Best Pickups for that classic rock tone?

[crazytrain513]

So I'm a huge classic rock fan. Some of my most covered artists are Randy Rhoads, Eddie Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Michael Schenker, Scorpions, ACDC, Dio, and 38 Special (to name a few).

 

Now I understand that they all have very different tones, different guitars with different woods and pickups, different effects chains, etc. etc.

 

But my question to you would be the following:

 

If I was to get one of the above to pickup choices in a Les Paul, which do you think would provide the most variety for me, and in turn, get me closest to some of the above artists' tones? Obviously, a lot of the above tones will require high output pickups, and I understand the 498T is a "hotter" pickup, but which would do the best job all around?

[Ryan H]

If I could have one set of pickups to do all of those artists, it would be a set of Wolfetone Marshallheads. Nice medium-high output vintage-voiced 'buckers, and hot enough to drive your amp. Lots of clarity and punch, but plenty of that lower-midrange girth for some of the heavier players you mentioned.

 

You can choose either Alnico 2 or Alnico 5 magnets (and Wolfe will gladly explain the difference), the exact output of your pickups (within reason, I asked for 8.5k on a P90 and got 8.49k), as well as different cover options.

 

Not to mention Wolfe's a great guy to talk to, and he's got a "wind it 'til you like it" policy, where he'll rewind/change magnets as many times as necessary until you like your pickups, at no charge. He'll also rewind/change magnets for any of your old pickups that you send him to the spec of one of His pickups at about 50% of the price of buying one new.

 

Out of the two options you gave though, Burstbuckers all the way. I can't stand ceramics.

 

Hope this helps,

 

-Ryan

[crazytrain513]

If I could have one set of pickups to do all of those artists, it would be a set of Wolfetone Marshallheads. Nice medium-high output vintage-voiced 'buckers, and hot enough to drive your amp. Lots of clarity and punch, but plenty of that lower-midrange girth for some of the heavier players you mentioned.

 

You can choose either Alnico 2 or Alnico 5 magnets (and Wolfe will gladly explain the difference), the exact output of your pickups (within reason, I asked for 8.5k on a P90 and got 8.49k), as well as different cover options.

 

Not to mention Wolfe's a great guy to talk to, and he's got a "wind it 'til you like it" policy, where he'll rewind/change magnets as many times as necessary until you like your pickups, at no charge. He'll also rewind/change magnets for any of your old pickups that you send him to the spec of one of His pickups at about 50% of the price of buying one new.

 

Out of the two options you gave though, Burstbuckers all the way. I can't stand ceramics.

 

Hope this helps,

 

-Ryan

 

 

Well the reason it was between these two is because I was looking at Les Pauls and these were the two pickup options (I don't want to buy a guitar and then spend extra on pickups). But thanks for the input!

[stein]

Also, a lot of those guitarist/tones you list were NOT done with "hotter" pups.

 

There is a lot of misconception involving hotter pups in regards to what they do and don't do. Some of the sounds listed above are not really possible with hotter pups, or rather, a hotter pup makes it harder.

 

What a hot pup is GOOD for, is if you primarily want an overdriven sound, and most or all of what you call "tone" is distortion, and distortion characteristics.

 

So...not only does it drive the amp more, but it eliminates a lot of color and overtones that might muck-up the distorted sound in the end. So, for "natural" distortion sounds they can sound great and be helpful to overall "tone".

 

However: a lot of overdriven sounds do not require a hotter pup. Especially amps being driven at the power tubes. Humbuckers already could be considered a "hot" pup compared to most "standard" or vintage winds-and this relates only to how the amp is made on the pre-amp. Beyond that, a lot of overdriven yones that DO require a lot of dymamics and "color" are much better with a higher-fidelity pup. And that means, more likely a "standard" output pup.

 

If you plug these different pups into various amps, you'll get the idea. I think that's really what you want to do anyway if you are going to KNOW which you like better.

[crazytrain513]

Also, a lot of those guitarist/tones you list were NOT done with "hotter" pups.

 

There is a lot of misconception involving hotter pups in regards to what they do and don't do. Some of the sounds listed above are not really possible with hotter pups, or rather, a hotter pup makes it harder.

 

What a hot pup is GOOD for, is if you primarily want an overdriven sound, and most or all of what you call "tone" is distortion, and distortion characteristics.

 

So...not only does it drive the amp more, but it eliminates a lot of color and overtones that might muck-up the distorted sound in the end. So, for "natural" distortion sounds they can sound great and be helpful to overall "tone".

 

However: a lot of overdriven sounds do not require a hotter pup. Especially amps being driven at the power tubes. Humbuckers already could be considered a "hot" pup compared to most "standard" or vintage winds-and this relates only to how the amp is made on the pre-amp. Beyond that, a lot of overdriven yones that DO require a lot of dymamics and "color" are much better with a higher-fidelity pup. And that means, more likely a "standard" output pup.

 

If you plug these different pups into various amps, you'll get the idea. I think that's really what you want to do anyway if you are going to KNOW which you like better.

 

You make a very good point. The only thing that bothers me about the Burstbuckers that I don't see as an issue with the ceramic 498T is that the Burstbuckers do not seem to be wax coated (or maybe they are, just not very much) which would provide for a lot of harmonic feedback around mics and other devices providing frequencies.

 

I unfortunately do not have the privilege of owning an all-tube amp (my next purchase hopefully) so I would be playing this guitar through a Line 6 transistor amp along with a Line 6 POD XT Live (an effects processor/ amp modeler). Will I still experience this issue?

 

Now that I think about it, a lot of these artists did not actually use ceramics back then so the alnico's would be the most accurate way to go. I guess another question, if you will, then is that since some of these artists did not use Les Paul style guitars (such as EVH and Michael Schenker), would the Burstbuckers, by chance, provide a tone that might be considered too "dark" or full for some of these artists?

 

I know I'm asking a lot of pickups to provide so much versatility and I know everything is not possible, but would you still agree, then, that the Burstbuckers would be the best match all-around regardless? Because when I look, the Les Paul Customs, the more pricey Studio Models, and even SG Standards come with the 490R/498T pickup combo for the most part. Why is it that these more expensive models come with those if the Burstbuckers, are in fact, more versatile and (if one would go as far as to say) better sounding?

[tazzboy]

Eddie Van Halen always like very weak low ohms pickups cause he amps were alway dimed out.

[btoth76]

Hello! For Randy Rhoads tone choose Super Humbuckers. :D Cheers... Bence

[crazytrain513]

Hello! For Randy Rhoads tone choose Super Humbuckers. :D Cheers... Bence

 

 

They aren't available for purchase are they? Also I was just trying to find the closest I could get with the two options I had mentioned because those come standard in the Les Paul and I didn't want to spend more money on pickups after purchasing a guitar

[btoth76]

They aren't available for purchase are they? Also I was just trying to find the closest I could get with the two options I had mentioned because those come standard in the Les Paul and I didn't want to spend more money on pickups after purchasing a guitar

 

Hello!

 

Unfortunately they aren't offered for aftermarket. Actually, I was using Your topic to point out to this fact - wishing someone at Gibson will read it. :) Sad, that many great pickups they do not offer separately, like the fat-split Burstbuckers of the current Standards, the splitable P-90s.

 

As for Your question, I would go with the crowd: choose a guitar with Burstbuckers. But again, that doesn't means they are better for the kind of music You play - it's just my preference. Try out a couple of LPs with different pickups. That's the only way...

 

Cheers... Bence

[crazytrain513]

Hello!

 

Unfortunately they aren't offered for aftermarket. Actually, I was using Your topic to point out to this fact - wishing someone at Gibson will read it. :) Sad, that many great pickups they do not offer separately, like the fat-split Burstbuckers of the current Standards, the splitable P-90s.

 

As for Your question, I would go with the crowd: choose a guitar with Burstbuckers. But again, that doesn't means they are better for the kind of music You play - it's just my preference. Try out a couple of LPs with different pickups. That's the only way...

 

Cheers... Bence

 

Well in that case, I second your request for the ability to purchase Super '74's

 

And hm. I actually just purchased a Les Paul with Burstbucker Pro's on it as you saw. I haven't had a chance to mess around with my tones too much yet (I'm coming from a Washburn Superstrat) so my current tones sound very bassy at the moment (as this is how I used to compensate for the thin-ness of the strat-style body) but from what it sounds like, Alnicos > Ceramics almost every time.

 

Thanks for the input!

[Metalrulez]

I for one am not a fan of the Burstbucker Pros in the bridge position.Infact I hate the damm things. They are too bright to my ears with my amps. They just might work for you. Wolfe Is a great guy to work with when you have a sound in your head and getting results. I put a Marshallhead in the bridge of my Les Paul Studio and it was just what was needed to my ears. Remember that the tone is subjective. I believe that it is a quest that never ends because it is not the kill it is the thrill of the chase.YMMV ETTTDP :) :P

[blueslespaultone]

You could look for a 70s les Paul , or buy some A3 pickups with 42 AWG wire,

Measuring 7.4-7.6 ohms wax potted, and 0.022 mf caps.

Paraphrase from here

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Randy-Rhoads-Les-Paul-Custom/Pickups-and-Electronics.aspx

But I think for the range of tones your looking for, you could get a studio with 490r and 498t

Or a trad pro with classic 57 neck and bb3 bridge, trad with cl57 &57+,

Or a standard with BB pros

I think a combination of amp, pedals, guitar, and fingers will get you where you need to be.

[AlanH]

498T and 490R pups are not ceramic. In my view they're ideal for the hard rock and '80s metal tones you seek.

 

Don't bother spending money changing pups. Get yourself a tube amp and some nice analog pedals.

[DiamondJig]

BB pro's & the 498T both have an Alnico V mag, the 490R is Alnico II Both are good pickups, I have them both and like them both, the volume knob works wonders in taming a hot pickup and when you need a little more all you have to do is turn her up. If I had to choose I would like the BB pro neck and a 498T bridge, best of both.

[crazytrain513]

I for one am not a fan of the Burstbucker Pros in the bridge position. In fact I hate the damm things. They are too bright to my ears with my amps. They just might work for you.

 

The brightness can be tamed via the tone knob & a bit of EQ'ing though, no?

 

 

498T and 490R pups are not ceramic. In my view they're ideal for the hard rock and '80s metal tones you seek.

 

Don't bother spending money changing pups. Get yourself a tube amp and some nice analog pedals.

 

I have a Line 6 POD XT Live so amp tone and effects are pretty easily accessible to me. Tube amp is my goal for the future Interesting opinion though -- first one saying 480R/498T over BB Pros. We're talking about in a Les Paul, correct? Because I keep hearing a lot of people prefer the 490R/498T in the SG and BB Pros in the Les Paul...thoughts?

 

 

If I had to choose I would like the BB pro neck and a 498T bridge, best of both.

 

This is not a bad idea by any means. Why are 498T's so much cheaper than bridge BB Pros though?

[Dg77]

498T and 490R pups are not ceramic. In my view they're ideal for the hard rock and '80s metal tones you seek.

 

Don't bother spending money changing pups. Get yourself a tube amp and some nice analog pedals.

 

 

Agree - I have a trad plus with 57's and a blackstar 60w tube...I use a boss eq pedal in the loop and I can dial in anything from blues, southern rock, to screaming metal. The amp itself has a lot of versatility, but the pickups are more than enough.

 

Now, if I want to really pierce ears, will use my PRS with zakk wylde pups. \m/\m/

[crazytrain513]

Agree - I have a trad plus with 57's and a blackstar 60w tube...I use a boss eq pedal in the loop and I can dial in anything from blues, southern rock, to screaming metal. The amp itself has a lot of versatility, but the pickups are more than enough.

 

Now, if I want to really pierce ears, will use my PRS with zakk wylde pups. \m/\m/

 

I decided on Burstbucker Pros. They're surprisingly hot (for what I expected) through my solid-state amp, and they really are bright enough that I end up turning down the tone knob quite often in the bridge position. But I'm really liking them. Zakk Wylde PUPs as in EMGs?

[Rollo Rodriguez]

I decided on Burstbucker Pros. They're surprisingly hot (for what I expected) through my solid-state amp, and they really are bright enough that I end up turning down the tone knob quite often in the bridge position. But I'm really liking them. Zakk Wylde PUPs as in EMGs?

 

498T is a lot hotter than BB Pro Bridge.

 

490R is Alnico II. It is also hotter than BB Pro Neck. Also more bass and less mids.

[Dg77]

I decided on Burstbucker Pros. They're surprisingly hot (for what I expected) through my solid-state amp, and they really are bright enough that I end up turning down the tone knob quite often in the bridge position. But I'm really liking them. Zakk Wylde PUPs as in EMGs?

 

 

Yah, the only Santana model oyou will ever see with zakks lol

[crazytrain513]

Yah, the only Santana model oyou will ever see with zakks lol

 

You said that right haha. Actually, before I got my Les Paul a couple weeks ago, I was looking into an LTD EC-1000 with EMGs and I'm not fond of active pickups but it sounded downright awesome. The only reason I couldn't pull the trigger on it was because the actives couldn't produce very good cleans . Don't know if it was just in that guitar or just a characteristic of actives?

[Dg77]

You said that right haha. Actually, before I got my Les Paul a couple weeks ago, I was looking into an LTD EC-1000 with EMGs and I'm not fond of active pickups but it sounded downright awesome. The only reason I couldn't pull the trigger on it was because the actives couldn't produce very good cleans . Don't know if it was just in that guitar or just a characteristic of actives?

 

 

Yeah the EMGs are a dirtier clean. They can do that Metallica type of clean, but you won't get a real crisp bright chime from them. It's a fun little guitar tonight. I've had it for 10 years or so, so it was time to make some upgrades/mods. Once I got my lp trad, it was time!

[Sgt.]

If I could have one set of pickups to do all of those artists, it would be a set of Wolfetone Marshallheads. Nice medium-high output vintage-voiced 'buckers, and hot enough to drive your amp. Lots of clarity and punch, but plenty of that lower-midrange girth for some of the heavier players you mentioned.

 

You can choose either Alnico 2 or Alnico 5 magnets (and Wolfe will gladly explain the difference), the exact output of your pickups (within reason, I asked for 8.5k on a P90 and got 8.49k), as well as different cover options.

 

Not to mention Wolfe's a great guy to talk to, and he's got a "wind it 'til you like it" policy, where he'll rewind/change magnets as many times as necessary until you like your pickups, at no charge. He'll also rewind/change magnets for any of your old pickups that you send him to the spec of one of His pickups at about 50% of the price of buying one new.

 

Out of the two options you gave though, Burstbuckers all the way. I can't stand ceramics.

 

Hope this helps,

 

-Ryan

 

Assuming you want humbuckers ... there are P90 'soapbars' (prehumbucker) that would fit vintage rock sound like fifties rock n' roll ... like a bright single coil ... but the electrical hum from P90s without a hum debugger would drive me to humbuckers!

yeah, i was gonna say alnico or ceramic? That 'classic' rock tone, you mean the pickups 'they' used? Classic era rock n' roll sixties and seventies? The patent applied for (PAF) Gibson Burstbuckers are a good bet to get close to the pickups in the Les Pauls of forty or fifty years ago, and I would think alnico (aluminum nickel cobalt) magnets either II's or V's (number dictates what ratio of magnet element used). Probably the II's. Right, you want the 59' Les Paul Standard pickup 'sound'? Look up the specs on that guitar. The myth of tone coming from legendary guitars entails 'improperly' or rather inconsistently wound paf's of a specific guitar so one pickup might have been inconsitently overwound, making it hotter. The builders often used whatever magnets were handy (I guess because previous use of cobalt during the war made it expensive and less available), so some original paf's might have alnico V and II's in them. The other 'sounds' that you associate with 'classic' rock like the Jimmy Page sound for example, might come from out of phase pickup switchs. You can get a JP wiring harness with push/pull pots for that sound. I think the original Fleetwood Mac, which used to be a blues band, Peter Green's pickup magnets were (polar opposite)reversed as to be 'out of phase'.

Changing the tone on the guitar doesn't have to be strictly a pickup change, consider a classic era correct capacitor, like a paper in oil (instead of modern ceramic) cap to get closer to that 'classic' guitar tone. Furthermore than pickup changes, consider the speakers in your amp and the tubes in your head, you can use alnico speakers and premium NOS (new old stock) tubes to achieve that 'classic' sound. The copper ferrite (ceramic) magnets would be newer technology and not true to the original genuine 'classic' pickup specs as alnico mags would be, but every bit as valid. I would think with today's technology you could reproduce a reasonable facsimile of your favourite guitar tone using modern effects, amps, and pickups. Google the guitar equipment of the guitar player that you associate with the 'classic rock' sound. That may help you get closer to the pickups you want.

 

Q: Is neodynium making any waves in the pickup world?

[Cú Chulainn]

Some of my most covered artists are Randy Rhoads, Eddie Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Michael Schenker, Scorpions, ACDC, Dio, and 38 Special (to name a few).

 

which would do the best job all around?

 

only one pickup comes to mind. DiMarzio Super Distortion

[AlanH]

Assuming you want humbuckers ... there are P90 'soapbars' (prehumbucker) that would fit vintage rock sound like fifties rock n' roll ... like a bright single coil ... but the electrical hum from P90s without a hum debugger would drive me to humbuckers!

yeah, i was gonna say alnico or ceramic? That 'classic' rock tone, you mean the pickups 'they' used? Classic era rock n' roll sixties and seventies? The patent applied for (PAF) Gibson Burstbuckers are a good bet to get close to the pickups in the Les Pauls of forty or fifty years ago, and I would think alnico (aluminum nickel cobalt) magnets either II's or V's (number dictates what ratio of magnet element used). Probably the II's. Right, you want the 59' Les Paul Standard pickup 'sound'? Look up the specs on that guitar. The myth of tone coming from legendary guitars entails 'improperly' or rather inconsistently wound paf's of a specific guitar so one pickup might have been inconsitently overwound, making it hotter. The builders often used whatever magnets were handy (I guess because previous use of cobalt during the war made it expensive and less available), so some original paf's might have alnico V and II's in them. The other 'sounds' that you associate with 'classic' rock like the Jimmy Page sound for example, might come from out of phase pickup switchs. You can get a JP wiring harness with push/pull pots for that sound. I think the original Fleetwood Mac, which used to be a blues band, Peter Green's pickup magnets were (polar opposite)reversed as to be 'out of phase'.

Changing the tone on the guitar doesn't have to be strictly a pickup change, consider a classic era correct capacitor, like a paper in oil (instead of modern ceramic) cap to get closer to that 'classic' guitar tone. Furthermore than pickup changes, consider the speakers in your amp and the tubes in your head, you can use alnico speakers and premium NOS (new old stock) tubes to achieve that 'classic' sound. The copper ferrite (ceramic) magnets would be newer technology and not true to the original genuine 'classic' pickup specs as alnico mags would be, but every bit as valid. I would think with today's technology you could reproduce a reasonable facsimile of your favourite guitar tone using modern effects, amps, and pickups. Google the guitar equipment of the guitar player that you associate with the 'classic rock' sound. That may help you get closer to the pickups you want.

 

Q: Is neodynium making any waves in the pickup world?

 

 

The bands he's citing in the OP aren't really classic rock, maybe with the exception of early AC/DC. I still maintain that 490R/498T will be just fine (with a tube amp and nice analog pedals) but I agree about BBs for '60s/'70s classic rock.

[Sgt.]

So I'm a huge classic rock fan. Some of my most covered artists are Randy Rhoads, Eddie Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Michael Schenker, Scorpions, ACDC, Dio, and 38 Special (to name a few).

 

Now I understand that they all have very different tones, different guitars with different woods and pickups, different effects chains, etc. etc.

 

But my question to you would be the following:

 

If I was to get one of the above to pickup choices in a Les Paul, which do you think would provide the most variety for me, and in turn, get me closest to some of the above artists' tones? Obviously, a lot of the above tones will require high output pickups, and I understand the 498T is a "hotter" pickup, but which would do the best job all around?

 

hey, ceramic magnets were around in the seventies. you can certainly consider ceramic mag. pu's 'classic'. i have personally choose to go 'vintage' with the alnico BB pros. the alnico magnets are supposed to sound warmer at lower volumes, the ceramic mags. take the crushing high power of today's music, at least it seems that way with speakers. what about pre-humbucker classic tones, neil young's black lp, robby krieger's early sg ... P90's hmmmm? The solo on Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2 was supposed to be recorded on an lp with p90s. but you're only considering humbuckers eh? i think the bb pros are supposed to model the paf's of the 59' standards because the originals are so desirable. personally i have to really lower the bb pros on my lp because they are too hot at factory setting and i may have a hum issue with these pickups. imagine that a hum issue with humbuckers! (may be because they're hot)