EuroAussie Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Im glad you posted this Dave, as I still recall well from time back how well your Gibby was restored, it was a great job. This one ... an absolute shocker. I wouldnt be just disapointed, I would be MAD here's what a restore job should look like ( and less money ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickjwill Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Dave where did you get that restoration done? Looks nice. Also: He wanted me to pay with a postal m/o but I insisted on using paypal and offered to eat the fees myself so I can use my credit card. He was ok with that. I started the process of disputing the charges with Paypal and Master Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Dave where did you get that restoration done? Looks nice. Also: He wanted me to pay with a postal m/o but I insisted on using paypal and offered to eat the fees myself so I can use my credit card. He was ok with that. I started the process of disputing the charges with Paypal and Master Card Chris Bozung of cbguitars in Fairview Tn. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 My heart would've sunk, as I'm sure yours did, when anticipation turned to disappointment upon opening the shipping box for a closer look. As far as the headstock goes, if the guitar was shipped too soon after finishing that headstock, the carriers in the lacquer may have not completely flashed off before being enclosed and shipped in a hot delivery trailer for a 90+ degree ride. Many would love to have an original "The Gibson" logo on a guitar, no matter what the condition. The rest of the work is definitely not Gibson-quality. But perhaps it is current Fox Guitars quality. ParlourMan's observations re: the photos on the Fox site are exactly what I thought when I saw these at his site some time ago. But, they are not just coincidentally bad photos of only the sunbursts. If I were dealt this hand, I think I may have given the person who did the work a chance to respond before releasing details. But equally important, did you see photos of his other work on his site previous to you sending him your guitar? (You may not want to answer that. ) The Gibson history & content that Paul has built into the Fox website is an absolute labor of love. I'm sure he felt good about the guitars he's built with his own hands & placed for sale at his site. Just as I'm also sure that we've all sat with guitarists who were enthusiastic about playing guitar, and played with much heart, but the skill level did not match up with that enthusiasm. To our ears. The big difference here is that there is expectation, and money involved. I'm optimistic that Paul Fox will want to apologize for not living up to his end of your expectations, and perhaps refund a good portion of your payment, allowing you to seek out a more agreeable restoration, and to consider it a lesson learned. Sorry it turned out as it did. Keep us posted down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 If that was my pre-war Gibson and my $1300, I would be absolutely hopping, raving mad. I have a couple of cheap guitars (Epi EJ200, Takamine EG416S) and both are finished flawlessly. If a £300 guitar can be perfectly finished, you have every right to expect perfection, within reason, from a $1300 restoration job. I doubt very much that the chap who did the work would deny that it's substandard. It wasn't a cheap resto job, and to receive it with sharp fret ends, no setup, fretboard finishing issues (not to mention the many cosmetic issues) etc really isn't fair on you. I recall seeing Pfox around the forum, always came across as a normal standup guy, I'm sure he'll be fair with regard to your refund request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Paul Fox - pfox14 is banned from the forum. Any one know why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Fox guitars has not responded yet. Maybe he's on vacation. Emails during the restoration were always promptly replied to. I hope he is ok. I sent 2nd email demanding full refund. He seemed to me to be a stand up guy and I think he will do the right thing. Please don't get the idea that I am not livid that my old pre war Gibson suffered shoddy surgery. I understand s^!t happens, but most pro luthiers (or pros in any discipline) , when screw ups occur, break the news gently to the customer and start all over. Or hand the guitar over to you in shame and for free. They don't let work like that leave the shop and keep your hard earned money. This is not the way it is in America any longer. As the Money Masters put more pressure on the society, the people begin to resort to more base behavior to make ends meet. It is a horrible job..he should offer to refinish the guitar.....ho does it sound ? If it sounds bad as well,if it was me.. I would consider it a total loss & ask for a refund..and let him keep the guitar. (Those are words from a guy who has been screwed & re screwed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Paul Fox - pfox14 is banned from the forum. Any one know why? Maybe he restored a guitar for one of the admins. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Maybe he restored a guitar for one of the admins. :D LOL....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hmmm, I like the benefit of the doubt attitude Stein, but come on, if a workman sends out shoddy gear he shouldn't have, he either doesn't send it out in the first place, or he's hoping to get away with it... if the workman knows its a shoddy job (especially in a reputation/recommendation based type of work such as this) why send it in the first place. The website shows 'new' models in the same type of finished condition. I don't want to get into heaping it on pfox, but jesus wept if that isn't a cut & dried case for a full refund and a gross apology I don't know what is. It might knock me off the xmas card list but it's almost definitely the worst refin and burst combo I might have seen. Based on this thread alone and a viewing of the guitars on the website I wouldn't dream of any work on my guitars even for free, that's the effect a thread like this can have, I'll bet there's just as many thinking what I'm saying but reluctant to post it due to pfox being a member. I'm not looking to offend pfox at all, but let's call it as it's seen, probably one of the worst jobs posted on here ever. If he wasn't a member here, this would be about 3-4 pages full of textual slaughtering for the person who'd done the work by now. I wouldn't focus too much on the burst finish. I don't like it either, but it might be a matter of taste, regardless of his ability to do a proper burst or not. The clumps and pools of the finish on the top are such as to be an issue, they are such that they won't cure properly and cause problems down the road. How much problems, that might be a matter of opinion, but this is a NEW top. Not a used one or a spray-over. The fretbaord also is an issue. Judging from the close up of the twelth fret, you can see that the one fret has been dressed, and isn't done properly. It also seems to be the only one. THAT indicates a problem with something about the guitar. What it is we can guess, but that skirts the issues: it is a NEW fretbaord. I can't claim to know what the current problems are with the guitar because I don't have it in my hands, but at the very least, it needs work as it sits. How much work I can't say, but it IS significan't that the two main things "added" to the guitar (top and fretbaord) are in need of work. Makes it kind of a wash. Especially if the fretbaord that was added is worse off than what it replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Oh for sure, the 'real' problems are much more of an issue. But..... I wouldn't focus too much on the burst finish. I don't like it either, but it might be a matter of taste, regardless of his ability to do a proper burst or not. It's hard not to focus on it, look at it.... it'd be hard pressed to look any worse... That my friends is a business killer, I'd invite anyone on here to say that they would still send their guitar to pfox for restoration after seeing this thread. I don't know the guy and certainly don't have anything personal against him, but the work speaks for itself. A truly truly horrendous job, calling it butchery would be a serious disservice to the butchery trade. I've never seen a finish that poor on even the cheapest POS guitars out there. It's so bad its mesmerising, I keep looking at it wondering What the hell he was thinking. A full refund and an apology are the least that's due. And if I'm honest, I'd probably say he deserves some compensation for his hassle and for having to look at it, what has been seen cannot be unseen after all. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It's hard not to focus on it, look at it.... it'd be hard pressed to look any worse... Have to agree with you PM. While the burst may not be the most serious problem for some it's horrendous to look at and would be a serious problem for me. How a guitar looks is very important to me - I know many will say "give me tone over looks any day", but how Gibson's look was a big factor for me when buying one. Martin's (and many others) sound great but they're too plain for me (as are most natural Gibson's). If Gibson's were finished the same way PFox finishes them I doubt they'd be as popular as they are (and we'd all be on the Martin forum haha). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The "after" pics look like "before" pics of a guitar needing restoration. It looks like he re-did several things after doing them once (replaced bridge). Total hack job. the marks on the fretboard, the finish (especially headstock), the bridge... all unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I have put smoother finishes on furniture ............with a brush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I have put smoother finishes on furniture ............with a brush LOL! It looks like he poured varnish on from the tin. If he sprayed it on he must've used a garden hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarrr Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You should put your digital camera on micro focus and take pics of under the top repairs... could be spooky. The lacquer appears to have been put on with a brush and not cured before sanding, etc. bummer dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Simply put, the quality of that job is totally unacceptable on its face. It looks like an amateur hack job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I can understand the dissappointment the OP feels, and there are undeniably causes for concern shown in the photos, but threads like this make me uncomfortable where there is an ongoing dispute and somebody's reputation and livelihood are at stake. However bad the work may be, however justified the complaint may be, surely the luthier deserves the chance to explain himself and put things right before being crucified over this forum and others (the UMGF thread on this guitar has already been closed). I'm not defending the quality of the work. I have no personal experience of the luthier in question other than having noted his contributions to various threads, but he has always seemed a likable person who is deeply passionate about old Gibsons, and that suggests that we might give him the benefit of the doubt that he might be reasonable when approached with a legitimate complaint. I can't help feeling that giving him the chance to step up to the mark privately and put right the issues would give both parties a better chance of reaching a happy resolution than a thread like this where everybody ploughs into a private grievance, particularly where one side is not represented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J-Doug Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 What a total massacre of vintage piece. A total embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I can understand the dissappointment the OP feels, and there are undeniably causes for concern shown in the photos, but threads like this make me uncomfortable where there is an ongoing dispute and somebody's reputation and livelihood are at stake. However bad the work may be, however justified the complaint may be, surely the luthier deserves the chance to explain himself and put things right before being crucified over this forum and others (the UMGF thread on this guitar has already been closed). I'm not defending the quality of the work. I have no personal experience of the luthier in question other than having noted his contributions to various threads, but he has always seemed a likable person who is deeply passionate about old Gibsons, and that suggests that we might give him the benefit of the doubt that he might be reasonable when approached with a legitimate complaint. I can't help feeling that giving him the chance to step up to the mark privately and put right the issues would give both parties a better chance of reaching a happy resolution than a thread like this where everybody ploughs into a private grievance, particularly where one side is not represented. excuses or not....Ive thought about this for a while, and I can not come up with any kind of reason that this would leave anyone's shop....if this would have left my shop in this condition I would expect to go out of business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDC Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 That's awful, just awful. I disagree with the view that experiences like this shouldn't be posted. The guitar service industry uses the web to attract customers and make money. If they reap the benefits of positive comments on websites, they should expect negative results from it when they do low rate stuff like that job. Allowing positive posts and closing down negative ones is unfair to the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struma6 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 That's a wiped on, not a sprayed on, burst no doubt about that. The sags, too heavy a coat. Don't THINK it was brushed on but could be. The headstock is air bubbles. I'm willing to bet he used nitro straight out of the can and not instrument grade, less reducer so it doesn't "flash" as quickly and is prone to sagging and bubbling. The work, all of it, is horrid. Sorry for the way it worked out, hope it gets rectified to your satisfaction! (ps...I love that original bridge! Not on an actual guitar but just as a piece) May be the angle of the shot but the fret ends on the bass side of the fretboard don't even look like they were beveled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 After looking at the sunburst examples that are shown on Paul Fox's website, I honestly don't know why the OP had him do the work in the first place ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The problem is that we don't know the terms of the original repair agreement, and whether or not this repair complies with that agreement. I have certainly seen at least one really excellent restoration of a vintage Gibson by Paul Fox, so I don't quite understand what is going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickjwill Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 the agreement was pretty simple. To restore it to as original as possible using as many original parts as possible. If there were no gouges ln the top or fret board or sags or bubbles in the finish or if Mr Fox replied to my emails or answered the phone when I called I would not have posted in the 1st place. I am happy to hear at least 1 person defend his past work makes me feel less stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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