ParlourMan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Man, this thread has legs, it sort of goes back to what I was saying at the start, Pfox's restoration career is over...... even the posts on the defense here are fairly scathing. I've also a feeling it's going to take more than 1300 to put it all right. I hope it sounds good as it's turned into a bit of a pricey bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Wish I could say this all surprises me, but it does not. Don't remember the topic & it was quite some time ago, but Mr Fox made some statements that seemed ludicrous to me, and my approx response was that his credibility had officially left the planet earth. Little did I realize the extent to which this would turn out to be true. Best of luck in your efforts to get this resolved equitably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickjwill Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 Has he contacted you to make it right?? No contact nor any expected. I opened a paypal case and he responded to that to paypal. Also since I payed using a credit card I disputed the charges due to the shoddy work and they reimbursed my account on the condition I can prove my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Also since I payed using a credit card I disputed the charges due to the shoddy work and they reimbursed my account on the condition I can prove my case. Should have no problems there then.... one of the worst jobs I've ever seen, if not THE worst. The no contact scenario is what's really killing him here, leaves the reader with a Fox by name, fox by nature kind of perception. It's been said several times but it really is one of the most horrendous things I have ever seen and about ten times worse than a job which would be fairly described as butchery in other threads. All in all a sorry sorry tale, has this story made it to the AGF also? Might be worthwhile as there are a few Gibson fans, enthusiasts and restorers there who don't come here. It would be nasty to have to re-read the same fate for some other owner making a poor uninformed choice. If the guy won't acknowledge you, you're left with no option but to kick where it hurts, the livelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Should have no problems there then.... one of the worst jobs I've ever seen, if not THE worst. The no contact scenario is what's really killing him here, leaves the reader with a Fox by name, fox by nature kind of perception. It's been said several times but it really is one of the most horrendous things I have ever seen and about ten times worse than a job which would be fairly described as butchery in other threads. All in all a sorry sorry tale, has this story made it to the AGF also? Might be worthwhile as there are a few Gibson fans, enthusiasts and restorers there who don't come here. It would be nasty to have to re-read the same fate for some other owner making a poor uninformed choice. If the guy won't acknowledge you, you're left with no option but to kick where it hurts, the livelihood. Yeah, but how the hell is some credit card finance clerk going to be able to 'evaluate' if the finish and work has been shoddy. I mean, with all due respect most folks who dont play the guitar cant tell the difference. They will see the before and say, well there was hole in it, now there isnt, looks good to me, pretty ... whats the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Yeah, but how the hell is some credit card finance clerk going to be able to 'evaluate' if the finish and work has been shoddy. I mean, with all due respect most folks who dont play the guitar cant tell the difference. They will see the before and say, well there was hole in it, now there isnt, looks good to me, pretty ... whats the problem ? At a push he may have to have the guitar assessed by an expert and a report created, issue solved I'd say, there's not a guitar related soul out there who could successfully defend that monstrosity. Expert aside, the most basic research on guitar refinishing and restoration would almost certainly find in his favour too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I would show them the pfox 'restored' guitar and let them A/B it against dchristo's example in post #21. Job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Yeah, but how the hell is some credit card finance clerk going to be able to 'evaluate' if the finish and work has been shoddy. I mean, with all due respect most folks who dont play the guitar cant tell the difference. They will see the before and say, well there was hole in it, now there isnt, looks good to me, pretty ... whats the problem ? My Daughter is 10 she could tell you thats a crappy restoration to say the least its a joke looks like sh&% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 My Daughter is 10 she could tell you thats a crappy restoration to say the least its a joke looks like sh&% Ha, ha ... well there is no argument then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 :D yeah !come off the fence motherofpearl !! tell us what you really think ! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
527 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 So Fox has never replied and just disappeared from the internet? I hope that $1300 was worth it. Is this your guitar on his website? http://www.fox-guitars.com/Luthier_s_Workbench.html Restoring a 1930-1931 Gibson L-1 flat-top guitar - FON #2 As you will see in the pictures this 1930 Gibson L-1 was fully restored from a "topless" carcass. The original mahogany back, sides & 12-fret neck were in decent shape with one long 5” crack on the back. The finish was very worn, scratched and had to be done over. A faded, but original "The Gibson" silver silk-screened logo was still visible on the peghead & was not re-finished and left in original condition. Back, sides & neck re-finished in deep dark brown, non pore-fill 100% Nitro lacquer finish (also the way Gibson did it to allow mahogany grain show through). Back of neck finish is shaded lighter with dark brown at the heel & back of the peghead for a real vintage look. New solid dark rosewood fingerboard and bridge. Mother-of-pearl dots; bone nut & saddle. Single-bound ivoroid top & back; 3-ply rosette ivoroid-black-ivoroid. 4" sound hole. Neck is dead-flat & level. NEW Narrow-gauge .063" nickel frets; StewMac "Golden Age" 3-on-a-plate tuners with ivoroid buttons. Ivoroid bridge pins and end-pin. Even as bad as this guitar was prior to restoration, or any vintage guitar in any consition deserves to be recued from being thrown away. We strive to preserve as many of these fine guitars as possible rather than seeing them go to waste. Left: Full fron shot of the "topless carcass" before restoration. Above: Inside the body and before & after close-ups of the original peghead with c1930 "The Gibson" silver silk-screened logo. The biggest challenge was fabricating a NEW Adirondack Red Spruce top with period-correct spruce X-bracing and re-creating an original-looking sunburst finish. Starting in the early 1920s, Gibson created their beautiful “Cremona” sunburst finishes using a “hand-rubbed” process. It requires special dyes and a color blending technique that is extremely delicate. Sometime after 1934, Gibson switched to a “sprayed” sunburst finish that is still the standard process used today. The results were a great sounding guitar with the volume and tone anyone would expect from an early 1930s Gibson L-style flat-top acoustic guitar. Above: Before - during - after shots of the new Adirondack spruce top with standard 1930s era Gibson X-brace pattern. In addition to repairing and restoring fine vintage guitars, Fox Guitars specializes in re-creating a “hand-rubbed” sunburst, both on vintage guitars and on our “New Vintage” series custom-made guitars. The end result was well worth the effort. It mainained a beautiful rich vintage tone that will only improve over time. Plenty of volume with a nice balance of bass, mid-range and treble makes it as close to the original as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Ha, ha ... well there is no argument then ... Hahaha it's true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickjwill Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 So Fox has never replied and just disappeared from the internet? I hope that $1300 was worth it. Is this your guitar on his website? No reply to me but others reported he answers his phone and email inquiries about services. No that is not my guitar in that article. I got an estimate of over $1800 from a reputable luthier to correct and re-do the resto on the L-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 No reply to me but others reported he answers his phone and email inquiries about services. No that is not my guitar in that article. I got an estimate of over $1800 from a reputable luthier to correct and re-do the resto on the L-1 What are you going to do now Nick? Take the $1300 hit on the chin (and presumably the $1800 to rectify it)? I'm a pretty patient guy (have my own problems getting a front door that I paid for 5 months ago haha) but you've spent a lot of money and deserve some recourse. I hope you find an acceptable resolution. The guy I'm dealing with keeps telling me lies - but at least he's got the stones to answer my calls lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis D near Milwaukee Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Fox guitars has not responded yet. Maybe he's on vacation. Emails during the restoration were always promptly replied to. I hope he is ok. I sent 2nd email demanding full refund. He seemed to me to be a stand up guy and I think he will do the right thing. Please don't get the idea that I am not livid that my old pre war Gibson suffered shoddy surgery. I understand s^!t happens, but most pro luthiers (or pros in any discipline) , when screw ups occur, break the news gently to the customer and start all over. Or hand the guitar over to you in shame and for free. They don't let work like that leave the shop and keep your hard earned money. Hopefully you can get some help from the folks who did the repair.....did you take it anywhere else for an opinion before you went ahead with this repair by this shop ?....Curious as to how far gone someone else may have thought this guitar was... ....refinishes are a real headache on a hollow body guitar...FWIW, I have been debating having a sunburst '30's archtop refinished to natural color....so I have been watching for any and all guitar refinishes I could see.....I just came to the conclusion not to do it.....bottom line, I think you can only take so much color off, with a piece of material as thin as a guitar's top...so there are always traces of the old color....if anyone has ever seen a hollow body guitar refinish from burst to natural where the orig. 'burst was not evident, please post pic's...... In the meantime, if you enjoy the sound, which is helpful at a time like this, then enjoy the sound. It's obvious the instrumenmt was worth repairing,and I'm guessing you won't find that particular sound all over the place. Hopefully it grows on you, and worst case,you've got an ugly duckling trademark that makes great music !! MHO Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Ouch, turned in to a bit of a sting to get this guitar going, eh? Sympathies mate. Look forward to seeing the final salvation. It's fairly disgusting that pfox wouldn't even respond. Looks like you have no option but to go after his future business by making this as public ad you can, one bad turn deserves another and all that... I think his name is fairly trashed here and I can't really sympathise with him at all based on the lack of responses considering he's actively still contacting others regarding orders and sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
527 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Did you at least get your money back for the work? Maybe a nice youtube video tour of this guitar with a title like Fox Guitars restoration and repair would serve as a warning to protect other old guitars from being destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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