Lowered my Saddle..interesting discoveries

[Del Nilppeznaf]

So,

if anyone remembers I was thinking of taking my Bird for a set up a couple of months back. She was past the 6 month stage and I thought she could do with a action / relief tweak. I phoned a lutheir in Galway, which is a 5 hour round trip from where I am, to book her in. it meant i would stay over the night and pick her up next day.

 

After a pleasant chat over the phone about my guitar I was about to book when he told me he was closing the work shop for 2 weeks while he done some renovations. No worries I said, I would call back in a couple of weeks. I then decided to adjust my truss rod myself, having done this many times with other guitars and I acquired the correct relief. ( The Frets.com sight is best place for this,, and he says it is easy enough to do by sight really, which it is ). Still I thought the action could be lowered slightly for my style of playing. She was at 2.8mm.

 

Well times are tough here..and i really don't have the funds anymore for an overnight stay and pro set up.. so I decided..after much deliberation to lower the saddle myself

 

Taking into consideration a recent post by J45Nick and his advice not to attempt any alterations to your guitar that could permanently damage it... unless you know what you are doing!

I fully agree with this line of thinking, but I thought the worst that could happen is I fecked it up and would have to order a new saddle. Not ideal.. but I thought we all got to learn sometime..and I have read enough posts here of people doing this themselves.

 

My first discovery was; my saddle was not truly flat / straight on its bottom. This was evident as soon as I lined her up against my steel ruler. The saddle would rock on its middle by a significant amount.

I had found at certain times the balance of my HB could change. Sometimes the bass would take over, and other times the treble would overwhelm. I put this down to her being a brand new guitar and strings, which I am sure do affect this.

I now think the saddle was most definitely affecting this also.

 

I taped some fine sandpaper to a true flat surface ( the top of an expensive studio speaker ) and started to SLOWELY sand the bottom of the saddle.

After around 3 hours, what with tea breaks and maybe 6 refittings of saddle and strings I was at the required action height. ( She is now a smidge over 3/32's or 2.5 mm ) Most of the sanding was actually making the saddle truly flat. Then a slight lowering of the full depth.

 

This is a photo of bridge and saddle BEFORE lowering

 

 

This is after. As you can see by break angle of strings there has been a significant lowering. ( notice the pins are still at slight angle..this is just the way she is..she is the same with original pins as well as above photos which are two different types of bone pins. )

 

Any thoughts on this are most welcome!

 

I will say. The action is now exactly where I wanted it: 2.5mm. There is no unwanted string buzzing, the strings will buzz consistently up and down the fret board ( when struck very hard ) and the height of E string in-front of the bridge is 1/32 under 1/2 an inch. I think she is just about spot on. ( The relief is also correct )

 

Second discovery: The balance of the tone of my guitar has now improved significantly. I had old strings on her when I first went through this process, and I noticed straight away a difference in projection and balance. This is to be expected seeing as the saddle was not truly flat and therefore was not in true contact with the bridge along its length.. giving rise to sometimes overwhelming bass OR treble, depending on how the saddle was sitting.

 

Now though

 

INTONATION...

 

Well, I had been having tuning issues for sometime. Something was just niggling me. Days before I went through the saddle lowering I noticed my G string ( yea that old chestnut ) was WAY out with its intonation. The other strings where kinda OK! but the G was maybe 20cents flat. This was causing major tuning issues further up the neck obviously.

After the saddle adjustment she was no better.... and other strings seemed out.. which leads me to my next discovery/question.

 

I think I knew from past experience, but had forgotten.... when checking intonation sometimes old string will mislead you into thinking the intonation is out!

Sure enough, a new set of strings and the intonation is now pretty perfect along all strings and she is very nicely balanced... IMO.. a real improvement.

 

So, does anyone know why old strings will sound true plucked open.. true when harmonic-ed at 12th but flat/sharp when fretted at 12th ?.. and has anyone other experiences with this?

 

I am happy with my work. Only responsible adults should attempt this I believe... so how I got away with it is a small miracle. B)

 

Last discovery:

 

As an aside. i decided to take a pick of the underneath of the bridge inside my HB TV... this is what I found.

 

 

As you can see there is what I can only imagine to be a mis-postioned abandoned pin hole above the actual correct pin holes. I couldn't get a better focused pic.. But when you run your finger into this ..it is pretty deep, almost all the way through.

 

i don't think it's a problem? just like having a very unusual 7 string guitar..haha.. I'm sure some may say it will affect the strength of the bridge plate .. but I don't think its an issue at all...any thoughts???

 

What is MORE interesting to me is the writing in the corner of the plate. I dont have a small enough mirror to have been able to read it...and as i say couldn't get focused with camera. It looks like some type of numbering and identifying wording.

 

feel abit like an archeologist trying to dis-cipher some type of code..haha.. will get round to reading it someday properly. Anyone else see this on there bridge plates?

 

Excuse the length of this post.. god knows if anyone will read it... if you have than thanks..

 

have a good weekend

[blindboygrunt]

nice one del !

its a good feeling when u have a go and it works out .

i sanded down a bridge on a D1 martin i used to have with high action (oh to live in america and have a luthier on every corner) and it worked fine .

i agree with nick that its better to let a pro at it but filing a saddle is hardly precision engineering.and like u said , just go slow .

 

u mentioned u might treat us with a song this weekend on FB 's video , i hope u do . like your stuff a lot and i'd like to hear the HB after all this work . you're bound to be brilliant with your new low action !!

[Gruffchris]

Hey,

 

Sounds like you took on quite a job, well done for not fecking it up :).

 

I've been thinking of getting mine set up by a pro, just to see what he says and if there's improvement.

 

My action at the 12th fret is higher on my gibson than my other guitars, but i read something on the forum a few months back saying "lowering the strings will kill tone"? So that's what's stopped me, good to hear there was an improvement on yours, I might have a go my self one weekend.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Hey,

 

Sounds like you took on quite a job, well done for not fecking it up :).

 

I've been thinking of getting mine set up by a pro, just to see what he says and if there's improvement.

 

My action at the 12th fret is higher on my gibson than my other guitars, but i read something on the forum a few months back saying "lowering the strings will kill tone"? So that's what's stopped me, good to hear there was an improvement on yours, I might have a go my self one weekend.

 

Hey Chris,

 

yeah..it's not THAT difficult but i will say this. If your even slightly un-sure about this procedure I would do your homework first.

 

Have the correct tools to measure your current action and know what it is exactly..and what you would like it to be.

 

Know that you have the correct amount of relief on the neck.

 

And consider playing style... sometime a low action will not suit all styles.. so if your a heavy strummer or a bluegrass player an action of 3/32's will not be ideal.

 

the Frets.com site is a great place for advice on all guitar stuff... it can point you in the right direction

 

Lastly this was not strictly my first attempt at such a procedure. I had previously attempted to lower the nut ..... [-X of an ex girlfriends Takamine.. and I fecked it up.. i took off too much.. I now know from being a member of this site that I shouldn't have even attempted to alter the nut of a guitar..and only a pro should do so.

 

i have learnt a lot over the last year and felt i was confidant enough and knew enough to lower the saddle my self. if anyone has a slightest doubt.. i would have a pro do it.

[EuroAussie]

nice one del !

its a good feeling when u have a go and it works out .

i sanded down a bridge on a D1 martin i used to have with high action (oh to live in america and have a luthier on every corner) and it worked fine .

i agree with nick that its better to let a pro at it but filing a saddle is hardly precision engineering.and like u said , just go slow .

 

u mentioned u might treat us with a song this weekend on FB 's video , i hope u do . like your stuff a lot and i'd like to hear the HB after all this work . you're bound to be brilliant with your new low action !!

 

You guys best mates suddenly or what ?

 

I was enjoying it before, now its getting a bit dull ... ;-)

 

However I did take a look at my Bird, but action, intonation, saddle height and relief are all in place, so not touching.

 

The only I might add that could be related to the topics is that I changed the plastic pins to bone, like I do with all my other guitars. But was shoicked how much the tone changed, for the worse ! It became brighter and clearer, but not in a good way, the honeyglaze really lest a lot of its nectar. Placed the plastic pins back and it all returned. Only time it happened where a bone modification didnt deliver a better performance.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

You guys best mates suddenly or what ?

 

I was enjoying it before, now its getting a bit dull ... ;-)

 

However I did take a look at my Bird, but action, intonation, saddle height and relief are all in place, so not touching.

 

The only I might add that could be related to the topics is that I changed the plastic pins to bone, like I do with all my other guitars. But was shoicked how much the tone changed, for the worse ! It became brighter and clearer, but not in a good way, the honeyglaze really lest a lot of its nectar. Placed the plastic pins back and it all returned. Only time it happened where a bone modification didnt deliver a better performance.

 

OOOOhh you jealous or something EA ???????? strange reply I think.

 

As i said my bird is well over 6 months..and has been in a very different climate than Bozeman where she came from direct to Dublin..then to me. So give yours 6 months and then check again..

 

My Bird was set up at Bozeman by Jeremy before shipping to me..and she was just about spot on.. well shows what 8 months playing and change in environments can do.

 

Oh and I noticed a slight change in tone with installing bone pins... nothing drastic as you seem to have found... but hey ce la vie i like em so i kept em.

[BigKahune]

.... As you can see by break angle of strings there has been a significant lowering. ( notice the pins are still at slight angle..this is just the way she is..she is the same with original pins as well as above photos which are two different types of bone pins. )

 

Any thoughts on this are most welcome! ....

 

So, does anyone know why old strings will sound true plucked open.. true when harmonic-ed at 12th but flat/sharp when fretted at 12th ?.. and has anyone other experiences with this?

 

Good work Del.

 

A couple of interesting bits you've got there.

 

Regarding the slight angle of your bridge pins - my J200 exhibits that tilt but to a bit of a lesser degree than yours. I'm guessing the spec must call for a slightly undersized pin so that the ball end of the string can properly pinch/tilt the pin in the hole to create enough friction to hold the pin. . Looking for other's thoughts on that - Nick?

 

Regarding intonation with old strings - More guessing - Old wound strings certainly hold a lot of gunk in their windings. Also the older strings are, the less stretch the have left in them. Perhaps both of these may cause vibration differences in plucked versus a harmonic-ed strings.

 

Okay - ready to get beat-up. . B)

 

 

.

[flatbaroque]

Hey Chris,

 

yeah..it's not THAT difficult but i will say this. If your even slightly un-sure about this procedure I would do your homework first.

 

Have the correct tools to measure your current action and know what it is exactly..and what you would like it to be.

 

Know that you have the correct amount of relief on the neck.

 

And consider playing style... sometime a low action will not suit all styles.. so if your a heavy strummer or a bluegrass player an action of 3/32's will not be ideal.

 

the Frets.com site is a great place for advice on all guitar stuff... it can point you in the right direction

 

Lastly this was not strictly my first attempt at such a procedure. I had previously attempted to lower the nut ..... [-X of an ex girlfriends Takamine.. and I fecked it up.. i took off too much.. I now know from being a member of this site that I shouldn't have even attempted to alter the nut of a guitar..and only a pro should do so.

 

i have learnt a lot over the last year and felt i was confidant enough and knew enough to lower the saddle my self. if anyone has a slightest doubt.. i would have a pro do it.

you should know better than to play around with your girlfriend's nuts....sorry someone had to say it :mellow:

[j45nick]

 

Regarding the slight angle of your bridge pins - my J200 exhibits that tilt but to a bit of a lesser degree than yours. I'm guessing the spec must call for a slightly undersized pin so that the ball end of the string can properly pinch/tilt the pin in the hole to create enough friction to hold the pin. . Looking for other's thoughts on that - Nick?

 

.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on pins, but I am a bit obsessive about them. I just re-checked the pins in all my pin-bridge Gibsons and Martins, and in all cases, the pins sit square in the pin holes, with no tilt. It would be difficult for a properly-fitting pin to tilt significantly in the pin hole.

 

What you should probably do is get the old mirror inside the soundhole, and make sure the ball ends of the strings are properly positioned so that they fetch up under the bridge plate, and are not hanging down or sucked up into the bridge plate or the string slots in the bridge pins. If the string ends are held in the proper position, the tilt in the pins probably is not an issue.

 

Another test is to loosen one string completely, so you can pull the pin and pop the string end out. Set the pin back into the bridge, and see if it sits level, tilts, or wiggles around.

 

I actually talked to Bob Colosi a bit about this when I ordered a set of pins for my SJ a few weeks ago, as the standard-size Gibson pins were a fairly loose fit compared to my other Gibsons. He told me he sees quite a bit of variance in pin hole sizes, but provided the string ball end is held in the proper position relative to the bridge plate, the pin fit is OK. The job of the pin is not to provide friction to hold the strings down. It is simply to position the ball end of the string against the underside of the bridge plate.

[BigKahune]

.

Thanks for that Nick.

 

I'll be getting out the mirror and looking into it. . B)

 

 

.

[j45nick]

 

As you can see there is what I can only imagine to be a mis-postioned abandoned pin hole above the actual correct pin holes. I couldn't get a better focused pic.. But when you run your finger into this ..it is pretty deep, almost all the way through.

 

i don't think it's a problem? just like having a very unusual 7 string guitar..haha.. I'm sure some may say it will affect the strength of the bridge plate .. but I don't think its an issue at all...any thoughts???

 

What is MORE interesting to me is the writing in the corner of the plate. I dont have a small enough mirror to have been able to read it...and as i say couldn't get focused with camera. It looks like some type of numbering and identifying wording.

 

feel abit like an archeologist trying to dis-cipher some type of code..haha.. will get round to reading it someday properly. Anyone else see this on there bridge plates?

 

 

 

 

My guess is that the extra hole is a registration hole for positioning the bridge. I seem to recall something like the in one of the Gibson factory videos.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Good work Del.

 

A couple of interesting bits you've got there.

 

Regarding the slight angle of your bridge pins - my J200 exhibits that tilt but to a bit of a lesser degree than yours. I'm guessing the spec must call for a slightly undersized pin so that the ball end of the string can properly pinch/tilt the pin in the hole to create enough friction to hold the pin. . Looking for other's thoughts on that - Nick?

 

Regarding intonation with old strings - More guessing - Old wound strings certainly hold a lot of gunk in their windings. Also the older strings are, the less stretch the have left in them. Perhaps both of these may cause vibration differences in plucked versus a harmonic-ed strings.

 

Okay - ready to get beat-up. . B)

 

 

.

Cheers BK

 

good points on the strings and harmonics.. could certainly be that when the string looses its 'elasticity ' it could cause it to be flat when fretted at 12th ???? Anyon else?

 

Also bear in mind the tilt of my pins seem quite pronounced due to the camara being so zoomed in. If you were to look at them normally.. the tilt does not look as much.

 

you should know better than to play around with your girlfriend's nuts....sorry someone had to say it :mellow:

 

haha....

 

she was a feckin nut..I know that much

 

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on pins, but I am a bit obsessive about them. I just re-checked the pins in all my pin-bridge Gibsons and Martins, and in all cases, the pins sit square in the pin holes, with no tilt. It would be difficult for a properly-fitting pin to tilt significantly in the pin hole.

 

What you should probably do is get the old mirror inside the soundhole, and make sure the ball ends of the strings are properly positioned so that they fetch up under the bridge plate, and are not hanging down or sucked up into the bridge plate or the string slots in the bridge pins. If the string ends are held in the proper position, the tilt in the pins probably is not an issue.

 

Another test is to loosen one string completely, so you can pull the pin and pop the string end out. Set the pin back into the bridge, and see if it sits level, tilts, or wiggles around.

 

I actually talked to Bob Colosi a bit about this when I ordered a set of pins for my SJ a few weeks ago, as the standard-size Gibson pins were a fairly loose fit compared to my other Gibsons. He told me he sees quite a bit of variance in pin hole sizes, but provided the string ball end is held in the proper position relative to the bridge plate, the pin fit is OK. The job of the pin is not to provide friction to hold the strings down. It is simply to position the ball end of the string against the underside of the bridge plate.

 

I remember we have discussed this previously Nick... and see above reply to BK regarding..maybe exaggerated effect due to camera.

After your initial advice many months ago I did what you advised then and above..and there was an improvement in pin position...but my pins still have slight tilt. After many re-strings I have realized that this is just the way my bridge is. I have checked ball end is in correct postion a number of times ..and it is always tight against bridge as you describe. I can remove a pin and the string will stay in position.... so i know it's not a problem for me.

 

My guess is that the extra hole is a registration hole for positioning the bridge. I seem to recall something like the in one of the Gibson factory videos.

 

I actually thought somethi9ng along these lines after i posted and was looking at the photo

 

I thought why would the hole be in the center..and I summized it could be something to do with positioning the plate..and/or the CN machine thingy... making it when positioning.

 

Thanks for input Nick and rest of you members.

[merseybeat1963]

Ive found only I can get the height of the saddle exactly right so I usually sand it to where it is close.. play for time & if it needs more, on new string change, sand a little more ..continuing this till right.

This of course after a pro has assured neck adjustment is straight(now I do this as well) & frets leveled & polished.

If you do it little by little the saddle adjustment is ok, & you've saved an incredibly long drive though the beautifull Irish Country side.

Just make sure neck releif is correct cause I lowered my original J200 bridge too low once compensating for too much neck bow.

[E-minor7]

Flags up the valour and succeeding success. I'm sure it's a good feeling. Nothing like a well set up Hummingbird neck.

 

Those letters underneath the bridge-plate could very well say : H-bird Dove J-45 or something like that – maybe a number instead of J-45. It's simply a burned in stamp telling where to put the thing. So much for my yen anyway.

The only I might add that could be related to the topics is that I changed the plastic pins to bone, like I do with all my other guitars. But was shoicked how much the tone changed, for the worse ! It became brighter and clearer, but not in a good way, the honeyglaze really lest a lot of its nectar. Placed the plastic pins back and it all returned. Only time it happened where a bone modification didnt deliver a better performance.

Interesting EA - Did put bone into mine and noticed only positive change. I know you are the glaze/plastic philosopher of the Board and as a fellow glaze-groover, I might try to return to the plasts next time new strings are strung up.

[EuroAussie]

 

 

Interesting EA - Did put bone into mine and noticed only positive change. I know you are the glaze/plastic philosopher of the Board and as a fellow glaze-groover, I might try to return to the plasts next time new strings are strung up.

 

I would definitely try that Em7. It could be THE reason why your Bird sounds less Birdy than you would like it to. I noticed not a small but a dramatic difference in tone.

[j45nick]

My guess is that the extra hole is a registration hole for positioning the bridge. I seem to recall something like the in one of the Gibson factory videos.

 

 

I went through all the Gibson construction videos, and although it wasn't perfectly clear, I would still say it is likely to be a registration hole. There is definitely one in the top of the guitar on centerline in this approximate position. Unfortunately, the bridge being fitted in the video (either segment 8 or 9) is a moustache bridge, and the bridge-setting fixture is slightly different.

 

Going through all these videos again (about an hour of viewing) I continue to be amazed by the processes Gibson uses. Seems like a near-perfect balance of machine work for consistency, and handwork for quality.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I went through all the Gibson construction videos, and although it wasn't perfectly clear, I would still say it is likely to be a registration hole. There is definitely one in the top of the guitar on centerline in this approximate position. Unfortunately, the brdige being fitted in the video (either segment 8 or 9) is a moustache bridge, and the bridge-setting fixture is slightly different.

 

Going through all these videos again (about an hour of viewing) I continue to be amazed by the processes Gibson uses. Seems like a near-perfect balance of machine work for consistency, and handwork for quality.

 

Most interesting Nick

 

could you post link to video ?

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Flags up the valour and succeeding success. I'm sure it's a good feeling. Nothing like a well set up Hummingbird neck.

 

Those letters underneath the bridge-plate could very well say : H-bird Dove J-45 or something like that – maybe a number instead of J-45. It's simply a burned in stamp telling where to put the thing. So much for my yen anyway.

 

 

Aha

 

thanks Em7.. that certainly seems very probable looking at the secret un focused hieroglyphs haha.. i would bet you are correct

[j45nick]

Most interesting Nick

 

could you post link to video ?

 

My link

 

 

The actual bridge installation is in part 8 or 9, but the registration holes in the top are done fairly early on in the series, when the top is cut out on the CNC machine. I just happened to start with this video, and carried on through the rest. You should be able to get them all from this link.

 

I think JC posted these links last month.

[onewilyfool]

Good info here....pretty involved to d a proper repair.....

 

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Repair_tools,_specialized/i-5240.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=297604

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Bridges/BridgeSaver.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=297604&tab=Video

 

This is the poor man's solution:

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Acoustic_guitar_bridge_pins/Plate_Mate.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=7465

[jchabalk]

There was a thread on the printing that appears on the bridge plates a little bit ago but i can't dig it up. Here's a picture i added to that thread though. It looks like the bridge plates are cut out by a machine and laser engraved with the type, there were a few different ones posted in that thread - this one's from my 2008 J45

 

[stein]

What a cool thread and interesting "observations" and answers.

 

A little note about old strings and tuning (intonation): Strings also get physical damage, as in, the windings at the frets will get crushed, and sometimes, the strings may get slight kinks. Even if they are clean, new and untarnished.

 

So, when a portion of a string has more crushed windings than another, you better believe they can vibrate differently or have different "stretching" properties.

 

Also, I think if you have equal "buzzing" in all places of the neck, that is practically the difinition of a perfect truss rod adjustment relative to the action you have it at. So, GOOD job dude on that!

 

The way the bottom of the saddle is and how it sits and the drelative differences in tone are worth checking into. Makes perfect sense, and often times, we actually don't notice things until we are aware of them. (Or, rather wonder why things are better or worse without knowing why).

[flatbaroque]

So,

if anyone remembers I was thinking of taking my Bird for a set up a couple of months back. She was past the 6 month stage and I thought she could do with a action / relief tweak. I phoned a lutheir in Galway, which is a 5 hour round trip from where I am, to book her in. it meant i would stay over the night and pick her up next day.

 

After a pleasant chat over the phone about my guitar I was about to book when he told me he was closing the work shop for 2 weeks while he done some renovations. No worries I said, I would call back in a couple of weeks. I then decided to adjust my truss rod myself, having done this many times with other guitars and I acquired the correct relief. ( The Frets.com sight is best place for this,, and he says it is easy enough to do by sight really, which it is ). Still I thought the action could be lowered slightly for my style of playing. She was at 2.8mm.

 

Well times are tough here..and i really don't have the funds anymore for an overnight stay and pro set up.. so I decided..after much deliberation to lower the saddle myself

 

Taking into consideration a recent post by J45Nick and his advice not to attempt any alterations to your guitar that could permanently damage it... unless you know what you are doing!

I fully agree with this line of thinking, but I thought the worst that could happen is I fecked it up and would have to order a new saddle. Not ideal.. but I thought we all got to learn sometime..and I have read enough posts here of people doing this themselves.

 

My first discovery was; my saddle was not truly flat / straight on its bottom. This was evident as soon as I lined her up against my steel ruler. The saddle would rock on its middle by a significant amount.

I had found at certain times the balance of my HB could change. Sometimes the bass would take over, and other times the treble would overwhelm. I put this down to her being a brand new guitar and strings, which I am sure do affect this.

I now think the saddle was most definitely affecting this also.

 

I taped some fine sandpaper to a true flat surface ( the top of an expensive studio speaker ) and started to SLOWELY sand the bottom of the saddle.

After around 3 hours, what with tea breaks and maybe 6 refittings of saddle and strings I was at the required action height. ( She is now a smidge over 3/32's or 2.5 mm ) Most of the sanding was actually making the saddle truly flat. Then a slight lowering of the full depth.

 

This is a photo of bridge and saddle BEFORE lowering

 

 

This is after. As you can see by break angle of strings there has been a significant lowering. ( notice the pins are still at slight angle..this is just the way she is..she is the same with original pins as well as above photos which are two different types of bone pins. )

 

Any thoughts on this are most welcome!

 

I will say. The action is now exactly where I wanted it: 2.5mm. There is no unwanted string buzzing, the strings will buzz consistently up and down the fret board ( when struck very hard ) and the height of E string in-front of the bridge is 1/32 under 1/2 an inch. I think she is just about spot on. ( The relief is also correct )

 

Second discovery: The balance of the tone of my guitar has now improved significantly. I had old strings on her when I first went through this process, and I noticed straight away a difference in projection and balance. This is to be expected seeing as the saddle was not truly flat and therefore was not in true contact with the bridge along its length.. giving rise to sometimes overwhelming bass OR treble, depending on how the saddle was sitting.

 

Now though

 

INTONATION...

 

Well, I had been having tuning issues for sometime. Something was just niggling me. Days before I went through the saddle lowering I noticed my G string ( yea that old chestnut ) was WAY out with its intonation. The other strings where kinda OK! but the G was maybe 20cents flat. This was causing major tuning issues further up the neck obviously.

After the saddle adjustment she was no better.... and other strings seemed out.. which leads me to my next discovery/question.

 

I think I knew from past experience, but had forgotten.... when checking intonation sometimes old string will mislead you into thinking the intonation is out!

Sure enough, a new set of strings and the intonation is now pretty perfect along all strings and she is very nicely balanced... IMO.. a real improvement.

 

So, does anyone know why old strings will sound true plucked open.. true when harmonic-ed at 12th but flat/sharp when fretted at 12th ?.. and has anyone other experiences with this?

 

I am happy with my work. Only responsible adults should attempt this I believe... so how I got away with it is a small miracle. B)

 

Last discovery:

 

As an aside. i decided to take a pick of the underneath of the bridge inside my HB TV... this is what I found.

 

 

As you can see there is what I can only imagine to be a mis-postioned abandoned pin hole above the actual correct pin holes. I couldn't get a better focused pic.. But when you run your finger into this ..it is pretty deep, almost all the way through.

 

i don't think it's a problem? just like having a very unusual 7 string guitar..haha.. I'm sure some may say it will affect the strength of the bridge plate .. but I don't think its an issue at all...any thoughts???

 

What is MORE interesting to me is the writing in the corner of the plate. I dont have a small enough mirror to have been able to read it...and as i say couldn't get focused with camera. It looks like some type of numbering and identifying wording.

 

feel abit like an archeologist trying to dis-cipher some type of code..haha.. will get round to reading it someday properly. Anyone else see this on there bridge plates?

 

Excuse the length of this post.. god knows if anyone will read it... if you have than thanks..

 

have a good weekend

 

I held a magnifying glass up to the screen to try to read the fine print, couldn't get all the letters but it seemed to say Pr--perty of K-it- Ric-ar-s...maybe the former owner or something...

[merseybeat1963]

Concerning what seems to be undersized pins..that guy David Warther can make you a set of pins that are larger than the Standard 12A Size (but he is in the US)

[bobby b]

I see the same little labels on some of the braces around the soundhole and on the bridge plate of my Hummingbird

 

They all say .. H. Bird/ Dove

I guess these are common parts amongst the two models