Band problems, seeking sage advise

[milod]

I think you've gotta look at a number of possibilities.

 

The OP is still, I think, in high school. But the possibilities are pretty much the same regardless of age group 'cuz I know folks in all age groups following the 3.

 

1. Beginner band mostly for developmental purposes; possibly playing a benefit sort of thing here and there as part of development. It doesn't necessarily require a full book.

 

2. Pro band: Requires a full book, then a real effort to book paying jobs. The latter is key to success - and also requires that the band's book meets needs of area where they plan to seek paying jobs.

 

3. Fun band playing mostly benefit type things. Should have some sort of a book for venues considered.

 

There are good reasons for each sort; there may be changes in the band's lifespan depending on various circumstances.

 

I personally see good reasons for all three basic types. High school kids and empty nesters tend to get involved in #1 and #3; sometimes either will change into #2 which does require a more business- oriented mind set and frankly, a more business-directed book...

 

m

 

m

[FirstMeasure]

Bands that view themselves solely as a business rarely make great music. Great music comes from passion more than skill, a shared vision more than a plan, brotherhood more than a business partnership. This is why we have managers and accountants, to handle the drudgery of the "business". That said all great bands have a strong personality to drive them forward, to lead. This is often not the best player. Leaders don't fire the weak links if they contribute to the passion, the vision, the brotherhood. Band leaders find the strengths of all the members and exploit them in a way to realize the shared vision.

 

Peace

What you say is true to a point, but all the passion and brotherhood in the world will not get your band a gig. And without a gig, music is only played to the windows in your home. The windows in your home will not put you on the radio, nor will your friends and furniture help you pay for drum skins when your drummer needs them, or a new amp when you find a buzz has developed after hours of practice. Nor will a talent agent or manager take your project seriously if you've only played to your windows and furniture.

 

Passion and vision are useless if one does not posses the skill to produce the end product of that vision. You'll have a passionately rendered lump of cacophony.

 

Talent alone can come off a sterile, but passion alone will not come off at all.

[Izzy]

Just because you have fun with your band doesn't mean it isn't serious.

For my grampa it was a matter of putting food on the table. He worked hard and it was stressful even though he loved music.

 

The question is what is your intent? If the band was assembled in the spirit of making music then fun may come second to long hours of work and driving to gigs and the stress of doing it even when you are not in the mood. When you do have fun it is luck and cherished.

 

If your intent is to have fun and make good music then you're not in it to be a professonal. Notice I listed music AFTER fun, because I can't believe making music doesn't come with stress. I suppose if you have fun jumping out of airplanes stress is fun, but for most of us that would be unwellcomed stress. I have fun playing, but when I can't get a chord right because I haven't mastered a stretch, or because I am trying to learn it by ear and can't figure it out, it gets frustrating. That is just me dealing with me! If I had to deal with band mates who don't work as hard as me it would suck, even if we weren't trying to be professional.

[FirstMeasure]

Unfortunately, Izzy, not very many upstarts think the way you do. So many of my early bands broke up because someone wasn't having fun 100% of the time. "It's like work" is the phrase I heard most as the slacker left the rehearsal space.

 

Yes, it's a little bit like work. But so is a serious softball team. Sometime you have to get up a 6am and take a stinky bus all the way to a neighboring town for a tournament. Then get knocked out of the first tier and see how many softball players quit because it's "Not fun anymore". Not one! Not one softball player would quit because they have to practice harder, or because it's too much like homework, or work. And not one softball player would pass up a chance to play pro hardball simply because it's not as much fun as playing amateur sports.

 

I can understand a guy that has a really good job that takes up most of his time wanting to be in a band that's just for fun, but youngsters that are trying to break into the very competitive field of music had better be ready and willing to work hard, both on their instrument and on their business skills. The best will learn how to get serious without losing that passion and fun.

 

I also believe that the older you get, fun becomes less important than gratification. Leaving at 5pm to get to get to a gig that's an hour and a half away, loading and unloading several hundred pounds of gear, setting up and breaking down that gear, then driving home and hopefully getting home before 4am is not fun. However, a job well done and a successful gig is more gratifying that all the roller coasters you could ride. And the 4-5 hours of playing is always a lot of fun!

[stein]

And, I have as much "work" as I want in the music industry as I desire......Why ???? Because I approach it from a business point of view.......

 

It is not my priority at all though...........Kinda a been there done that thingee.........I like it that way...........

A minus? really?

 

If I didn't know better I would think you have an ex- "something" lurking around. But I know better.

[stein]

I kinda like where this thread is going.

 

I can say from my own experience, there IS something called "work" involved. Even if you are doing it for fun, there are the times and the hours when you have to buckle down and learn your parts, learn the tunes, or when you are getting your gear ready.

 

When it comes to the "business" aspect of it, sure, there are things like booking gigs or contracts that most poeple associate with the word, but "business" means more than that. Often times, it comes down to knowing your role, or delivering on an expectation. And that can apply to only the music aspects of it. That is, even just PLAYING something can be something that comes down to what you agree is expected and agreed to. I think for MOST musicians, knowing you are holding down your end and doing a good job of what is expected of you is something that makes you feel good about yourself. For sure, no one likes to think they are not doing a good job.

 

I think the "fun" label vs the "rewarding" label is a good point. I don't disagree one bit, and I problably resemble that remark. But I wonder how many are really just not used to the idea of work. I think as we get older and accept that life is actually hard, or involves something called "work" the majority of the time, what some call work another might call leisure time.

[jaxson50]

Try playing sober! Record rehearsals, measure improvements, set goals with a time frame, it's a cover band not a marriage.

[kaleb]

What you say is true to a point, but all the passion and brotherhood in the world will not get your band a gig. And without a gig, music is only played to the windows in your home. The windows in your home will not put you on the radio, nor will your friends and furniture help you pay for drum skins when your drummer needs them, or a new amp when you find a buzz has developed after hours of practice. Nor will a talent agent or manager take your project seriously if you've only played to your windows and furniture.

 

Passion and vision are useless if one does not posses the skill to produce the end product of that vision. You'll have a passionately rendered lump of cacophony.

 

Talent alone can come off a sterile, but passion alone will not come off at all.

 

Couldn't have said it better. It really boggles me when people say, "This band (Rush for example) isn't in it for the money.". Of course they're in it for the money! Sure, fame, money, and chicks aren't the reason(s) I play, but I know that every musician that gets paid to play is automatically in it for the money. Otherwise, we'd be giving benefit concerts!

 

However, when money is more important than music (like what happened to KISS), then you have a problem. But a good business sense is important to be a serious musician. A bad business sense will either get you nowhere or kill you if you're already at the top (Ace Frehley in the 90s).

 

Unfortunately, there's one-too-many scumbag managers out there. All they want is YOUR earnings, and they could care less about the music you make or your fans. They just want to screw you. (this happened to Ace, as well as Michael Schenker. And countless others)

 

Dedication, smarts, business sense, and having some sort of drive to be something is necessary. You have to be a bit of a hot-head sometimes, and a little propaganda won't hurt. It's pretty much a 50-50. The things I just mentioned, plus the creativity, passion, talent, and unconditional love for music (the other half) fills the 100%.

 

You can be the crappiest guitar player ever yet still have amazing passion.

[milod]

There are a number of different sorts of rewards for playing music.

 

I've been in a number of life situations in which different rewards were given priority.

 

One problem, though, if one wishes an audience either paid or unpaid, is to match the book to the audience. I think attempting to force an audience into appreciating the book is a lost cause. That doesn't mean that there's no place for original material - just that if an audience's expectation is for some traditional and well known rock songs from the '50s and '60s, it's most likely counterproductive to do originals in the style of current country - or polkas or whatever.

 

These are decisions a given musician and a given band must make. If you've a huge book covering many styles of music, you still will tailor the performance to an audience to be "successful."

 

m

[FirstMeasure]

Try playing sober! Record rehearsals, measure improvements, set goals with a time frame, it's a cover band not a marriage.

Great suggestion, and one that's often overlooked. Party time is party time, rehearsal time is for rehearsal. No friends and no alcohol!

 

Couldn't have said it better. It really boggles me when people say, "This band (Rush for example) isn't in it for the money.". Of course they're in it for the money! Sure, fame, money, and chicks aren't the reason(s) I play, but I know that every musician that gets paid to play is automatically in it for the money. Otherwise, we'd be giving benefit concerts!

 

However, when money is more important than music (like what happened to KISS), then you have a problem. But a good business sense is important to be a serious musician. A bad business sense will either get you nowhere or kill you if you're already at the top (Ace Frehley in the 90s).

 

Unfortunately, there's one-too-many scumbag managers out there. All they want is YOUR earnings, and they could care less about the music you make or your fans. They just want to screw you. (this happened to Ace, as well as Michael Schenker. And countless others)

 

Dedication, smarts, business sense, and having some sort of drive to be something is necessary. You have to be a bit of a hot-head sometimes, and a little propaganda won't hurt. It's pretty much a 50-50. The things I just mentioned, plus the creativity, passion, talent, and unconditional love for music (the other half) fills the 100%.

 

You can be the crappiest guitar player ever yet still have amazing passion.

I like the Hot-head comment. When you're trying to get your friends to practice instead of party they call you a heavy handed task manager and things can heat up. When everyone is there to make the project work no one is tasking anyone and "Instruction" is taken as "Suggestion" or simply as what needs to be done. Not what I told you to do. (that's the problem I had with my last two drummers )

 

There are a number of different sorts of rewards for playing music.

 

I've been in a number of life situations in which different rewards were given priority.

 

One problem, though, if one wishes an audience either paid or unpaid, is to match the book to the audience. I think attempting to force an audience into appreciating the book is a lost cause. That doesn't mean that there's no place for original material - just that if an audience's expectation is for some traditional and well known rock songs from the '50s and '60s, it's most likely counterproductive to do originals in the style of current country - or polkas or whatever.

 

These are decisions a given musician and a given band must make. If you've a huge book covering many styles of music, you still will tailor the performance to an audience to be "successful."

 

m

I've been in situations with my cover band where the audience kept asking for originals, and we hadn't begun writing as a group yet (in fact we're still kinda stalled on that). They listened to us and appreciated the show, but there was definitely disappointment in the air. Knowing your audience is paramount!