RowdyMoon Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 I mean come on...realy..for a quality made amp.....$2000 to $4500 depending on the amp...I mean, I know I am not the smartest, but holy crap can someone please show me where a $4000 price tag is justified?, hand made or not...crazy.
Blueblooded Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 It might help if you provide more specifics other than just ranting that you think that there is no justification for an amp to have a price tag in the $2000 to $4500 range. So, what's really bothering you?
Jeff-7 Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 People spend that on guitars all the time, I don't see why it's such a big deal to pay the same amount for a quality amp. It's just as important to your sound.
RowdyMoon Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 It might help if you provide more specifics other than just ranting that you think that there is no justification for an amp to have a price tag in the $2000 to $4500 range. So, what's really bothering you? No really..The price...I am no novice here and I understand quality , importance to sound etc..but really ..is each tube hand made with hours of labor?..really I am serious...is it labor intense to make? This is a legit question , what makes it worth that much? If you showed me that parts are expensive and that someone who is making $25 dollars an hour and it takes him 80 hours to make it then I can say oh that's why the high price tag.
RowdyMoon Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 People spend that on guitars all the time, I don't see why it's such a big deal to pay the same amount for a quality amp. It's just as important to your sound. I have seen the material and man hours to make a quality instrument so I don't question the price..it's worth it, but an amp? I am wondering what justifies the price.
stein Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 People spend that on guitars all the time, I don't see why it's such a big deal to pay the same amount for a quality amp. It's just as important to your sound. This is true. I often wonder how it is that some poeple have multiple, rather "expensive" or mid-range guitars, but spend far, far less on amps. Especially given that the difference between a cheaper amp and an "expensive" one are far greater that for guitars. I mean, when you plug into a great amp, it's pretty easy to hear the difference.
AXE® Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 If I can't pay too much for it I don't want it. And I'm not even the heir to a fortune.
CowboyBillyBob1 Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 No really..The price...I am no novice here and I understand quality , importance to sound etc..but really ..is each tube hand made with hours of labor?..really I am serious...is it labor intense to make? This is a legit question , what makes it worth that much? There are enough players that are willing to pay the price so they charge the amount that the market will bear. I bought a Fender DRRI for about $750 USD 5 years ago. It gets great reviews so now the price is almost $ 1100 USD.No way does it come close to over $300 to manufacture now than it did 5 years ago. Corporations must show organic growth.. have to make a better Gross Profit.
Tim Plains Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Ever heard the term "race to the bottom"? That seems to be your approach. If you don't want to pay insane prices, see if they'll ship production to China for you. The price tag is justified because the guy who lives in America and handwired that amp for you wants to live a decent life.
stein Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 OK, seriously then. For one, the transformers, PARTICULARLY the output transformer. It's expensive. When it comes to wanting a quality transformer, sinse no one is really 'mass producing' them for quality, it means they have to be custom ordered or custom built to a degree. It makes the already high cost higher when you want either a high quality one, or one made to a certain "vintage" spec. The same applies to electrical components. They are cheaper on the whole, but quality is less as well. So when it comes to the market for higher quality ones, they are more than they used to be. It does NOT take an hour to build an amp. If you had all the parts, and you knew EXACTLY what you were building and what went where, it might take you 4-5 hours to assemble it. Seriously, unless you are paying a guy peanuts to live in dirt, a man working for 8 hours and making a descent wage is going to cost about 400 bucks on wages, insurance(and taxes), benifits, and shop expenses. If you actually make and sell an amp for 1200 bucks, that is cheap. by the time it gets bought by a distributer or shop, the mark up is about twice. So, there you have a 2400 dollar amp.
Blueblooded Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 I have seen the material and man hours to make a quality instrument so I don't question the price..it's worth it, but an amp? I am wondering what justifies the price. No, I don't think you understand what it takes to build a "quality" electronic component. To do so, you have to be serious about and invest in R&D, purchase and use the best components, and have QC that is second to none. The best companies that do that are in the US and perhaps a few other great engineering nations like Germany and Switzerland. Japan and Korea have only really done well with copying, emulating and stealing what they can from the best. China is building pure crap - all as cheap as possible to build a middle class. Here is just a portion of what it takes to make sure you build a QUALITY Amp. They have more videos - suggest watching the one on building a circuit board too. I GUARANTEE you that no cheap Asian brand does much more than power up their crap before they box it and ship it.
Blueblooded Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 There are enough players that are willing to pay the price so they charge the amount that the market will bear. I bought a Fender DRRI for about $750 USD 5 years ago. It gets great reviews so now the price is almost $ 1100 USD.No way does it come close to over $300 to manufacture now than it did 5 years ago. Corporations must show organic growth.. have to make a better Gross Profit. Are you saying that you can't justify a $300 price increase in the last 5 years for what was a $750 amp 5 years ago. Well, if it's built in the US, consider the rise in raw materials, transportation(fuel), food, etc. over the last 5 years. There lies your justification.
stein Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Are you saying that you can't justify a $300 price increase in the last 5 years for what was a $750 amp 5 years ago. Well, if it's built in the US, consider the rise in raw materials, transportation(fuel), food, etc. over the last 5 years. There lies your justification. That's a great point. I think we tend to forget, but many raw materiels, and GAS prices, have increased quite a lot. It does have an effect. I'd say about 200 buck of that increase being materiel cost seems right to me.
RowdyMoon Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 Ever heard the term "race to the bottom"? That seems to be your approach. If you don't want to pay insane prices, see if they'll ship production to China for you. The price tag is justified because the guy who lives in America and handwired that amp for you wants to live a decent life. Read my post...never said I wanted crap , never said anything bad about "made in america"...just wanted to know why a $3000 dollar head cant cost maybe $2000 is all......I seam to have touched a nerve with this post lol
CowboyBillyBob1 Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Ever heard the term "race to the bottom"? That seems to be your approach. If you don't want to pay insane prices, see if they'll ship production to China for you. The price tag is justified because the guy who lives in America and handwired that amp for you wants to live a decent life. The DRRI is not handwired. That is definately a good justification for some boutique amps but for others no so valid. Still I see your overall point and am willing to pay the extra $$ for a Made In USA product but the corporate greed comes into it as well. "We grew 5% last year and only 5.5% this year which is less than the 6% our goal was. Sorry but no bonus this year and we will have to raise prices to meet our goal" I have worked for companies way larger than all the guitar companies put together and this is a reality.
Blueblooded Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Read my post...never said I wanted crap , never said anything bad about "made in america"...just wanted to know why a $3000 dollar head cant cost maybe $2000 is all......I seam to have touched a nerve with this post lol Yes, agree with what you said and asked. Unfortunately, the trend over the last 20 years is exactly for companies to take cost out of products and get that $3000 head to cost $2000. It has tended to end up as offshore labor, facilities, and parts. Oh, and quality is transparent if the product works. So the equation brings in the loss of jobs in America, and your neighbors and relatives lose their jobs... It goes on and on and on. The example of what Mesa does in their process is exactly why I used it as an example. Innovation and quality aren't cheap. Hope you watched it. By the way, I assume you play Gibson guitars. What amps do you have and if you could spend $2000+ on an amp, what would you choose?
CowboyBillyBob1 Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Innovation and quality aren't cheap. Hope you watched it. By the way, I assume you play Gibson guitars. What amps do you have and if you could spend $2000+ on an amp, what would you choose? I do play Gibson Guitars along with Fender and Martins (does not apply here as much). I am willing to pay for quality but don't want to feel I am being ripped off. I love Fender amps even though I do own Marshall as well. If I had $2k to spend it would most likely be a handwired Deluxe Reverb with NOS tubes and a quality Alnico speaker instead of the ceramic it comes with. I can justify the cost by the labor involved in making an amp like that not to mention a quality cabinet it comes in. Actually I can see how 2 grand would be a bargqin. Actually would probably cost almost twice as much. This is not your normal PCB amp which is much cheaper to manufacture. I do think $1100 is a bit much for a current DRRI but it is what it is. Overpriced I think but still in comparison a great amp so we pay the price.
Riffster Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 This is just another "why things don't cost what I want them to cost" rant. Here is my answer: The amplifier prices are justified because that is why some people are willing to pay for them, and they do, if they didn't then the amp gets cheaper and/or maybe goes out of production. Just like everything else. I am not sure waht you are looking at, but I bought my Mesa 5:25 head and cabinet with a UK speaker, new, made in California by Mesa for $1,500. Fantastic amplifier at a fantastic price.
ZenKen Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Ever heard the term "race to the bottom"? That seems to be your approach. If you don't want to pay insane prices, see if they'll ship production to China for you. The price tag is justified because the guy who lives in America and handwired that amp for you wants to live a decent life. Nuff said!
AXE® Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 So THAT'S why I get good prices on my amps. They're all made in Bletchley England. And all of my guitars were built in Podunk Tennessee.
EVOL! Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Are you saying that you can't justify a $300 price increase in the last 5 years for what was a $750 amp 5 years ago. Well, if it's built in the US, consider the rise in raw materials, transportation(fuel), food, etc. over the last 5 years. There lies your justification. The Fender DRRI hits a special nerve with me so I am going to rant. The current price tag for this amp is in NO WAY justified. I bought mine used back in 1998 for $350. It is American made. Not sure what they were going for new back then, but my guess is that it was a touch less than what CowboyBillyBob1 paid for his. The new ones are made in Mexico. Labor wise this amp probably costs two thirds less to manufacture, yet Fender feels justified jacking up the price. Ha, ha! They started doing this with a lot of their guitars too: build them in Mexico, but price them like they're USA made. Fender can take a long walk off a short pier.
Pin Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 No really..The price...I am no novice here and I understand quality , importance to sound etc..but really ..is each tube hand made with hours of labor?..really I am serious...is it labor intense to make? This is a legit question , what makes it worth that much? The Market...pure and simple. It is like my thread on the £100,000 Les Paul. I think it is a fantastic looking guitar but personally I just wouldn't pay that money even if I were a millionaire. Others might - while there is a chance someone will pay an outrageous price then the price will be set as it is. If amp manufacturers didn't get customers for their wares they have the choice of lowering prices or going out of business. It really is as simple as that.
RowdyMoon Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 Yes, agree with what you said and asked. Unfortunately, the trend over the last 20 years is exactly for companies to take cost out of products and get that $3000 head to cost $2000. It has tended to end up as offshore labor, facilities, and parts. Oh, and quality is transparent if the product works. So the equation brings in the loss of jobs in America, and your neighbors and relatives lose their jobs... It goes on and on and on. The example of what Mesa does in their process is exactly why I used it as an example. Innovation and quality aren't cheap. Hope you watched it. By the way, I assume you play Gibson guitars. What amps do you have and if you could spend $2000+ on an amp, what would you choose? Love Gibson guitars and I own a couple of them...I have had others but you sell some to fund others based on budget...now I am loving and feel comfortable with where I am at guitar wise...curently I am using a Traynor YCS50H 50 watt head with 2 single 12 orange cabs....when my budget allows it has come down to 3 choices for me...1) Orange thunderverb 50 (England $2300 ) 2) Orange TH100 (china $1600) or 3) Reeves custom 50 (USA $2000)....Leaning towards the Reeves to be honest....It will cost me about $3000 by the time I do Canadian currency exchange, duty and then shipping. I have inquired and Reeves has quoted around $170 for shipping
RowdyMoon Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 The Market...pure and simple. If amp manufacturers didn't get customers for their wares they have the choice of lowering prices or going out of business. It really is as simple as that. No, that's when they start to make 1) cheap tube amps or 2 ) cheap solid state amps.
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