Counterfiet PTC PT2399 Echo Chip

[bluesguitar65]

Got these from eBay in the mail today. Seller's description was for a "PTC (Princeton Technology)" PT2399 chip and this is what was sent to me. It was $8.95 for 20. Notice the physical differences in the photo between the "DTC" and the "PTC" branded PT2399? This legit or fake?

 

 

 

 

[bluesguitar65]

Well, I got a reply from the actual Manufacture of these PT2399 and they have infact confirmed that the "DTC" branded PT2399 I purchased from eBay were indeed "COUNTERFEITS", FAKES!

 

Thanks for your information. Princeton only put "PTC" marking on our chips and we knew there are many fake products from China. Should you interested in any of our products, please contact our official agent.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Cheryl Kuo/ 郭素梅

Senior Customer Service Specialist/ 資深專員

Princeton Technology Corp./ 普誠科技股份有限公司

Tel: +886-2-2916-2151 ext. 22437

Fax: +886-2-2917-4598

http://www.princeton.com.tw

[Jon S.]

Yeah. I never buy chips from Ebay(anymore). I bought a bulk of BBD chips a few years back for $20 thinking I got a steal. They were fakes.

[bluesguitar65]

Yeah. I never buy chips from Ebay(anymore). I bought a bulk of BBD chips a few years back for $20 thinking I got a steal. They were fakes.

Yup! Well, lesson learned, but at lest the seller was very helpful about it and they offered a full refund and would pay the return shipping cost.

[Dub-T-123]

The BBD chips are pretty frequently faked because the cool out of production ones are really expensive. These are cheap enough that I don't see the point in faking them.

 

I was thinking it was just another manufacturer and not a fake? If it sounds the same I don't see the problem.

 

I just got 20 of these same "DTC" chips so I'll have to check out how they sound for myself

[slavestate]

The BBD chips are pretty frequently faked because the cool out of production ones are really expensive. These are cheap enough that I don't see the point in faking them.

 

I was thinking it was just another manufacturer and not a fake? If it sounds the same I don't see the problem.

 

I just got 20 of these same "DTC" chips so I'll have to check out how they sound for myself

 

I was thinking the same thing in that how cheap these are to make why bother trying to counterfeit them?

 

There was a pretty interesting

circulating recently (I'm not too sure if it was on this board or not) about the not so difference between OP amp chips and how inexpensive it is to produce them all. It was interesting too that some of these "hard" to find and "out of print" chips were actually being produced continually and never actually went out of production.

 

I'm eager to know if you hear a difference between the two.

[stein]

I was thinking it was just another manufacturer and not a fake?

That's pretty much the same thing, isn't it?

 

There are tons of compatible chips made by all kinds of manufactuers, and it isn't like one particular brand thought theirs were going to be sought after as "the real deal"

 

I agree, try them out and see if you can tell a difference, and how much difference.

[Dub-T-123]

That's pretty much the same thing, isn't it?

No

 

For example, you can get a 12AX7 or EL84 from various manufacturers. That doesn't mean it's a fake. Same with transistors and most components.

 

I've bought tons of PT2399s that aren't marked PTC. They're still PT2399s that do the same thing.

[bluesguitar65]

I've searched "DTC" pt2399 online and had no hits or any direct info on "DTC". I went to the main source and they claim that the DTC PT2399 was indeed a counterfeit according to the email. BTW...Princeton Technology (PTC) were nice enough to send me some free samples of the "genuine" PTC PT2399 direct from the Princeton Technology factory. I will soon post a comparison and a video sampling any audio quailty differences. There has been many complaints about this particular delay chip about execssive noise and perhaps this is the cause of it, using counterfeit pt2399. Stay tune.

[stein]

I'm interested in the results.

 

I can see a case where there can be "fakes" from China, as China seems to have a lot of companies that make stuff with no regard for licences or rights. Black market stuff.

 

That might be a whole different thing than just the same spec component made by someone else. I can see where they would be lacking in quality, as they would be making cheap basically to cash in, and aren't really answering to any quality considerations.

 

But also, technology often changes pretty quick with these things, and often an "improved" version replaces an older one, which may have similar specs, but is constructed differently. Or, maybe a cheaper way to build it. I guess it depends on what it is and what it is meant for. And being as guitar gear hounds are a specail breed, sometimes we assume that what came in the "origonal" pedal is in fact the origonal maker of the chip, OR the better one, or both.

 

I wouldn't assume that it is the case, unless someone took the time to compare. I see lots of room for discovery, for those incline.

[bluesguitar65]

I'm interested in the results.

 

I can see a case where there can be "fakes" from China, as China seems to have a lot of companies that make stuff with no regard for licences or rights. Black market stuff.

 

That might be a whole different thing than just the same spec component made by someone else. I can see where they would be lacking in quality, as they would be making cheap basically to cash in, and aren't really answering to any quality considerations.

 

But also, technology often changes pretty quick with these things, and often an "improved" version replaces an older one, which may have similar specs, but is constructed differently. Or, maybe a cheaper way to build it. I guess it depends on what it is and what it is meant for. And being as guitar gear hounds are a specail breed, sometimes we assume that what came in the "origonal" pedal is in fact the origonal maker of the chip, OR the better one, or both.

 

I wouldn't assume that it is the case, unless someone took the time to compare. I see lots of room for discovery, for those incline.

From the photos I posted, you can clearly see structural differences. Take a closer look at the photo showing the row of pins, notice the PTC brand is shaped differently. Also, the PTC has numerous indentations on the top and bottom of the chip compared to the DTC branded one.

 

I have tested each one of the DTC chips and they sound very similar to the PTC chip. So I'm confused here, but the main manufacturer of this PT2399, Princeton Technology (PTC) claims that these DTC branded chips are counterfeits.

[daveinspain]

Well it's like a well made counterfeit guitar might sound and play well. There may be some cosmetic differences but it's still a functioning guitar. Some people might be ok with a counterfeit guitar or counterfeit Armani sunglasses or counterfeit Gucci cloths or Rolex watch... I wouldn't buy a counterfeit anything because one day , sooner or later, someone call you out on it and there goes your reputation...

 

That being said I don't think anyone will look inside your clone pedals and call you out on fake chips...

[Strav]

Well that is not cool.

[Dub-T-123]

I did a bit or research and it looks like these are from a manufacturer called "Data Technology Corporation".

 

I still say that these aren't counterfeit but just from a manufacturer other than Peterson. If you've ever bought PT2399s from mammoth they're not marked with the Peterson brand. Peterson is not the only maker of this IC.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I did a bit or research and it looks like these are from a manufacturer called "Data Technology Corporation".

 

I still say that these aren't counterfeit but just from a manufacturer other than Peterson. If you've ever bought PT2399s from mammoth they're not marked with the Peterson brand. Peterson is not the only maker of this IC.

 

These have a manufacturers logo on them but aren't made by said manufacturer and aren't licensed. That's a counterfeit. Clones without unauthorized use of a company name or logo are not counterfeits but clones. I have to say, I suspect these might well be better made than the "real thing", I'll be interested to hear the outcome of sound tests.

 

Edit: hands up, think I'm wrong. On closer inspection the logos are close but not the same. I'm with Dub, not counterfeits but a dubious use of a very similar logo that imo is clearly meant to/likely to be mistaken, but block capitals in an oval is too simple to be considered a trademark I suspect.

[Dub-T-123]

Been super busy lately so I haven't been building much, but I just made a delay with one of these chips and it sounds perfect. Just like a PT2399 should.

 

The PT2399 I had in it (which was definitely not counterfeit) was noisy and distorted so I swapped it for one of these and it's sounding just like it should. Hopefully most of the ones I got are usable like this one is.

 

So, anyways, the chips are legit.