Crappy Nut on USA SG Special - what can I do?

[pb3000]

I have a brand new 2012 SG Special in Heritage cherry, really its a gorgeous guitar. but it's unplayable as received from the factory (the factory sent it to me direct as replacement for my initial purchase which was of a lesser model that had MAJOR problems).

 

I suspect it's the nut but am asking for other's thoughts. the symptoms:

 

-G,B,E strings will not hold tune whatsoever.

-G,B,E strings "pop" through the nut like crazy when tuning, it is even hard to tune the guitar on these strings at all

-some nut slots are not parallel to the neck. Given the gibson headstock layout, I can see why it might be a good thing for a nut slot to direct the string toward the machines a little, but in this case, I'm talking about nut slots that actually got cut angled *opposite* the direction of path of the string towards the machine.

-hi E string has broken 4 times in a month or so of having it, and I am not a string breaker. I only change strings when they get old.

 

I first tried lubrication of the nut, like I do for all guitars. Didn't help. then I tried gently expanding the nut slots with the edge of an 800 grit piece of sandpaper. And lube again. That helped with the tuning pops for about a day, but then it came back and this never fixed the tuning issue.

 

Where I am, a new nut installation runs $50-70 from local luthiers. I know for optimal setup any guitar, no matter how expensive, should go through a setup by a luthier but this is by far the most expensive guitar I've ever owned and even my Korean Epi Les Paul, Mexi Fender, and Korean Squier never had this kind of problem...I'd have hoped for better from my first USA guitar.

 

Is this typical for Gibson? Do I need a new nut? Could it be anything else? Is there anything I can do to fix it rather than take it to luthier?

[kaicho8888]

Post a close up picture please...The nuts are suppose to be plecked... so Gibson screwed up with the nut angles towards the tuners.

 

The slots should follow the break angle of the strings. If you tune the guitar then press on the strings behind the nut...do the string become and remain sharp or do you hear a "ping" when tuning? If so, you can continue with the folded sandpaper to widen the slots, grease and test again until it maintains the tune. Also test by doing deep bends...the string should go back to tuned condition. Use a finer sandpaper(1500 grit).

 

You can also file the top side of the nut to angle down more so that there is less string contact with the nut.

 

Good luck... Coincidentally, I just finished doing one for a buddy. We'll see if it works till next week..LOL.

[pb3000]

Post a close up picture please...The nuts are suppose to be plecked... so Gibson screwed up with the nut angles towards the tuners.

 

The slots should follow the break angle of the strings. If you tune the guitar then press on the strings behind the nut...do the string become and remain sharp or do you hear a "ping" when tuning? If so, you can continue with the folded sandpaper to widen the slots, grease and test again until it maintains the tune. Also test by doing deep bends...the string should go back to tuned condition. Use a finer sandpaper(1500 grit).

 

You can also file the top side of the nut to angle down more so that there is less string contact with the nut.

 

Good luck... Coincidentally, I just finished doing one for a buddy. We'll see if it works till next week..LOL.

 

 

Thanks for the quick response; photos attached. the d string is worst with the off-angle slot - hopefully that is visible in the photos.

 

But A, D, and G all are basically parallel to each other and all angled slightly towards the hi E side of the neck.

 

Pressing strings behind nut doesn't really do much - no ping, and they don't really seem to get sharp.

 

i'll keep trying the sand paper with a finer grit...

[AlanH]

Send those pics to Gibson customer services. In my view, they should pay for shop labour if you fund the cost of a nice bone nut.

[BigKahune]

.

I'll assume you tried new strings, the strings are properly wound and set on the tuning posts, and there are no pinch points at the saddles.

 

Looking at your excellent pictures, it's easy to see that the strings are not seated in their nut slots through the entire length of their slots. In recent years Gibson has been shaving down the headstock side of the nut, sometimes, like in your case, creating a situation where the strings can slip further out their slots, changing the string tension and thus changing the pitch. Widening the slots can sometimes make this situation worse. Since the headstock side of the nut was shaved too low, there's no way to fix it and a new one should be made.

 

I agree with Alan - since the guitar came directly from Gibson, Gibson should replace the nut.

 

 

Here's a pic I scrounged up showing how I like the nut to be setup - stings fully in the slots. If you wanted to ease the corner toward a slot's tuning post you could on that setup without problems.

 

[John Rutherford]

While the D & G slots aren't perfect they can't be the reason why the guitar is difficult to tune.

The idea is for the strings to have as minimal contact with the nut as possible i.e. shallow grooves which should

be no more than half the string's circumference below the top of the nut.

 

 

The slots only hold the strings secure laterally they have no influence in intonation [ unless the

slots are cut way too high ]

 

I had a look at all my Gibsons and most of the D & G string nut slots run parallel with the neck.

 

Try an intonation test on each string with an electronic tuner.

[Dallastx]

I would take it to a guitar tech. Mine as like many would ping when tuning. I filed the nut and fixed the problem. Would not have done it if I wasn't experienced at it.

D

[SGgypsyboy]

While the D & G slots aren't perfect they can't be the reason why the guitar is difficult to tune.

The idea is for the strings to have as minimal contact with the nut as possible i.e. shallow grooves which should

be no more than half the string's circumference below the top of the nut.

 

 

The slots only hold the strings secure laterally they have no influence in intonation [ unless the

slots are cut way too high ]

 

I had a look at all my Gibsons and most of the D & G string nut slots run parallel with the neck.

 

Try an intonation test on each string with an electronic tuner.

 

I agree with John on the depth of the nut slots. Almost every source I have researched including the almighty Dan Erlewine strongly emphasize having the strings no more than half their circumference below the top of the nut. And they need to follow the radius of the fretboard ex. 12 degrees etc... Do a google search on guitar nut slot depth and a wealth of insights from many major luthier's comes up.

[pb3000]

Send those pics to Gibson customer services. In my view, they should pay for shop labour if you fund the cost of a nice bone nut.

 

Yea, thanks all. I'm in a tough spot with Gibson, since the back story is that I originally bought a new US-made Melody Maker SG (at the time $300 on sale) and it was a wreck. the neck was so warped GBE would even sound notes above the 3rd fret. Pickguard bubbled all over the place due to out of alignment screw holes.

 

Gibson was great, they paid to ship the guitar to them, didn't have any Melody Makers in stock to replace it, and offered me this (a substantial free upgrade). So Gibson's done alot for me already and I hate looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

If it needs a new nut, so be it, but I'll probably pay for it. I don't feel right asking Gibson to do so on this guitar.

 

But I have an understandably low opinion of Gibson quality from these two examples. Never owned a US gibson before and never had these kinds of problems with guitars in the past. (Mexi Fender, Squier, Epiphone).

 

I guess I've been lucky with the cheap guitars and unlucky with the nice ones!

[stein]

First: judging from the pics, you NEED a new nut. It isn't cut right, and can't be from where it is now.

 

Now, one thing to keep in mind: IF the nut was so bad as to require replacement from Gibson, you kinda shouldn't have taken sandpaper to it not knowing what you are doing. Makes it a little hard for everyone in the chain. Maybe it was needing replacement before you did it, maybe not. It isn't a big deal at all, but just remember, if you take to fixing something yourself and it doesn't work, you should be willing to buy your own work.

 

If you take it to an authorized repair place, any work they do should also be covered by Gibson OR the shop. And, for something as common and trivial as a nut, they would almost surely rather have a shop do it than have it sent back.

 

As for asking them to fix it or pay for it, it is problably easier to just take it in, ask if they will or won't based on what they see, and be willing to pay if it comes down to it. You would still be WAY ahead of the game considering the upgrade you have. Besides, a well done nut is the BEST thing you can do for the action/set-up of a guitar. You can do a lot better than what typically comes from the factory. Even though there seems to be other brands that do better than Gibson does with the way the nuts leave the factory, most STILL benifit from more care on the nut.

[SGgypsyboy]

I hear you about looking the gift horse in the mouth. It was very generous of Gibson to give you such an upgrade replacement from a Melody Maker!...WHOA ! I would just locate a qualified luthier and pony up the 75 or so bucks and get a custom made nut installed. That way you can discuss with him your playing style, type of strings, how you like the action, etc... and he can tailor it to your needs. keep us posted on the outcome and best of luck!