Views on L4 CES

[AlanC]

I'm thinking about buying a relatively new Gibson L4. I play more in a jazz style than anything else. Any views on what they are like compared to other Gibson archtops?

[Robin Nahum]

Alan,

 

As I am sure you are aware, the L4 is the carved top version of the ES175 - which has a laminated (ply) top and back. This means that the L4 will be a bit more prone to feedback - which is not a problem if you don't play too loud and/or keep some distance from the amp.

 

On the other hand, other things being equal, it is likely to have a mellower tone and it certainly has smarter appointments.

 

The other common Gibson full-body carved tops are the L5, Super 400, Johnny Smith/Super V/LeGrand and the Byrdland (thinner body). The L4 is by far the least expensive of the four. (I suspect it may have a laminate back.)

 

I have tried a few L4s, including one that George Golla (one of Australia's premier jazzers) had for sale. I was not that keen on the ones I tried but who knows what would have happened with a bit of tweaking - although it turned out that George wasn't either when I met him a year later - which is why he was selling it. Couldn't bond. A jazzer friend has also cautioned somewhat cryptically about L4s, saying that some are okay, others not so okay.

 

The only person I have seen playing one in Sydney is Jim Pennell (sp?). Most other folk play laminates - 165s/175s or Thinlines. Whether this is because jazzers are broke or cautious or just don't see the added value, I couldn't say.

 

I should also say that I've tried the other carved tops from time to time but have not been persuaded to forego my ES345.

 

I think, as always, that it is a matter of trusting your ears and fingers - and giving the candidate a good looking over to check build quality.

 

Looking at your lineup, I presume you are looking for a carved top that you feel less nervous about gigging out with. Unless you are particularly keen to own an L4, I would A/B the L4 with the 165 and see whether the value is there.

 

RN

[L5Larry]

Looking at the archtop listing in your signature, looks to me like you have the archtop catagory covered very well. I don't see what you would be gaining by adding an L-4 to the list.

 

IF you think your missing something in from the Gibson archtop line, I would look into a full acoustic. My L-7 with a custom pickguard mounted "floating" pickup perfectly compliments my L-5CES. The plugged-in sound is very different, while retaining 100% of it's acoustic properties for mic'd recording, or just sitting around the campfire with a bunch of flattop players.

 

In fact plugged or unplugged, I play my L-7 for "sound" and my L-5 for "show".

[JazzGtr]

Alan,

 

Beware of the dark side with archtops. The lust for that huge mellow tone is addicting. I started with a solid maple top 335. Then I found out that I needed more "Wes" in my tone for those octaves and I purchased a 175. It gave me the deep tone but was too bright for my taste. Eventually, I purchased the Custom L5, Wes Montgomery and it satisfied that mellow tone I was looking for.

 

I'm impressed with your current collections. Some of which I have owned in the past as well. If you really think you are missing a particular jazz tone, check out Nick Colionne, "Keepin' iT Cool cd. He favors the L4(s).

[AlanC]

Thanks for your responses. Maybe I should explain my interest in the L4. Over the years I've played mostly rock and blues, some acoustic ragtime and every now and again I've tried to play jazz.

 

Over the last few years I've drifted much more into jazz. That explains why I've got a few solid bodies (as I bought them first and had them the longest) and over the last few years have purchased a few archtops. I play the Herb Ellis (ES 165) the most as I love its sound and I also like the fact that its scale length is 24.75 rather than 25.5 (from my old days of playing Les Pauls). That's why I thought about the L4 as its also a 24.75 as opposed to the L5 which is 25.5. I've got nothing against the L5 but given that I'm constantly pounding away on the Herb Ellis I thought that I might really enjoy the L4 and also it lets me give the Herbie a rest.

 

And 'JazzGtr', I do lust after the huge mellow tone and it is very addictive. In fact its taken me some time to sort out an amp that best suits that mellow sound for me. I don't play that loud and I've also started using flat wound strings which helped a lot. I'll chase down the Nick Colionne CD.

 

Thanks for your comments guys. Much appreciated. AlanC.

[Robin Nahum]

...I do lust after the huge mellow tone and it is very addictive. In fact its taken me some time to sort out an amp that best suits that mellow sound for me....

 

And was it a blackface or early silverface Pro Reverb?

 

RN

[AlanC]

I do own a Pro reverb but in fact I'm using a 12 inch Mesa Boogie Express 5:25. I find the Pro Reverb a bit heavy to lug around! Mesa's are really good, very versatile and the Expresses are quite lightweight.

[JazzGtr]

I used a pair of Fender Blues Jr.(s) with my L5. The stereo chorus, tremolo and reverb is to die for.