Del Nilppeznaf Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 So, I thought I'd start a new thread regarding the old chestnut of the HB pick guard, because the one running is very old and, maybe, people will think they have read it all. In that thread I stated I was not that worried/ bothered about the design on my HB TV guard wearing off, well I am now not so sure, maybe I am comming around to IWalktheline's point of view..then maybe not..... Over the last month or so I have been... ok some here may think I am crazy.... systematically trying to remove all the paint from the design. The reason is. The design was wearing away so quickly it started to look..and I hate to use this word... but it started to look cheap! ... It just did not look good, with bits of design left here and there. ( Please no one needs to go into the option of the new guard ... we all know this guard does not wear out the design... I don't want the new guard ) So I thought I'd try and remove all the paint to at least make the guard look more 'natural'. From this process I have come to some conclusions/ theories regarding WHY the design is wearing away so quickly.... and yes I know about the paint being different than what was originally used. 1. The Yellow paint seems to stick a lott better than the white paint.. 2. The white paint is almost like chalk !!!!! you literally just have to scratch some areas very lightly and the white paint just comes off like dust. ( some areas are more prone to this.. see following ) 3. The design does not seem to be 'Deep enough' in certain places.... One theory I have why this may be is to do with the casting process... maybe the die used to form/cast the guard has worn down in some areas over the years OR there is not enough pressure being used to form the guard. I have this theroy because some parts of the design are barely making a groove in the guard.. directly under the sound hole being a main area. The white line that should run beneath the soundhole wore off within weeks of me playing the bird. The other main white line that runs along the back of the guard came off with no resistance. 4. Some parts of the design the paint will NOT come off... with out consistent attempts using varies tools and turps.. these parts are the smaller details AND the deeper pressed parts. These parts would keep the design with years and years of playing..probably never wear off unless you purposely did it. Maybe this is all just my theories... but I am guessing not too many people have actually tried to remove the design from these True Vintage guards... and maybe there is a solution in here some where that Gibson have not contemplated. I personally think if the actual design was 'pressed or formed ' more deeply into the guard.. the design would be much better wearing.. this has proved itself with me trying to actually remove the paint.. which i still have not been able to do in certain places. SO... some will obviously think I'm mad.. but I was not happy with the look of my HB TV... this is a real problem I have come to think.... The guard now looks better than it did.. but I'm not sure... I would prefer a plain guard I think.. like those used on the is it the Southern Jumbo ? Em7 recently posted a photo of his Gibson with the plain red HB shaped guard.. excuse my ignorance. I think this is the best solution for me sometimes.. but I will probably never get around to changing the gaurd.. also sometimes I like how my HB TV guard looks with just the etching visible in certain light. here are some pics.. but to catch how the design can change is very difficult. Long post but ther ya go Most of the design you can see from these pics is actually the LIGHT hitting the etching She is sounding better n better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Pheew, , , ! I need time to let this sink in Del Nilp. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 WOW! You're a brave man Del. Personally I prefer the guard with paint (even when faded).... but's it's not my guitar. All that matters is you're happy with the final result. Glad it's sounding better and better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdd707 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 When I was reading your post, I said OH NO! But then the pix don't look too bad. Interesting .....actually gives it a vintage look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Wow! looks like some serious pick marks around the PG. It appears that the gaurd actually did its job and protected the top of the guitar. I for one play in a manner that my pickgaurd hardly gets touched even when I play hard. For anyone that is concerned about an image being worn away from a PG should look into the gaurds where the image is on the inside for their next guitar then they do not have to worry about it. Any pickgaurd will get marked up from consistent playing wear whether it has designs on it or not. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Wow! looks like some serious pick marks around the PG. It appears that the gaurd actually did its job and protected the top of the guitar. I for one play in a manner that my pickgaurd hardly gets touched even when I play hard. For anyone that is concerned about an image being worn away from a PG should look into the gaurds where the image is on the inside for their next guitar then they do not have to worry about it. Any pickgaurd will get marked up from consistent playing wear whether it has designs on it or not. JM I think you are taking the light reflections to be scratches Jeremy.. there are no really visible scratches on the guard at all..except for normal wear the guard is actually in excellent condition..the photos are not the best..i will try and take some others..... I love the material of the guard...it is almost unscratchable i did think before posting this thread weather it is a good idea.. I do not want to be bashing... but i think my findings are valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 On a trip to Nashville some years back ren Ferguson discovered the original Hummingbird molds for the cast pickgaurds in a trash bin. Ren salvaged the molds and that is what is being usd on that hummingbird TV. It is a historical piece made in the same manner they were in the early 60's. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 On a trip to Nashville some years back ren Ferguson discovered the original Hummingbird molds for the cast pickgaurds in a trash bin. Ren salvaged the molds and that is what is being usd on that hummingbird TV. It is a historical piece made in the same manner they were in the early 60's. JM Historic the mold maybe but Im sure the paint is not & probably why design is fading off so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 When I was reading your post, I said OH NO! But then the pix don't look too bad. Interesting .....actually gives it a vintage look. I agree with jdd707 ! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 . Welp, it seems your a picker in more ways than one. Picking all the paint off the PG - it doesn't get much pickier than that. . B) With the paint gone, the PG has a curious and interesting look to it. Looking forward to seeing what you end up with. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Historic the mold maybe but Im sure the paint is not & probably why design is fading off so quickly. "Historic the gaurd maybe" Is that a quote from Yoda in Star Wars? The paint is not fading. The paint is being rubbed away by the hand or scratched away by a pick, which will happen to any such gaurd that being used in that manner. My playing style does not wear the gaurd because i rarely come in contact with it. Some who are very aggressive will wear any painted gaurd it comes down to the playes technique as simple as that. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 personally I think that in 30 or 40 years there will be Hbird TV's that still have the original design intact ... it all comes down to the playing style . I have a Lefty SJ 200 TV and it only has a little bit of fading on 1 flower . I have had it for almost 3 years now and played it almost everyday JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I know the story of the molds and how they came to be salvaged... I like it. My playing style is not particularly hard..... it just isn't. It used to be... the paint on some parts of the guard just wears away quickly... I'm sorry but it does. If you never touched the guard at all when playing then it would probably stay. My point is this. Seeing as the design had worn off so much..with in the space of a few months, I decided to try and get the rest off to make it look natural. I was shocked at how easy the paint..the white paint in particular.. came away. I have previously stated It did not bother me so muich... and to be honest..it still doesn't... but of course i would have liked the design to stay..as that was no doubt a considerable factor in the cost of the guitar. I would be extremely interested in seeing other HB TV's with the same guard after a few months playing.. I will lay money down all will have part of the design worn away.. regardless of playing styles.. I play 95% with my fingers Again see the reasons for this post.... could the original cast be worn away some..so it is not making as deep a design as it did?... is there another way to add more pressure when making the guard to make the design deeper?.. As I stated, some parts of the design are extremely hardy..and will not wear off..even with repeated attempts. The design was GONE in many parts before I decided on my actions.. and I found these things out The paint is not goood... I'm sorry but it isnt... Hell even wall emulsion would stay better than this paint being used. Again I am not bashing.. I still love my Bird... maybe I'll get a plain guard someday.. here are some more pics...its hard not to let the light make reflections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Del, how long was it before the guard started to fade ? Just wondering as I've had my HB TV for 4 months and there had been no sign a fading, and I'm a pretty agressive strummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Guys, I was chimming in to try and help with some information. I am glad that Del was able to find a solution by removing all of the paint from his Gaurd. I have contributed all i can to this thread. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Guys, I was chimming in to try and help with some information. I am glad that Del was able to find a solution by removing all of the paint from his Gaurd. I have contributed all i can to this thread. JM Sorry Jeremy..I didn't mean to come across aggressive if you took it that way? I wasn't being clever either..I do actually like the story of the molds being found..it's a great save of history and keeping these guards being able to still be made. And I haven't forgot the help you gave in actually getting me this guitar.... I am extremely pleased you did I will say though it is not down solely to how I play guitar, We know the 60's bird designs do not wear away...even after 40+ years..and we know it mainly due to the paint being used.. anyway It is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Guys, I was chimming in to try and help with some information. I am glad that Del was able to find a solution by removing all of the paint from his Gaurd. I have contributed all i can to this thread. JM Wow. Wow is all I can say. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Del, how long was it before the guard started to fade ? Just wondering as I've had my HB TV for 4 months and there had been no sign a fading, and I'm a pretty agressive strummer. Well.. very interseting EA..thats good news Mine was wearing away within the fist few weeks... guess Im just unlucky haha... maybe they have changed the paint... I don't know.. I was just offering some insights... here are some last picks..hope fully you can see the condition of the guard and surrounding body to see she is in excellent condition and no wild scratches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Del by no means did not take any of this as being too aggresive. This is a place where everyone is free to share their experience about guitars. When I see a topic where I feel I can be of some help I will get involved. Beyond giving the info i have I cannot do much more. For me to get into the discussion phase of a thread takes up alot of time that I need to focus towards tasks here at the factory. I am always here to help. I think that me saying that i cannot offer anything else to this thread was misinterpretted. Del, If you need some personal attention on this you know how to get a hold of me. Let me know JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Nice chair and wallpaper combo, Del. Paint all still there on my SJ-200TV guard, I'd imagine a similar depth of design was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 On this pickguard issue, I feel that the pickguard is one of the reasons "the bird" is "the bird." When I purchased my Hummingbird, I was buying the entire package: looks, sound, quality. My pickguard has the design embedded on the inside. No problems with it. My J150 is a different matter. When I received it, I was kind of shocked to see the painted design start immediately wearing-off. I put a coat of clear dull finish over it. The kind you get in an art supply store. The gloss might be a bit tougher, but I didn't want it to be too shiney. Anyway, the problem disappeared. Since then I've reapplied the dull coat a total of three times. Takes about 2-3 minutes to do. I contacted Gibson about the pickguard about a month after I bought the guitar and they offered to send me another pickguard, BUT, it would be the same kind of painted design. I liked the guitar so I figured I'd try to protect the design and it has worked. I sincerely feel that the look of a Gibson is one of the reasons people buy them. Sure, the sound and all that is important, but for me I like the looks also and part of the look is the pickguard. Besides, that pickguard is a healthy chunck of money, so why should it start looking ratty when the guitar is new, or even twenty years old and in mint condition? If the pickguard looks like it's flaking-away I think it hurts the looks of the guitar. The design on the pickguard should age with the rest of the guitar. For me, the elaborate pickguards I find on Gibsons are part of what makes Gibson so different from their competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'm in general agreement with MP. I think the pickguard design is the Birds' single identity, together with 'honey glaze' tone. I think I would rather replace the guard then strip it off its identity. Although, having said that I quite like the 60's Birds with somewhat faded guards, but not disappeared designs - big difference. Interestingly, the flowers on my 11 year old J-150 are somewhat faded but it never bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 If I ever buy another guitar I'd like it to be a hummingbird. Can you buy a HB with the TV appointments but with the protected design pickguard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I am pretty sure that is a custom order that they would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 28 months ago when I entered this Gibson-trip, I totally fell for the 1968 Southern Jumbo that soon became my first (in realty third) acoustic G. One of the reasons was that it had the all cool virtues of a Bird, but, , , no cartoon on the guard. To be honest I found the flora'n'fauna a bit silly and even remember leaving a post here speaking anxiously about the drawings taking too much attention in the temple. As some of you might know, that changed – I gave in to a growing fascination of the motive and eventually ended up as gigantic Hartford Snyder fan, if not addict (written about it many times). Now this development didn't mean I grew into not liking the straight SJ-guard – not at all. And here is the rhyme with the thread and your somewhat radical and dramatic step yesterday Del Nilp. I can see why you would want to clean away. Not sure I would do it myself, but I think it's understandable to prefer either the intact motive or a blank zone. Half faded – which I understand yours had become – can appear a bit lousy, , , others would say mojoed, depends on the eyes. Well I realize yours isn't all clean – there's a ghost scenery left that - to be honest - signalizes something strange. Still as evidence of history and individuality - a very personal statement it is. I'm not foreign to the thought. Been interested in the Firebird Custom for a long time, but find the guard far too flamey and more than once considered doin' exactly what you have done. Simply extinguish the fire. In fact I've already done a bit of that with the Dove here. Those straight red and green roses were too clear as I saw them and got dimmed down. A beauty she is - Said before : Why not return to the German panzer-paint and provide some stronger masks in the move. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.