ScaryLarry Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hi I have a 3 month old J-45 Custom that I love and WAS in excellent shape until a few moments ago! I had a small Korg electronic tuner on my knees in front of the guitar tuning it, when the tuner almost fell, and in catching it, it rubbed on the bottom front of the bout which resulted in an incredibly deep circular scratch on an otherwise pristine guitar. I have a 40 year old B-25 that has plenty of scratches, but none this deep. So I am wondering if it is deep because of the finish not having enough time to cure. Is there some way of fixing this without refinishing the entire guitar? If not, do you know what it would cost to refinish it? TIA, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I had a two inch + top crack repaired in my J-45, and the luthier did a refinish in just that spot - so well that you cannot even find where it was anymore. He is in Colorado. Is your scratch on the side or the top? If you can't see it "from the driver's side", I'd consider just leaving it until you find an experienced well qualified luthier. I had some other work done so hard to tell what that particular repair cost me, custom modified new bone saddle, total setup, fixing this crack, diagnosing and fixing an issue with the pickup jack, all came to $240. Here's what the crack looked like, and I'd post an "after" shot, but truly I cannot even find where it was anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 I had a two inch + top crack repaired in my J-45, and the luthier did a refinish in just that spot - so well that you cannot even find where it was anymore. He is in Colorado. Is your scratch on the side or the top? If you can't see it "from the driver's side", I'd consider just leaving it until you find an experienced well qualified luthier. I had some other work done so hard to tell what that particular repair cost me, custom modified new bone saddle, total setup, fixing this crack, diagnosing and fixing an issue with the pickup jack, all came to $240. Here's what the crack looked like, and I'd post an "after" shot, but truly I cannot even find where it was anymore. Interesting - thanks for the info. I may look around for a good luthier. Was the crack caused by low humidity? I keep my acoustic guitars around 50% humidity as it is pretty dry here. I am hoping that someone can simply fill the crease vs. having to refinish the entire guitar. Regards, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Crack was probably the result of playing in hot direct sunlight one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Is there some way of fixing this without refinishing the entire guitar? If not, do you know what it would cost to refinish it? Hi Larry Bummer,, but no worries! I've been here, I had some misfortunes recently and had some similar damage to a few acoustics (an MR nylon and a Taylor - very hard to find a guy that can do Taylor finish repair correctly) I managed to find someone to work on both, the guy who did the Taylor hit it out of the park. A different guy did the Nylon but he shy'd away from the Taylor due to the finish material. I would think Gibson finishes are probably less difficult to work with. The should be able to drop and fill and buff. If it's Nitro, it's probably repairable without a refinish. So here's what I would do.. Look for a few luthiers in your area, call and ask if they do finish repairs on Gibson acoustics. Get an email address from them. (even better if you can get any reviews on them, just get an idea what other people have to say about the experience.) Take a few good close up photos, (a cell phone camera may not have the resolution you need. I used my DSLR with a macro lens). By placing a dime or a nickel next to the area when you take the photo they can get an idea on scale of the area they will need to repair. Send them these photos, and ask if they can do it, and what the ball park cost will be. From the photos they should be able to get an idea on what the job requires, and probably give you an estimate. A picture would help me swag what the cost would be, but I'm guessing if it's not a large area, it's probably 50 to 100 bucks, (both of my finish repairs were around 50 bucks, small areas mind you.) I have no idea your location, but if your anywhere nearby Winchester Mass. let me know. I have a contact for you. Let us know how you make out, and good luck. /KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Hi KB Thanks for the info. I will take some close up pics when I get home tomorrow with my macro lens as you suggest and post one and also look around for a luthier close to me if any. I live in Angels Camp, California, and don't know of any in the area, but will check the surrounding cities, like Sacramento or the Bay Area. I did contact Gibson support and they suggested a luthier in San Francisco, but he called me and said he could not fix a Gibson. I would like to know a good luthier anyhow. Regards, SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I had a Les Paul Pro deluxe around 1970. I got it home and dropped a plug on it and chipped it behind the bridge. It was a black guitar and it chipped to the wood. I took it to my luthier and when I got it back you couldn't see where the chip had been. So, I'd say yes. It can be repaired. I've just noticed. That's it in my avatar pic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 At least you got a little help.....! I just scratched my 58 year-old arse .....and nobody gives a damn.... Just being silly, of course! I hope that you get satisfactory results from the repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 I had a Les Paul Pro deluxe around 1970. I got it home and dropped a plug on it and chipped it behind the bridge. It was a black guitar and it chipped to the wood. I took it to my luthier and when I got it back you couldn't see where the chip had been. So, I'd say yes. It can be repaired. I've just noticed. That's it in my avatar pic! Interesting - I just spoke to a luthier and he was going to use superglue. Once he heard that it has a sunburst finish, he did not want to work on it. I might have to give GIbson repair a call but the last time I got a quote from them it was for about double the value of the guitar. Regards, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Interesting - I just spoke to a luthier and he was going to use superglue. Once he heard that it has a sunburst finish, he did not want to work on it. I might have to give GIbson repair a call but the last time I got a quote from them it was for about double the value of the guitar. Regards, Larry SUPERGLUE?!?! Oh, hell no. NEVER use superglue as a "repair" to an acoustic top, either as a finish or a crack. Superglue dries hard and fast, but it continues to cure until it is so brittle it eventually crumbles. And as it is a thin liquid, it gets into the pores of the wood. Is he an actual "luthier"? The one advantage to the Nirto finish on a Gibson is that you can layer new nitro over it and it will bond. It is a permanantly workable finish even after it cures. You SHOULD be able to find someone skilled that can do the job without too much expence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 At least you got a little help.....! I just scratched my 58 year-old arse .....and nobody gives a damn.... Just being silly, of course! I hope that you get satisfactory results from the repair Lol! That would feel infinitely better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 SUPERGLUE?!?! Oh, hell no. NEVER use superglue as a "repair" to an acoustic top, either as a finish or a crack. Superglue dries hard and fast, but it continues to cure until it is so brittle it eventually crumbles. And as it is a thin liquid, it gets into the pores of the wood. Is he an actual "luthier"? The one advantage to the Nirto finish on a Gibson is that you can layer new nitro over it and it will bond. It is a permanantly workable finish even after it cures. You SHOULD be able to find someone skilled that can do the job without too much expence. I would definitely agree! Never use superglue! And yes, he is a luthier and presumably gives guitar making classes which I was planning on attending but not now. Yes, nitro seems to have a few good attributes. I like the fact that it is typically a very light finish, which has to allow the guitar to vibrate better. I am a bamboo fly rod maker, so I deal with all types of varnishes but never Nitro as I have to worry about UV and of course moisture, and I have fixed many dings and scratches so I might just attempt to fix the scratch as I am sure I will have others in the future, and I have two Nitro finished guitars. I just wish I had a practice piece to try first. SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I would definitely agree! Never use superglue! And yes, he is a luthier and presumably gives guitar making classes which I was planning on attending but not now. Yes, nitro seems to have a few good attributes. I like the fact that it is typically a very light finish, which has to allow the guitar to vibrate better. I am a bamboo fly rod maker, so I deal with all types of varnishes but never Nitro as I have to worry about UV and of course moisture, and I have fixed many dings and scratches so I might just attempt to fix the scratch as I am sure I will have others in the future, and I have two Nitro finished guitars. I just wish I had a practice piece to try first. SL Well, I know it sounds crazy, but superglue is not quite as uncommon as you would think Larry, it largely depends on the finish that needs to be repaired. For Nitro, I wouldn't "think" that would be a good match for a finish repair, but for Taylor finish repairs, which is a water base UV finish (very thin, VERY hard) it's exactly what works the best for small cosmetic drop and fills. And it's not as cut and dry as you would think. The material will come in different a varying array viscosities, knowing which one to use and when to use it is the magic. Once the final buff out was done, it virtually made my finish damage vanish. I will try to post some photos today to give an example. I was stunned it came out as good as it did. Of course, most of the success was due to the skilled hands that I entrusted the repair to. /KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 A good luthier can probably drop-fill this and buff it out so that it disappears completely. I've had this done several times, with excellent results. In fact, I'm taking my SJ in for a similar touch-up when I get home next week. PM onewilyfool, who is a member here who lives in the South Bay area. He has had a far amount of work done in the San Francisco area on some of his guitars, and may be able to point you to the right person. This type of touch-up isn't rocket science, but it does take someone who knows what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 A good luthier can probably drop-fill this and buff it out so that it disappears completely. I've had this done several times, with excellent results. In fact, I'm taking my SJ in for a similar touch-up when I get home next week. PM onewilyfool, who is a member here who lives in the South Bay area. He has had a far amount of work done in the San Francisco area on some of his guitars, and may be able to point you to the right person. This type of touch-up isn't rocket science, but it does take someone who knows what he is doing. Hi j4Nick Thanks for the info. I will try to contact onewilyfool for contact info. I am not that far from SF. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 My tech has dones some great repairs to poly finishes using superglue, so it can be a practical fix in some situations, but not necessary or advisable with nitro. This article is a good demonstration of someone carrying out drop fill on a nitro finish: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Finish/Lacquer/DropFill/dropfill.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Sorry, took a while to get to this, as I was walking in my living room, guitar in hand, the edge of our coffee table jumped out and took a bite out of my (up till then immaculately pristine) Taylor GS. Oh the humanity! (I haven't removed the coffee table yet, but it's on notice,, does that again, and it's out-a here.) the damage to the side bout, first photo This is after the repair, picture angle is a bit further back then the 1st photo. Note small black arrow I put in with Paint - pointing to the center area of the damage Repair was done with at least two different viscosities of Superglue (or, --- Cyanoacrylate ) and some buffing after it was allowed to cure and the results were highly favorable. Because the ding crushed the wood fibers, there remains a very small noticeable area where the finish is a little lighter around those parts where the fibers were smashed. Pretty clear to see with the right know-how, depending in the material used for the finish, Superglue works quite well for drop and fills. The repair was 45 bucks, the piece of mind that it's repaired like this, priceless. Had I sent this back to Taylor, the shipping would have been at least twice what the local repair cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryLarry Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Sorry, took a while to get to this, as I was walking in my living room, guitar in hand, the edge of our coffee table jumped out and took a bite out of my (up till then immaculately pristine) Taylor GS. Oh the humanity! (I haven't removed the coffee table yet, but it's on notice,, does that again, and it's out-a here.) the damage to the side bout, first photo This is after the repair, picture angle is a bit further back then the 1st photo. Note small black arrow I put in with Paint - pointing to the center area of the damage Repair was done with at least two different viscosities of Superglue (or, --- Cyanoacrylate ) and some buffing after it was allowed to cure and the results were highly favorable. Because the ding crushed the wood fibers, there remains a very small noticeable area where the finish is a little lighter around those parts where the fibers were smashed. Pretty clear to see with the right know-how, depending in the material used for the finish, Superglue works quite well for drop and fills. The repair was 45 bucks, the piece of mind that it's repaired like this, priceless. Had I sent this back to Taylor, the shipping would have been at least twice what the local repair cost. Good price and nice fix. I think I am going to attempt to fix my scratch first. I have the necessary tools etc. I hope I don't make it worse! Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi I have a 3 month old J-45 Custom that I love and WAS in excellent shape until a few moments ago! I had a small Korg electronic tuner on my knees in front of the guitar tuning it, when the tuner almost fell, and in catching it, it rubbed on the bottom front of the bout which resulted in an incredibly deep circular scratch on an otherwise pristine guitar. I have a 40 year old B-25 that has plenty of scratches, but none this deep. So I am wondering if it is deep because of the finish not having enough time to cure. Is there some way of fixing this without refinishing the entire guitar? If not, do you know what it would cost to refinish it? TIA, Larry If You keep this **** up, we will start calling you ScarryLarry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Timber Owls Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Here is a link to all the nay-sayers of superglue! http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0174.html But yes, as mentioned above, it does not work with all finishes. I recently repaired a J-45 that had it's lacquer on the headstock set on fire. I had to take it all off to make it blend nicely. Depending on the size and shape and location of the problem, it is possible to make a seamless repair to the lacquer, but you have to use nitrocellulose lacquer on it, as adding different types of lacquer together ultimately lead to adhesion and blending problems. The only other downside, is lacquer has a long cure time (at least 5-7 days of drying after all coats are done). But drop-filling can be done with it. You would just add some lacquer to the area, being sure to tape off a lot of the guitar with low-tack tap to protect from overspray. You have to build it up until it is slightly over the surrounding non-dented areas. Then once you have that done, you wait for the lacquer to dry and cure completely (at least 5 days, but closer to 7) and then you can sand it down with micromesh sandpaper. Micromesh is a bit costly, but gets way finer than any sandpaper, and is the only way to make a scratch-free shine. Then buff and polish it out, and it should look as good as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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