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Casino ID help


Rodd

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Hi Guys, a mate has just bought this Casino and ive been trying to do a little research on it. Hes been told it's a 1965 Vintage casino.

 

I don't have the serial number im afraid. Any advice much appreciated.

 

epia.jpg

Shot at 2012-09-06

 

epi2z.jpg

Shot at 2012-09-06

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Hi guys, i now have the serial number: 3113512

 

Does this confirm MIJ?

 

Hi Rodd,

 

The guitar you posted is a Matsumoku made Casino, and I have one in that same Wine Red (WR) colour. Matsumoku used the 7 digit serial from about 80/81 onwards until production ceased in 87/88. 3113512 equates to First 3=1983, the 11= the eleventh month November, and 3512 is the production number.

 

If the bridge is original to the guitar it will be stamped "Japan" on the underside, and from what I can see there have been changes to the pickups, or more likely the pickup covers, as the originals were Nickel, also the tuners appear to have been changed, as the originals were mini Gotoh`s with Kluson type buttons for this time period. Overall though a nice guitar.

 

It`s not a 60s Kalamazoo made guitar, as wine Red was not a colour option then, and Matsumoku used a slightly different body shape to the originals with a wider waist more akin to a Gretsch outline, which this guitar has.

 

Gibson/Epiphone did not use 7 digit serials in the 60s, some early 60s guitars had 5 digit serials such as my 1962 Texan, but the rest were 6 digit serials.

 

If you need to know more about the specs, or the differences between the originals and the Matsumoku`s P.M. me.

 

Steve.

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Hi Rodd,

 

The guitar you posted is a Matsumoku made Casino, and I have one in that same Wine Red (WR) colour. Matsumoku used the 7 digit serial from about 80/81 onwards until production ceased in 87/88. 3113512 equates to First 3=1983, the 11= the eleventh month November, and 3512 is the production number.

 

If the bridge is original to the guitar it will be stamped "Japan" underneath, and from what I can see there have been changes to the pickups, or more likely the pickup covers, as the originals were Nickel, and also the tuners appear to have been changed, as the originals were mini Gotoh`s with Kluson type buttons for this time period. Overall though a nice guitar.

 

Steve.

 

Thanks Steve, how come guitar data project says its Korean made 1993? Really confused now. Also apparently in the F hole it's states USA Kalamazoo Michigan?

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Frenchie is right. Look at the neck binding and you'll see it covers the fret ends, that distinguishes it from the later Korean models where the frets go over the neck binding. I can also see from your pix that it's got the correct orangey/brown label. I have the Riviera from the same year and it also says Kalamazoo, Michigan. So did the bolt on neck earlier models and they weren't made in Kalamazoo either.

Here's a pic of my Riviera. You can just see the same label and you can also see what the original machine head buttons looked like.

Riviera_small.jpg

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Thanks Steve, how come guitar data project says its Korean made 1993? Really confused now. Also apparently in the F hole it's states USA Kalamazoo Michigan?

Hi Rodd Guitar data project is not a reliable source for dating 70s/80s Epiphones, and they actually state that themselves.

The label on your Casino which is Tan and Brown will indeed state Kalamazoo Michigan, but in this instance pertains to who owns the company name and not where the guitar was manufactured. If this Casino had been made in the U.S. firstly the label would have been "Light Blue" and the model number of "E230-TD Casino" would have been stamped on the top line, with the serial number underneath (Which matches the h/stock serial). The label on this Casino will only mention "Casino WR" and the "WR" is the colour code, you won`t find a printed serial on the label.

 

Three other details (Amongst many) that should convince you that the guitar isn`t a 60s model are:-

 

1) The printed "E" on the pickguard, the originals carried a foil "E" up to the end of 65, which changed to the raised "E" we are all familiar with in 66.

2) The neck on this Casino is a laminated (Longwise) 3 ply of Maple, whereas the originals were one piece Mahogany.

3) The originals are finished in Nitro, whereas Matsumoku used Poly, Nitro crazes even on the most pristine of examples to a certain degree.

 

Hope this all helps.

 

Steve,

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Hi Jonnyg, thanks for piping in, but the Matsumoku made Casino`s didn`t have fret end binding, that was reserved for the Matsumoku Riviera and Sheraton models (Some of the very late vintage spec JHS model Casino`s did). I have owned four of them over the years and none had fret end binding!

 

Steve.

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I have owned four of them over the years and none had fret end binding!

No fret end binding? That's outrageous. You should take it back and complain [biggrin] I must confess I had to sit down when the OP wrote that his friend paid £1000.00 for it. I had no idea they were going for that sort of price.

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No fret end binding? That's outrageous. You should take it back and complain [biggrin] I must confess I had to sit down when the OP wrote that his friend paid £1000.00 for it. I had no idea they were going for that sort of price.

 

Well I don't think they are fetching £1000, he was told it was a vintage 65 so has been miss sold it. He's currently in discussion with the seller and I've pointed him to this thread.

 

Thanks for the help guys.

 

PS anyone got one of these for sale? Quite like one myself :)

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Well I don't think they are fetching £1000, he was told it was a vintage 65 so has been miss sold it. He's currently in discussion with the seller and I've pointed him to this thread.

 

Thanks for the help guys.

 

PS anyone got one of these for sale? Quite like one myself :)

 

I would say that current market value for a very nice used Matsumoku Casino is between £650-750, and I am sorry that your friend appears to have been duped. However they are really nice guitars, that have their advocates, such as Luther Dickinson and Billy Jenkins.

 

Steve.

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Hi Rodd,

 

They come up from time to time, and I have bought two from ebay in the past.

 

I got my Wine Red one for £300 (It had only just been listed, and the owner had described it as Korean!).

 

Another one I got from the States (Also Ebay) for £125! Again listed as Korean, but it had no pickup covers, a dodgy bridge that raised the action to over 4mm, plus holes where a Bigsby had been fitted! That cost me less than £60 to fix up and I sold it on for £600 (Although I really miss it).

 

People are a lot more on the ball about the Matsumoku models now compared to 4/5 years ago, but they still pop up occasionally, mis-described as Korean. So you have to do your research and make sure you are aware of their specs.

 

This Blonde one is now living in Birmingham.

January08081.jpg

 

This is the one I bought for £125 from the U.S.

January08080.jpg

 

Here is my remaining Casino WR, with added Blue label and Nylon saddled bridge (It also now sports a Foil E logo`ed pickguard, and an original 60s truss rod cover).

 

P1010139.jpg

 

Good luck hunting.

 

Steve.

 

P.S. If I spot one I will P.M. you.

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Im looking to pay around £700 mark, as the guys on here say this seems to be what they're going for. I just missed a very nice one actually that just sold on eBay end of August for £725. Think you're about 2 hours drive from me so could arrange a trip over soon if that's alright?

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Im looking to pay around £700 mark, as the guys on here say this seems to be what they're going for. I just missed a very nice one actually that just sold on eBay end of August for £725. Think you're about 2 hours drive from me so could arrange a trip over soon if that's alright?

It's a no can do at that money sorry. It cost me 1300 quid with delivery and tax. Like I saId this is not your usual matsumoku guitar that was exported but a much rarer blue label model. The one ulct recently sold in Japan was 155,000 yen so about 1300 quid then delivery and tax would make it almost 1800 quid. I'm not saying it is worth that but i would want what I paid at least. Adrian

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Sorry but that's well out of my price range. To be honest I could pick up a Gibson ES330 for not much more. I understand that this maybe a little more rare than a typical Matsumoku so all i can do is wish you good luck with the sale. Thanks.

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Sorry but that's well out of my price range. To be honest I could pick up a Gibson ES330 for not much more. I understand that this maybe a little more rare than a typical Matsumoku so all i can do is wish you good luck with the sale. Thanks.

no problem. It is rarer than a USA Casino and es330 so I'm happy to keep it until the right buyer comes along.

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