what is the sence to have dreams? The sound is in your head and the guitar was into your hands. Just give the blood money to the dealer and grab the treasure And keep on dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Even the Thoman site gets the specs wrong! This is why it is so important to play the exact guitar you are paying for. Specifications give you a general guide but each guitar is organic and unique. There are pearls and duds with the same specifications. When you are spending this kind of money it is worth doing your homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solving Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Even the Thoman site gets the specs wrong! This is why it is so important to play the exact guitar you are paying for. Specifications give you a general guide but each guitar is organic and unique. There are pearls and duds with the same specifications. When you are spending this kind of money it is worth doing your homework. So you think this is not a TRUE VINTAGE? I've found this guitar at three different stores and they all says it's a TV and in all stores it's much cheaper than the VSB http://www.luthman.se/Produkt/Gibson_Montana/1000000/1021000/1021003/211487/SJ-200_TRUE_VINTAGE_-_Antique_Natural Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 No, I am not saying that. I mean you cannot depend on spec sheets. You have to confirm all details for yourself. Unless the return policy is very good I would recommend buying from a shop you can visit. The ideal situation is where the guitar 'finds you' when you play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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