EuroAussie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just doesnt look right to me. Burst looks wrong, in too good a condition and just something feels .....wrong. And the price seems to low.. What do you think ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1946-Gibson-J-45-Acoustic-Guitar-Exceptional-Sound-Great-Action-/380513245036?pt=Guitar&hash=item58985b576c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 JT is also signed in on this page, so awaiting his reply. FWIW, the headstock looks legit. Shape, binding, etc. look basically in order. The burst screams refinish. The bridge screams replacement (though appropriate through-saddle job). Plenty of finish checking (less on body than on headstock, again suggests refinish), perhaps suggesting that any refinish was done a while ago. So not quite right, but not entirely wrong either. If it's a total fake, it's well done apart from the burst. Even that's no pfox job, not ideal, but liveable. They even went to the length of stamping the neck block with an FON. As for the price, if it's at all legit, it won't stay that low, even if refinished. I'd probably buy it for 810 dollars myself, and discuss with Mrs Mojo later. But it will rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't think it's fake at all, but the top suggests a re-finish, probably a number of years ago. The fairly hard shading transition in the 'burst is not unknown, but seems too pronounced for that period. Note that the pickguard placement, with the pickguard covering the rosette ring, is uncharacteristic of J-45's from the early post-war period, so I believe that has been off at some point, perhaps during a re-finish. The FON and the way it is stamped look legit for 1946 or 1947. The listing suggests a general overspray, which seems correct given the finish wear on the headstock compared to the rest of the guitar, as best I can tell from the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 So in other words if its the real deal it looks like it could be a steal at the way the pricing is going ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So in other words if its the real deal it looks like it could be a steal at the way the pricing is going ? Yes, potentially even better than the AJ. BUT, it WILL go up at the last minute. Bid, EA, but decide how high you're willing to go and then fingers crossed. I really would bid, but I think that the price is already at my limit even for such an item, and the argument post-buying would not be worth it. If you win I'll settle for a trip to Prague to try out your new instruments! I note that JT has disappeared. Perhaps he's bidding himself!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Refinished....by Paul Fox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Not the best respray I've ever seen... but at least pfox has been nowhere near it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree, I think it is a refinished '46 J-45. I don't think it was just overstayed -- here is an original '46 burst on the center guitar. Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't think it's fake at all, but the top suggests a re-finish, probably a number of years ago. The fairly hard shading transition in the 'burst is not unknown, but seems too pronounced for that period. Note that the pickguard placement, with the pickguard covering the rosette ring, is uncharacteristic of J-45's from the early post-war period, so I believe that has been off at some point, perhaps during a re-finish. The FON and the way it is stamped look legit for 1946 or 1947. The listing suggests a general overspray, which seems correct given the finish wear on the headstock compared to the rest of the guitar, as best I can tell from the photos. So is this indicative of the value of your J45 were it to be listed on ebay, Nick? :-" :-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Regarding the finish, I know that whenever I try to photograph my guitars the yellow in the burst looks so much more pronounced than it does if you eyeballed the guitar in person. Based on the photos though, it does look legit to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So is this indicative of the value of your J45 were it to be listed on ebay, Nick? :-" :-" Oh, no. Mine's worth at least $10 more. But yes, the thought did occur to me...... That's OK. After giving me 45 years of stewardship pleasure, I couldn't care less what mine is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here is the burst on my 1946-47 LG-2. Funny though, looking at mine and the pics above it really looks like Gibson did not spend a whole lot of time on the finish. It The dark color on the lower bout was shot in a straight line with very little attempt to blend it in. Might just be a reflection of the fact the guitar was at the bottom of the Gibson food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Regarding the finish, I know that whenever I try to photograph my guitars the yellow in the burst looks so much more pronounced than it does if you eyeballed the guitar in person. That is certainly true. When you compare some vintage 'bursts to those produced today, the older ones sometimes look almost garish in contrast, and they can photograph even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here is the burst on my 1946-47 LG-2. ZW, what's that dark rectangle on the inside, visible through the soundhole? Fabric stay? (Love that quilt, by the way. Reminds me of ones my Grannies used to do back in Mississippi.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 ZW, what's that dark rectangle on the inside, visible through the soundhole? (Love that quilt, by the way. Reminds me of ones my Grannies used to do back in Mississippi.) That is one of the fabric side strips. The quilt is out of Ohio. And yeah, it was made by my wife's Grandmother. The only quilt I have made in MS was given me by a friend when I lived down there. It is made entirely of old flour sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Oh, no. Mine's worth at least $10 more. But yes, the thought did occur to me...... That's OK. After giving me 45 years of stewardship pleasure, I couldn't care less what mine is worth. With all the back story documented on here, we can surely rack it up a bit more than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes, potentially even better than the AJ. BUT, it WILL go up at the last minute. Bid, EA, but decide how high you're willing to go and then fingers crossed. I really would bid, but I think that the price is already at my limit even for such an item, and the argument post-buying would not be worth it. If you win I'll settle for a trip to Prague to try out your new instruments! I note that JT has disappeared. Perhaps he's bidding himself!!!!! Oh no, Im done with buying guitars for a while, have no intenton of bidding for this one, hate that burst. Looks like a bad Martin burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 46 have a distinctive finish and this is not it. The Bridge and pickguard are not correct either. Could be a great guitar, but not original. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 My '46: I think that the top was refinished on the one from eBay but I have been wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunningham26 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here's the finish on my '46 L48. Like the others, much more brown and little to no black areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree with the general consensus here: it looks to be refinished with a slightly oversized replacement bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Agree with those who arose much earlier than I did (ahh, the western time zones...!), the burst looks like a refin. I suspect that is the main issue; I don't believe it to be a 'fake', per se. It seems to me that there has been an increase lately in the number of, er, 'undisclosed' refins, "touch-ups", "oversprays", etc., not only on eBay, but in other places. Some with supposed 'dealers' too. Lesson is "Buyer Beware", and ask lots of questions! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It seems to me that there has been an increase lately in the number of, er, 'undisclosed' refins, "touch-ups", "oversprays", etc., not only on eBay, but in other places. Some with supposed 'dealers' too. Lesson is "Buyer Beware", and ask lots of questions! Fred Too true! A refin is much more difficult to pass off as original in a sunburst finish than a natural finish or a solid color. This may be one reason so many old Martins have been refinished, to the dismay of collectors. I have seen some so cleverly done that they are not easy to identify. What you really look for (absent obvious clues) are wear and fading patterns that are inconsistent over the guitar. Overspray can be a bit harder to identify visually if it is well done. I have no first-hand experience with using black light for this purpose, so I'm not sure how reliable or easy to interpret that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Can a guitar that has been oversprayed impact tone for the worse, Im guessing not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Can a guitar that has been oversprayed impact tone for the worse, Im guessing not ? Probably not, unless it is seriously overdone, which may well be the case. It's probably safe to say it won't make it any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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