spike286 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I have wanted one of the 2011 firebird non reverse studio's for awhile now so i bought one at sam ash and i'm so disappointed. To start with i live in a mountain community 200 mile round trip from any large city kind of cut off by a mountain pass so to go and get this guitar came at great effort and expense in gas. i pick up my guitar and as you all know they are never set up or intonated so you can't really see what is going on till you get it home and hooked up to a strobe tuner. after a total set up this guitar can not hold tune on a simple d chord as the nut is to tall and some of thr frets are uneven. if you fret the chord as light as a feather it will tune but it is impossible to play in that manner making the guitar useless. i call sam ash and they want me to pay to ship it to them $50 ups one way return to me and they could care less that i paid well over $1000.00 plus drove 200 miles with gas as expensive as it is and i'm supposed to shell out more $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for this. what the hell like it's my fault? if Gibson had proper quality control this never would have happened it should not have left their factory like this saying it passed inspection. this is such a let down as i am retired and on social security and it took me a long time to save for a nice guitar and i can't afford to pay more. sam ash has a bad policy on this but i blame Gibson for this mess for a total lack of quality control. i considered buying an Eastwood stormbird for $400.00 and now wish i had. over the years i have owned Gibson's mainly Les Paul's and never had a complaint but i have watched Gibson letting the quality go down lately and it is a shame. i am desperately trying to find a solution to this but if i'm just out more $$$$$ for something that was not my fault Gibson will have lost a 20 plus customer for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxom Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Trade that hunk of wood for a Telecaster. There, your problem's solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Blue Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I know what you mean. The past few years, the quality at Gibson has gone down. I just visited the House of Guitars in Rochester NY to pick up a Les Paul special in TV yellow. I was gassin' for one. The quality was terrible. The binding was a dull yellow color, not a nice clean off white. The machine heads were also a yellowy color, not the white buttons or even the green machine heads. I opted for a Gretsch as the quality was much better for the same price. I have been a faithfull Gibson buyer for years but this was just dissapointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblooded Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sorry to hear your dissapointment. Being that far from the store doesn't help. In hindsight, you probably should have made sure it was right before leaving the store with it (but you already know that). Hoping they can make it right by you. Can you just return it? A lot of stores have a satisfaction guarantee. And if you paid with a credit card, you may have some recourse through them if it gets ugly. I would hope that if Sam Ash doesn't come through, maybe Gibson will? Also, I think they have those 2012 models on sale now for $599 (see the SMASH sale post from today). Maybe you can get the difference back as well if that's one of them. Good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxom Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I know what you mean. The past few years, the quality at Gibson has gone down. I just visited the House of Guitars in Rochester NY to pick up a Les Paul special in TV yellow. I was gassin' for one. The quality was terrible. The binding was a dull yellow color, not a nice clean off white. The machine heads were also a yellowy color, not the white buttons or even the green machine heads. I opted for a Gretsch as the quality was much better for the same price. I have been a faithfull Gibson buyer for years but this was just dissapointing. Â Â I don't understand why yellowed parts are a problem. Everything that's binded on Norma is yellowed, and she's a pretty, old, girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblooded Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I know what you mean. The past few years, the quality at Gibson has gone down. I just visited the House of Guitars in Rochester NY to pick up a Les Paul special in TV yellow. I was gassin' for one. The quality was terrible. The binding was a dull yellow color, not a nice clean off white. The machine heads were also a yellowy color, not the white buttons or even the green machine heads. I opted for a Gretsch as the quality was much better for the same price. I have been a faithfull Gibson buyer for years but this was just dissapointing. Â Not sure I understand how your dislike of the color of the binding and tuners has anything to do with quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike286 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 to answer that one comment i should have made sure it was right before leaving i did my best. the flaws i mentioned imitate a guitar that needs to be intoneated and would have happened to anyone. i have never seen a store that lets a customer take out tools and work on a guitar that you haven't bought yet so what could i do. i looked for fret buzz and all the other signs but this could not have been caught with out a strobe tuner. thanks for the thought though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike286 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sorry to hear your dissapointment. Being that far from the store doesn't help. In hindsight, you probably should have made sure it was right before leaving the store with it (but you already know that). Hoping they can make it right by you. Can you just return it? A lot of stores have a satisfaction guarantee. And if you paid with a credit card, you may have some recourse through them if it gets ugly. I would hope that if Sam Ash doesn't come through, maybe Gibson will? Also, I think they have those 2012 models on sale now for $599 (see the SMASH sale post from today). Maybe you can get the difference back as well if that's one of them. Good luck to you! either way i'm out 200 miles gas or shipping fees. as far as i know the 2012 models are reverse body's and i specifically wanted non reverse along with the special electronics (3 p 90's 5 way switch with coil taps ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblooded Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 to answer that one comment i should have made sure it was right before leaving i did my best. the flaws i mentioned imitate a guitar that needs to be intoneated and would have happened to anyone. i have never seen a store that lets a customer take out tools and work on a guitar that you haven't bought yet so what could i do. i looked for fret buzz and all the other signs but this could not have been caught with out a strobe tuner. thanks for the thought though Being in a large metro area, there are lots of stores to shop. 4 Guitar Center's within about an hour, and some great independant shops too (Motor City Guitar is the Shizzz!). I would not hesitate to take my strobe tuner, or ask to use one of theirs to check intonation and make (or have them make) adjustments before leaving the store with a major purchase. And I don't believe any of them would have a problem with it if they want the sale. Again, I hope it works out for you. You'll probably get better results if try to get them to work with you rather than going in with both barrels loaded. I mean, I'm sure they didn't try to sell you a POS, and they have limitations as to what is expected in the way of shipping for returns, etc. What you explained is fairly common practice with any retailer. And no, im not a retailer. You just sound emotional about it right now and that's understandable. Just need to use reason instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike286 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Being in a large metro area, there are lots of stores to shop. 4 Guitar Center's within about an hour, and some great independant shops too (Motor City Guitar is the Shizzz!). I would not hesitate to take my strobe tuner, or ask to use one of theirs to check intonation and make (or have them make) adjustments before leaving the store with a major purchase. And I don't believe any of them would have a problem with it if they want the sale. Again, I hope it works out for you. You'll probably get better results if try to get them to work with you rather than going in with both barrels loaded. I mean, I'm sure they didn't try to sell you a POS, and they have limitations as to what is expected in the way of shipping for returns, etc. What you explained is fairly common practice with any retailer. And no, im not a retailer. You just sound emotional about it right now and that's understandable. Just need to use reason instead. i always act professional as far as being pissed yes i am all i'm saying is that if Gibson and sam ash want repeat business they need to take care of this. my main complaint was with Gibson for letting this guitar out with a passed inspection on it. it's not like the old days with my Les Paul's i have some old ones and they are built like tanks and have the best quality around for the 60's and 70's. what the hell it is what it is but definitely a huge disappointment on behalf of Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I dunno... Â I have had a cupla interesting lessons with guitars where I live, too. 3,100 feet isn't high, but it's awfully, awfully dry compared to Nashville or just about anywhere east of the Missouri and west of the Sierras. Â I got an AE from Sweetwater that had the top B and E strings almost flat on the fingerboard. Â In retrospect, my rapid return may have been an error. I believe the company that they check stuff at some point, and they couldn't have shipped something that far out of whack. So... I ask myself what happened. Â For what it's worth, the one they sent did do well. Nearly a year later I got another different shape AE. This one also had a horrid buzz, intonation difficulty, etc. Almost unplayable. But I was in the middle of a series of 80-hour work weeks and the guitar just sat in the case. Â When I had a little time later on, I went to play the thing before I called to send it back. It's a good thing. The guitar was marvelously set up. What? Yup. It apparently needed time to acclimatize. Â Now in your case, a 2011 guitar that may have been in the shop a while, may have been played, may have been in a window, may have... Â I dunno. I guess I have a hard time blaming Gibson. Problem for them is pretty simple. Let's say that a guitar is "perfect" when it leaves Nashville, Memphis or Montana. It's wood and wood to metal and plastic. Wood is not static depending on environmental factors. So are more than a few metals and plastics. Â So... I dunno. Frankly I'd love to have time to head out a long day's drive to the Montana factor if they'd let me get a box right off the line. Ain't got time and they'd likely not let me anyway. Â <sigh> I guess on this one I tend to blame Sam Ash far more than Gibson, especially for not apparently trying to meet your concerns. It's damned difficult when some of us live really in the outback. Â m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 As a national clothing store uses as their tag-line, "An educated consumer is our best customer"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sorry to hear about your distress. Â It might be as milod says and the guitar may settle down within a few days. I'd find it very surprising if a modern Gibson Firebird was so bad as to be unplayable. I appreciate you have had considerable experience with Gibsons over the years and I'm sure you are capable of trying out many things to address the problems you are experiencing. Â Unfortunately it boils down to Caveat Emptor. You really should have checked the guitar out more fully whilst you were in the store - especially as you say you had some doubts at the time. I'm sure Sam Ash would have carried out some checks for you. It hardly takes any time for a competent person to sort out a guitar assuming the instrument is fundamentally sound. If the instrument ISN'T sound then this will also become apparent rarther quickly. Â As far as the round trip and the money for petrol goes; that's absolutely nothing to do with the store. It's a shame to have seemingly wasted time and money but your choice of residence is hardly any concern of Sam Ash. Â P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 http://www.ibanez.com/Electronics/Series-ar This interests me. Half the price of a Les Paul. I'd like an original, but the new one may be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sounds like you may have the problem where the unwound strings are sitting too high in the nut - where the string slots are not deep enough. If you could somehow measure the string heights at the first fret, you might be able to determine that for sure. Then you would know what the problem is. Â The problem with dealing with a retail chain is that if you bring it back, there's a good chance they won't know how to fix it. Then you're in trouble because they'll jack you around because they don't know how to fix guitars. This is the scenario you want to avoid. If you can determine the problem yourself - I know that sounds wrong - then you can insist that they fix it and make sure they don't jack you around. Â You could try calling the Sam Ash store and ask them if they are familiar with this particular issue. If they don't say yes, don't take it to them to get fixed. Period. Either return it or take it to a good luthier. Â The best thing you can do is to pay a good luthier to look at the guitar and advise you what to do. He can spot the high nut issue just by looking at it. Nobody needs an ocilliscope to do any of this stuff (whaddayuo kidding me?). He can fix it in a jiffy and do a complete setup and get it playing like butter. Â I will say this. Whoever is doing the final setup & inspection at the Gibson factory is horrible. Period. Whoever you are, you bite the big one. And I know, cause I can do this crap way better that you guys and I'm just some dope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Â The best thing you can do is to pay a good luthier to look at the guitar and advise you what to do. He can spot the high nut issue just by looking at it. Nobody needs an ocilliscope to do any of this stuff (whaddayuo kidding me?). He can fix it in a jiffy and do a complete setup and get it playing like butter. Â I will say this. Whoever is doing the final setup & inspection at the Gibson factory is horrible. Period. Whoever you are, you bite the big one. And I know, cause I can do this crap way better that you guys and I'm just some dope. I agree totally. Gibson can't set a guitar up for everyone though. Just an hour with a luthier would make it play great. I'd say contact the store/Gibson and ask if they'd pay the cost. Take a few pics to back you up and send those in. Tell them it's on here too. Gibson should already know that though. Wink wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I also think that a high nut totally ruins the feel of a guitar. It's much different to a high action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 . Unfortunately Gibson doesn't do nut cuts consistently - some are okay, some are bad, and some are terrible. And there setups usually leave room for personal adjustments. So it's a crap shoot. Â Two problems I see quite a bit in Gibson factory nuts: One is the string slots are sometimes too high and the nut slots need to filed to the proper depth. Another is the nut is sometimes rolled off to steeply and the strings don't stay in the slots all the way to the back edge of the nut. That last one can be hard to understand so there's a pic below - it's a pic of a factory cut nut with the headstock side of the nut rolled off to steeply. You can see that the A D G and B strings aren't seated in the nut slots properly and are angling toward their tuning posts over the top of the back edge of the nut. The strings can easily slip further out of the nut slots changing the tension (pitch) of the string. This nut needs to be replaced. Â From what you said about the frets, sounds like they need to be leveled. Some will have a new guitar setup with a fret level. There are shops that include a basic setup with a guitar purchase. Apparently Sam Ash doesn't. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I take up on the 'educated customer' post...very appropriate...  A couple of 'reality' checks may be worthwhile...  Earlier threads have already pointed up the issues with the Non-Reverse Firebird Studio  IMO a tempting guitar with seemingly broad tonal capability...at an almost unrealistic low price...  Intonation issues are often quite personal to the player...and not usually the fault of the retailer or Gibson per se  I am a huge Firebird enthusiast(see left)...being very tempted a year or so ago to purchase a Studio N-R  'Luckily' none were available from stock at the time...  My eventual purchase was a 'standard' N-R at a large premium...which has proven to be well worth the extra...  V  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catnine Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Since it's a solid body electric usually things don't change much like they do on an acoustic. It does depend on how long ago it was built you can't slap out a neck and glue on the finger board or even glue the neck on or make a body out of three sections without letting the water from the glue evaporate completely because the wood swells with the water . So in that sense things will shrink and change . Since it's a USA Gibson and not an inexpensive one I would think Gibson would know that. All that is really left is the setup which should be done without frets uneven or a sloppy cut nut to begin with. Â I can understand one setup my please one player but not all but the guitar should be setup to be playable so then the buyer can decide if he of she wants to spend the extra money to have it setup the way they want and not be forced to pay extra when it should be playable , they do have specs that they use and should be at least set to spec and playable. Isn't that is what quality control is all about. Since it's new the warrenty is good and Gibson should be able to point you to a tech and do the adjustments under warrenty , Gibson does have shops that do their warrenty work just call them and see who they find near you and bring the receipt as proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 If the intonation was out in the store you should have asked them to set it. Â The colour of the binding is not a quality control issue. Â Gibson QC is about as good as it gets with human beings involved. Â You must have known you were buying a guitar with a return to base warranty. Â You made some mistakes, no matter how much Gibson might be to blame for the issues with the guitar the only person who can be blamed for you owning it is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I am on the one hand sorry for your troubles. Â On the other hand... Â If you know enough about guitars to start talking too higha nut and uneven frets, it is my opinion based on my experience that you know enough about guitars to pick one around those faults or potential faults. A guitar will either intonate or it won't. Â Whether it intonates or not, if you can't fret a D without it going out of tune, the intonation doesn't matter. It'll either have a good nut or it won't. Sounds to me like fix the nut and you'll solve most of the problems. Â The other part of the problem is that Gobsin doesn't care where you live or how far it is to the store or any of that, so while your frustration is understandable, it is somewhat misguided. Â Nightmare? I only could wish I had a life like yours that a crummy set up on a new guitar was a nightmare. Â Good luck with it. Â rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catnine Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I have wanted one of the 2011 firebird non reverse studio's for awhile now so i bought one at sam ash and i'm so disappointed. To start with i live in a mountain community 200 mile round trip from any large city kind of cut off by a mountain pass so to go and get this guitar came at great effort and expense in gas. i pick up my guitar and as you all know they are never set up or intonated so you can't really see what is going on till you get it home and hooked up to a strobe tuner. after a total set up this guitar can not hold tune on a simple d chord as the nut is to tall and some of thr frets are uneven. if you fret the chord as light as a feather it will tune but it is impossible to play in that manner making the guitar useless. i call sam ash and they want me to pay to ship it to them $50 ups one way return to me and they could care less that i paid well over $1000.00 plus drove 200 miles with gas as expensive as it is and i'm supposed to shell out more $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for this. what the hell like it's my fault? if Gibson had proper quality control this never would have happened it should not have left their factory like this saying it passed inspection. this is such a let down as i am retired and on social security and it took me a long time to save for a nice guitar and i can't afford to pay more. sam ash has a bad policy on this but i blame Gibson for this mess for a total lack of quality control. i considered buying an Eastwood stormbird for $400.00 and now wish i had. over the years i have owned Gibson's mainly Les Paul's and never had a complaint but i have watched Gibson letting the quality go down lately and it is a shame. i am desperately trying to find a solution to this but if i'm just out more $$$$$ for something that was not my fault Gibson will have lost a 20 plus customer for life. Just call Gibson and let them tell you of a location near you that they have who is a factory autherized repair tech . When you buy online from sam ash they will take it back and send another you buy form the store in person they won't take it back unless you bring it to them. Trust me I called Gibson and they gave me the closest gibson autherized repair tech just bring the receipt and it will be covered under gibsons warrenty. At least try that as the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 So swap out the nut and level the frets, it'll probably cost less than the 50 bucks to ship it ??? Guitars need tune ups and set-ups just like anything else if you can't do it yourself make sure you buy from somebody that can and that it's don't right. If the nut is to tall your in luck always easier to file the grooves down rather than fill or swap. A bone nut is the first thing that goes in every guitar I own and if the nut is too high to intonate you don't need a strobe tuner to see that in a store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I bet it was set up properly when it left the factory. If it's out of whack at the store, and they're incapable or incompetent to maintain the proper setup, and you buy it anyway ... that's a bad recipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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