merseybeat1963 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Rotten failed day yesterday.. After consideration for most of a year, I decided to buy a Pre-ban Ivory saddle for the J200 Prototype & likewise, to replace the plastic pins on the Custom Shop D42 Martin with ivory as well. To do this we set aside the day to go to Philadelphia 2 hrs & about 100 miles from us to a guy to shape the bridge matching the original bone(which had a shim under it) & to ream the holes of Martin to accept the new pins. We left the guitars..drove back to the city wandering about the day admiring whats left of our Colonial capitol..& went back up to get guitars at night. Plucked a few notes on the Martin whilst in case not expecting much..but I swear it sounded really good! I mean really good!!(How is it possible..it was just pins..they cant really make any difference) Now ... THE one we had high expectations for..Mr.Fergusons J200 Prototype..I played it...higher action which I don't like...!!!...and it sounded exactly the same as it did before...no difference. I figured..wow..the experiment was a failure..oh well.. After a couple of minutes repair guy says..to tell you the truth I ruined your saddle & I had to make one out of bone..!!! I mean I just don't understand? Ruining it is one thing..my loss..its human, I can get another one. But to make one out of bone..when there WAS a bone saddle in there, at the height Im used to for 20 years..(abet there was a shim in there)..when the whole point was this ivory saddle ,which was supposed to make this guitar sing... And paying to have this new bone saddle made..& to dedicate a long drive there & back gasing a 6000lb vehicle...after nearly a year of consideration..to accomplish nothing. Also while down there these construction workers were gutting the inside of a early 1800 townhouse..those thick morticed interior doors into a dumpster with those fine period Philadelphia box locks..what a stupid world. I jumped into the dumpster but I realized none were what we could use..oh man that hardware.. Depressing...gimmie some pills.. The Martin seems to sound much better just because of pins increassed depth of pin maybe..and the repair guy says the Bridge & Fb on the Prototype "looks like Brazilian Rosewood to me"...thats good.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Did you get the ruined Ivory saddle back? Got your old saddle? What repairman in their right mind would charge you anything for another bone saddle? Did he pay you for the Ivory he ruined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow. Knucklehead repairman. He owes you an ivory saddle blank or the cost of one, at least. Hard to find good help in this world anymore....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hard to find good help in this world anymore....... You can say that again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Rotten failed day yesterday.. After consideration for most of a year, I decided to buy a Pre-ban Ivory saddle for the J200 Prototype & likewise, to replace the plastic pins on the Custom Shop D42 Martin with ivory as well. To do this we set aside the day to go to Philadelphia 2 hrs & about 100 miles from us to a guy to shape the bridge matching the original bone(which had a shim under it) & to ream the holes of Martin to accept the new pins. We left the guitars..drove back to the city wandering about the day admiring whats left of our Colonial capitol..& went back up to get guitars at night. The good thing is that there is plenty of legal ivory out there for saddles, if that's the way you want to go. Ditto on the ivory bridge pins. However, I'm surprised you reamed the bridge holes to fit the pins, rather than sanding the pins to fit the existing holes. It is fairly common for pins like this to be slightly oversize, to allow for hand-fitting to the bridge. In particular with Martin pins--which are designed to fit with the skirt sitting up about 1/8" or more above the bridge surface--you almost always need to sand down the pins for the desired fit, which is an easy job. As a rule, I try to modify replaceable components to suit the guitar--including saddles, nuts, and pins--rather than modifying the guitar to suit the components Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I am of the mind that when you hear a difference with bridge pins it is probably not the material but may be due to having properly fitting pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 The good thing is that there is plenty of legal ivory out there for saddles, if that's the way you want to go. Ditto on the ivory bridge pins. However, I'm surprised you reamed the bridge holes to fit the pins, rather than sanding the pins to fit the existing holes. It is fairly common for pins like this to be slightly oversize, to allow for hand-fitting to the bridge. In particular with Martin pins--which are designed to fit with the skirt sitting up about 1/8" or more above the bridge surface--you almost always need to sand down the pins for the desired fit, which is an easy job. As a rule, I try to modify replaceable components to suit the guitar--including saddles, nuts, and pins--rather than modifying the guitar to suit the components Now I think the thinner pin would have been best. After he botched the saddle it strikes terror in me that he just as easily could have gone too far with the reaming of holes as well. I will know when I have a string change. That would be terrible. I discussed this with David Wharther who made the pins and he said the standard sized pin was 12A.. but when Martin suppies a guitar with plastic pins they don't bother reaming them to that size cause the plastic pins are not up to that & vary. He said he could send a thinner pin 12B but suggested the industry standard & getting a 5 degree reamer.. I thought the ivory would be too thin if sent as thin as those plastic ones..and those really stood up out of there. I should have got the reamer & did it myself or thin pins. I tried to get Martin to ream them to a standard 12A size as one of the tuners is rattling as well,but they wouldnt do it..my 2 1/2 hr drive to factory not worthy in comparison to the few minutes they would have to spend to do it. And what are plastic bridge pins doing on a D42..especially a Custom Shoppe one that had a suggested retail of over $10K..! The repair guy said he likes pin all the way down so ball of string curves under there, otherwise bridge plate tends to get chewed up. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Did you get the ruined Ivory saddle back? Got your old saddle? What repairman in their right mind would charge you anything for another bone saddle? Did he pay you for the Ivory he ruined? No ..he discounted new saddle some. I don't understand why he didnt just call & say I botched..what now..! Oh well on the bright side for most guys this new bone saddle would be considered nice & low where strings sound clean. It can be used by future owners. For me I use very low action. He's going to send me back my old one now. Ill just try again. But the thought of the wasted effort to drive there & the expense overall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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