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Oh, I was there all right - but as a listener until my high school senior year and a rock/jazz band in '62-63.

 

It's a great show to watch, but really, it's only a fraction of the story.

 

It leaves out Doowop. It leaves out instrumentals ranging from the relatively tame as in Duane Eddy to the darkly rebellious Rumble with Link Wray pretty much introducing intentional distortion to guitar. It leaves out novelty songs and ballads by both black and white singers. It leaves out the "death" songs. It leaves out everything but what makes a given case.

 

Actually in the U.S. black and white music had been combining for ages - since black people and white people had been living next door to each other for ages. Ragtime is an early example in the pre-radio era. Early recording and radio era "country" music reflects more than a little of that. The old "race" records are ignored, too. Swing didn't come from entirely lily white musical tradition, either - whether played by black or white bands.

 

I do think that there is a decent case to be made with the 1950s "teen rebellion" in an odd juxtaposition of kids having more money, yet big bands dying off because they were too expensive. The smaller combo needed "something" to get people dancing. Country got a jazz/pop edge. Civil rights issues emerged as thousands of black servicemen and families figured they had rights - and Harry Truman integrated the military.

 

It was an interesting time - perhaps in ways the most creative time seen in America and probably rivaled only by the post "civil war" era of exploding technology. I remember listening in school to a wind-up phonograph in the mid '50s, but by '61 the transistor radio was there for us and fit into a pocket. The gravel and mud streets were paved in small towns; bands got PA systems and bigger guitar amps.

 

I came home from elementary school to listen to the radio as my Dad had done; my little sister and brother only remember coming home to watch television and such as the Mickey Mouse Club. I've gotta admit I was even a bit jealous as I left my "little kid playing with toys" age that my brother at 7 or 8 had far more and fancier toys than were available when I was that age.

 

<sigh> "We" tended to be our own individual versions of "Rebel without a Cause" as we watched the younger Baby Boomers follow us with stuff we never imagined having - and seeming to have more of a death wish than any of "us" had, even including such as James Dean and the uncounted guys wearing black denim trousers as "Terrors of Highway 101" or gangs banding in cities to defend neighborhood turf and "rumble" as only overgrown children could do.

 

Oddly I think sometimes that "we" ain't changed all that much, either.

 

It truly was an interesting time that drew us all from the depression and WWII into a world that would have some 40 years of life before the Internet and microchipped portable telephones reeeeally changed things.

 

m

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I almost posted this great video the other day. Glad you did Rabs.

 

I think there may be some young'uns on this forum that should see where it it all started. Rock is one of the few art forms where the new players don't know or respect what came before. Learn the rules and the form then break every rule to come up with something new. It gets harder and harder as the years go by.

 

Thanks for posting this mt friend.

 

Oh and seeing Buddy Holly playing a Strat really brings out how radical that guitar was compared to what everyone else was using.

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I almost posted this great video the other day. Glad you did Rabs.

 

I think there may be some young'uns on this forum that should see where it it all started. Rock is one of the few art forms where the new players don't know or respect what came before. Learn the rules and the form then break every rule to come up with something new. It gets harder and harder as the years go by.

 

Thanks for posting this mt friend.

 

Oh and seeing Buddy Holly playing a Strat really brings out how radical that guitar was compared to what everyone else was using.

Always a pleasure :) [thumbup]

 

You may like this one too.. About a couple that go on the search for unrecognised talent and ended up setting up a foundation to help them get gigs and record and stuff

 

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Milod... your story and mine are nearly the same. I graduated in '63, started playing guitar in '57. Watched the same tv shows and listened to the same hits on the radio. You are correct on all counts of the aspects of early rock...we should know... we were there and lived it. Exciting times!!!

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If one hits "Muleskinner Blues" on the Wikipedia, one might discover that perhaps "rock" could be dated at least to the Jimmie Rodgers 1930 recording, if not bits of it in an earlier "black" version.

 

I think that particular piece is a marvelous example how a given bit of music intertwines various "black" and "white" music into whatever you want to call it or categorize it. The same song has been "Blues," "Rock," "Country" and "Bluegrass." It's probably been done as swing and jazz more times than one might imagine. No walls really stopped American cross-cultural musical influences.

 

The '50s certainly accelerated the trend, but it had been there for at least 50-60 years prior.

 

In ways I almost wonder if it might be more interesting to consider urban vs. rural music trends than per se "black" and "white." Yes, there was technical segregation everywhere, but to assume no overlap in music is condescending to everyone involved in the development of peculiarly "American" music. Yes, some black and white "folk" musicians were illiterate rustics; others such as Handy and Joplin and a whole generation of Tin Pan Alley writers and song demonstration artists were pretty skilled and trained musicians.

 

For what it's worth, there also has been at minimum flavoring from various Latin traditions, definitely traditions from the British Isles and even a bit of French in "our" music.

 

Nowadays it's truly become the world's music. In ways, technology is adding even more flavors to what began in an interesting American musical stew.

 

m

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If one hits "Muleskinner Blues" on the Wikipedia, one might discover that perhaps "rock" could be dated at least to the Jimmie Rodgers 1930 recording, if not bits of it in an earlier "black" version.

 

I think that particular piece is a marvelous example how a given bit of music intertwines various "black" and "white" music into whatever you want to call it or categorize it. The same song has been "Blues," "Rock," "Country" and "Bluegrass." It's probably been done as swing and jazz more times than one might imagine. No walls really stopped American cross-cultural musical influences.

 

The '50s certainly accelerated the trend, but it had been there for at least 50-60 years prior.

 

In ways I almost wonder if it might be more interesting to consider urban vs. rural music trends than per se "black" and "white." Yes, there was technical segregation everywhere, but to assume no overlap in music is condescending to everyone involved in the development of peculiarly "American" music. Yes, some black and white "folk" musicians were illiterate rustics; others such as Handy and Joplin and a whole generation of Tin Pan Alley writers and song demonstration artists were pretty skilled and trained musicians.

 

For what it's worth, there also has been at minimum flavoring from various Latin traditions, definitely traditions from the British Isles and even a bit of French in "our" music.

 

Nowadays it's truly become the world's music. In ways, technology is adding even more flavors to what began in an interesting American musical stew.

 

m

 

 

Rufus Payne once said " that country music ain't nothing but white people's blues". For those who don't know, Rufus was a old black gentleman who taught hank Williams to play the guitar when he was a boy. I suppose Rufus was right about that, and rock and roll too most likely.

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No argument here, really.

 

I think city folks who have tended to live in very segregated neighborhoods all over the place, north, south, east and west, don't get it how rural southern folks, especially the poor ones, were a lot closer to each other.

 

In fact, a white friend in Memphis used to tell me what it was like to be considered a little "whaht trash" kid as a child - and wasn't allowed in small town stores even in segregation days when black folks of respect were allowed in...

 

Kinda interesting, I thought. I've a hunch Elvis and Johnny Cash experienced somewhat similar experiences.

 

m

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Its an age old question that is hard to answer with out asking questions about specific thing's.

 

You mean the first song with "Rock and Roll" in the word's or title?

 

Or do you mean the music it self?

 

Or do you mean the first hit Rock and Roll recording?

 

 

You could say that Ike Turner was the first guy to record a Fender Strat with a distorted sound, the solid bodies of the new Fender's of the early 1950's gave that opportunity for "sound".

 

Turner also said that the song "Rocket 88" first done in 1953 with a band he was working with at the time was the first song with the term "Rock'n & Roll'n" in the word's. This was slang that many young black people used to describe a girl and boy making out in the back of car.

 

The Rocket 88 was also the name of the new hi horsepower Buick engine's in the early 1950's as well so the song was about a woman "revving up" a mans "motor" with the throw's of passion. It's likely Ike was using the distorted sound in the song to emulate the car's hoped-up engine and a couple's heart's pumping in over-drive for there love of each other.

 

As for the first Rock & Roll hit song, that would be Bill Haily's cleaned up version of "Rock Around the Clock", witch talks about harmless dancing instead of screwing in car's, this toon was released in 1955.

 

I believe the main dis-concern with Rock and Roll in the 1950's was more about parent's wanting to keep there kid's from engaging in sexual activities than the music or the emerging technology's itself.

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I dunno....

 

In the lily-white boonies, the only objections I heard from all ages is that so much of the material wasn't really musical. Race wasn't seen as part of that as Nat Cole's show was available and popular in the early tv days and even my grandparents born in the 19th century liked some of the Basie and Ellington material - although they thought some of Harry James' material was a bit wild.

 

I'd agree in a sense that a lotta the "rock-pop" stuff in the '50s was of questionable musicality in comparison to earlier material - although County tended to go the other way with more complex arrangements and, functionally, jazz progressions and approach. Face it, "Peggy Sue" didn't exactly have a complex guitar lead.

 

I think younger folks often forget that well into the '50s a lot of church, organization and other social events had live music that tended to include updated material from the 1860s and '70s as well as more modern stuff. That seemed largely to have disappeared in the '60s, though.

 

One of the things I saw in the '70s was a lot of music retrospective material running up to the US Bicentennial - but it was seen something as a "gee, those odd old days and strange people who still play that old and often immigrant music..."

 

Urban communities I discovered in the '60s were more affected by a more cultural concern with rock as they were where there were civil rights struggles and riots, small scale nastiness as well as large scale. "Nice" music from Louis Armstrong and Basie who hadn't been seen as making cultural waves (although they were), was okay, but this loose-hipped stuff was going too far...

 

<grin>

 

m

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I dunno....

 

In the lily-white boonies, the only objections I heard from all ages is that so much of the material wasn't really musical. Race wasn't seen as part of that as Nat Cole's show was available and popular in the early tv days and even my grandparents born in the 19th century liked some of the Basie and Ellington material - although they thought some of Harry James' material was a bit wild.

 

I'd agree in a sense that a lotta the "rock-pop" stuff in the '50s was of questionable musicality in comparison to earlier material - although County tended to go the other way with more complex arrangements and, functionally, jazz progressions and approach. Face it, "Peggy Sue" didn't exactly have a complex guitar lead.

 

I think younger folks often forget that well into the '50s a lot of church, organization and other social events had live music that tended to include updated material from the 1860s and '70s as well as more modern stuff. That seemed largely to have disappeared in the '60s, though.

 

One of the things I saw in the '70s was a lot of music retrospective material running up to the US Bicentennial - but it was seen something as a "gee, those odd old days and strange people who still play that old and often immigrant music..."

 

Urban communities I discovered in the '60s were more affected by a more cultural concern with rock as they were where there were civil rights struggles and riots, small scale nastiness as well as large scale. "Nice" music from Louis Armstrong and Basie who hadn't been seen as making cultural waves (although they were), was okay, but this loose-hipped stuff was going too far...

 

<grin>

 

m

For sure Milod, you remember the throw back to the 1950's that was raging in the mid 1970's? I do, this was my early tween years as well so there was a lot of influence with the music that was being re-cycled then. This was also the time of re-run's getting to be popular on TV's across the US.

Kinda makes ya think don't it, I also had older sibling's so I was exposed to the late 50's and 60's stuff along with the super disco and album rock that was around then as well.

The civil action in those day's was also given the spot light as many of the star's of the 1950's music where all black group's. Of course many of these entertainer's where just that and didn't like the politics's side of it and where content with having there love of music fulfilled.

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Actually...

 

In the '70s I started heavy in country with nice regular "house band" gigs, then extra work and the lead-up to the Bicentennial that made more work for me in the office - and the "old time fiddlers" thing offered more variation in music than you might imagine.

 

But you've also gotta figure that a lot of the "race" thing simply wasn't here in the '70s. We always used to joke in those years that we had two races, Indins and Nonindins.

 

Bottom line - some stuff happened, but not at all like in urban environments.

 

In one area of the state, in the '70s, a "Mixed Marriage" was a Norwegian Lutheran guy marrying a girl that went to the same church, but was a Dane. That's a joke, but... it also in the '50s through the '70s brought some small clash of culture.

 

In my own case, truly, I think a bit of childhood travel was enough to conclude that a SOB is a SOB regardless of race, creed, color, ethnicity or religion. Nowadays I'd add "sexual preferences." Most folks are half decent regardless. Some will have personalities that fit into friendships. Some don't.

 

Musicians and cowboy culture both tend toward looking at how one does the work and can work alone or together with others. So... I guess one might say I'm happily in both camps.

 

OTOH, I'm also rebellious to figure that I don't care much for an SOB regardless of his or her background. I just plain don't care much for folks who are so inward that they seem to enjoy being nasty to other folks. Politics today suggest you should be more accepting of this or that group - but I don't go along with making excuses for those who go past ignoring their neighbor and into being nasty or hurtful.

 

I guess I'm old fashioned. It probably shows in how I play music, too.

 

m

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