PuerAeternus Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My es-335's neck relief literally seemed to change like every week so I was constantly adjusting it with a 5/16 truss rod tool i bought.... Now for some weird reason it seems like the tool is a little bit too big? I can't apply any force at all to the nut, when i turn it the tool just moves around the nut doing nothing at all. This is not the same as a stuck truss rod not moving even though im applying force, I can't even apply any force- i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuerAeternus Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 My es-335's neck relief literally seemed to change like every week so I was constantly adjusting it with a 5/16" truss rod tool i bought.... Now for some weird reason it seems like the tool is a little bit too big? I can't apply any force at all to the nut, when i turn it the tool just moves around the nut doing nothing at all. This is not the same as the stuck truss rod not moving even though im applying force, I can't even apply any force the thing is the 5/16 tool used to work fine... I tried my 1/4" and it was too small... should i get a 7 mm one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnappi Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My es-335's neck relief literally seemed to change like every week so I was constantly adjusting it with a 5/16 truss rod tool i bought.... Now for some weird reason it seems like the tool is a little bit too big? I can't apply any force at all to the nut, when i turn it the tool just moves around the nut doing nothing at all. This is not the same as a stuck truss rod not moving even though im applying force, I can't even apply any force- i Sounds weird on a few counts. 1. Having to constantly adjust it is not normal. 2. Now the tool just spins? Could it be possible that the truss rod nut either has the corners totally rounded or it broke off and you ARE turning the nut but it's just spinning in the air? The latter can be checked by putting a spot of white or red nail polish on the rod nut, and try turning the nut once and see if the nail polish spot moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl51 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I am thinking that the rod is broken as (1) you in no way should have been having to adjust a truss rod constantly and (2) I have never heard of anyone having to move to a different truss rod sized wrench for a Gibson truss-rod. STOP and take the guitar to a qualified repair guy before you really mess the neck up........jim at Tinker AFB Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvar Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I am thinking that the rod is broken as (1) you in no way should have been having to adjust a truss rod constantly and (2) I have never heard of anyone having to move to a different truss rod sized wrench for a Gibson truss-rod. STOP and take the guitar to a qualified repair guy before you really mess the neck up........jim at Tinker AFB Oklahoma City, Oklahoma I'm thinking I agree with you- most folks only have to make truss rod adjustments once or twice a year, depending on climate conditions- and even then, usually a 1/4-1/2 turn is all thats required for adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnappi Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I'm thinking I agree with you- most folks only have to make truss rod adjustments once or twice a year, depending on climate conditions- and even then, usually a 1/4-1/2 turn is all thats required for adjustment. Holy crap! I only (sometimes) adjust mine if I change string gauge, but then again we don't get radical climate changes in South Florida so that may be why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuerAeternus Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well I know its definitely not broken i think what one guy said about the corners being completely rounded off might make sense.... what should i do in that case also I know its weird to adjust it a lot but for some reason my es-335 (ive had it for 2 years) always seems to unstraighten its neck after like a period of 2 weeks.... i always try to get the relief so that when i press down the Low E string at the first and last fret, there is a super tiny gap between the 12th fret and the string, this way i can get the action super low with easier bends as well (my action preferences are a little bit of buzzing with open chords and the first few frets is ok if overall action everywhere is easier) but lo and behold before after i made the adjustment a week later the action would slowly creep up on me and i would check the string gap at the 12th fret and it now is like a gap the size of a 1.0 mm dunlop pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnappi Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well I know its definitely not broken i think what one guy said about the corners being completely rounded off might make sense.... what should i do in that case also I know its weird to adjust it a lot but for some reason my es-335 (ive had it for 2 years) always seems to unstraighten its neck after like a period of 2 weeks.... i always try to get the relief so that when i press down the Low E string at the first and last fret, there is a super tiny gap between the 12th fret and the string, this way i can get the action super low with easier bends as well (my action preferences are a little bit of buzzing with open chords and the first few frets is ok if overall action everywhere is easier) but lo and behold before after i made the adjustment a week later the action would slowly creep up on me and i would check the string gap at the 12th fret and it now is like a gap the size of a 1.0 mm dunlop pick If you don't know whether or not the corners are rounded how do you know it's not broken? It's not weird to adjust it a lot, it's wrong. If the adjustment is changing, it's DEFINITELY having a problem. Rounded corners would be easy to see, get a magnifying glass, a flashlight and look at em. Another unlikely issue you "might" have is that continually adjusting it may have totally or partially stripped either the male or female threads on the rod / nut and you're seeing the threads slip after tension on the neck changes like bending a heavy string. That's just conjecture, but in either case you will be best served by stopping what you're doing and accept the neck as it is, get another guitar, or bring it to a Luthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My es-335's neck relief literally seemed to change like every week so I was constantly adjusting it with a 5/16 truss rod tool i bought.... Now for some weird reason it seems like the tool is a little bit too big? I can't apply any force at all to the nut, when i turn it the tool just moves around the nut doing nothing at all. This is not the same as a stuck truss rod not moving even though im applying force, I can't even apply any force- i If you are using the little tool that Gibson thoughtfully includes in the case pocket: My link my advice to you is STOP! As anything but an emergency device, this suffers from a number of faults; depending on how the truss-rod cavity has been cut the socket may too short to seat properly, the walls of the socket may be too thick and in any case the short handle sticking out of the side does not provide proper leverage and pushes the socket off-center, not to mention puncturing your hand with the cross-tip end. This tool can easily round off the corners of the nut and is unpleasant to use. I keep one in my gig bag and luckily have felt the need to use it just once in many years When I was last in the Gibson factory they were using a long, T-handle socket wrench. I have one of these and it's an excellent tool, but back when I collected vintage guitars I came across many where the cavity was so tight that even this tool was a problem to use. My solution was to start with a 5/16" thin- wall, deep socket, machine off about half the wall thickness, and drive it with a 4"-long 1/4" ratchet. This tool works well for me, but it's likely too risky for most people, so I'd recommend the T-handle style: My link If you have rounded off the truss-rod nut it's probably easy to fix. Completely loosen the string tension, remove the nut and replace it with a new one. The hard part will be getting it out of there. If you have just the Gibson tool you're going to have trouble getting leverage on it, but what you need to do is press the socket down as hard as reasonable while rotating it. It's also possible to back it out with long-nose pliers, but easy to do some guitar damage this way, so be careful. I've never had one that was so badly damaged that I couldn't get it out with my socket wrench tool and I suspect that the T-handle would have worked too, but I've never tried doing this with the Gibson tool. One thing I would do before installing the new nut is to put a couple of thin, brass shim washers on the rod. This will provide a better bearing surface and also give you more tightening force before the nut bottoms out on the threads. I buy them at the hardware store. If it turns out that somehow you have stripped the rod, don't panic (yet)--it may be possible to re-thread the rod. If it's broken that's likely a different story. I agree with the other replies that you shouldn't need to adjust the rod very often. I set my guitars up with a very low action, so critical adjustment is a must for me. When I lived in the Northeast I usually did it twice a year (fall & spring), when I lived in the tropics almost never, and now in the desert just occasionally. Good luck with it! Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuerAeternus Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 If you are using the little tool that Gibson thoughtfully includes in the case pocket: My link my advice to you is STOP! As anything but an emergency device, this suffers from a number of faults; depending on how the truss-rod cavity has been cut the socket may too short to seat properly, the walls of the socket may be too thick and in any case the short handle sticking out of the side does not provide proper leverage and pushes the socket off-center, not to mention puncturing your hand with the cross-tip end. This tool can easily round off the corners of the nut and is unpleasant to use. I keep one in my gig bag and luckily have felt the need to use it just once in many years When I was last in the Gibson factory they were using a long, T-handle socket wrench. I have one of these and it's an excellent tool, but back when I collected vintage guitars I came across many where the cavity was so tight that even this tool was a problem to use. My solution was to start with a 5/16" thin- wall, deep socket, machine off about half the wall thickness, and drive it with a 4"-long 1/4" ratchet. This tool works well for me, but it's likely too risky for most people, so I'd recommend the T-handle style: My link If you have rounded off the truss-rod nut it's probably easy to fix. Completely loosen the string tension, remove the nut and replace it with a new one. The hard part will be getting it out of there. If you have just the Gibson tool you're going to have trouble getting leverage on it, but what you need to do is press the socket down as hard as reasonable while rotating it. It's also possible to back it out with long-nose pliers, but easy to do some guitar damage this way, so be careful. I've never had one that was so badly damaged that I couldn't get it out with my socket wrench tool and I suspect that the T-handle would have worked too, but I've never tried doing this with the Gibson tool. One thing I would do before installing the new nut is to put a couple of thin, brass shim washers on the rod. This will provide a better bearing surface and also give you more tightening force before the nut bottoms out on the threads. I buy them at the hardware store. If it turns out that somehow you have stripped the rod, don't panic (yet)--it may be possible to re-thread the rod. If it's broken that's likely a different story. I agree with the other replies that you shouldn't need to adjust the rod very often. I set my guitars up with a very low action, so critical adjustment is a must for me. When I lived in the Northeast I usually did it twice a year (fall & spring), when I lived in the tropics almost never, and now in the desert just occasionally. Good luck with it! Danny W. what you said about the vintage guitars where you had to do some tinkerinng with your 5/16 tool--- do you think i could get the same effect buy just using a 7 mm one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 My es-335's neck relief literally seemed to change like every week so I was constantly adjusting it with a 5/16 truss rod tool i bought.... Now for some weird reason it seems like the tool is a little bit too big? I can't apply any force at all to the nut, when i turn it the tool just moves around the nut doing nothing at all. This is not the same as a stuck truss rod not moving even though im applying force, I can't even apply any force- i A neck needs time to stabilize after a truss rod adjustment and yes, it takes about a week or two before it stabilizes. If it "changes" every week, and you are continually "correcting" it, it is never going to stabilize because the stress forces keep changing before it has a chance to. I have a feeling this guy is going to end up messing up the neck of his ES-335. Oh well, the first broken truss rod leads to the first big lesson you learn: LEAVE THE TRUSS ROD ALONE. *The first thing I do when I get a new guitar is to throw that damn truss rod tool http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.guitar-parts.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/1600c.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.guitar-parts.com/catalog/truss-rod-tool-gibson-0&h=376&w=600&sz=17&tbnid=7WBvCk1YCk3EfM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__NsKK83xDpeRfgafneyMRgStwVvQ=&docid=pmRSoWQg9w9m6M&sa=X&ei=RSKoUOTMA4nMigKSuYHwCg&ved=0CH0Q9QEwBg&dur=2945 away. I am not alone in thinking this because all of the Gibsons that I bought used didn't come with a truss rod tool in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 what you said about the vintage guitars where you had to do some tinkerinng with your 5/16 tool--- do you think i could get the same effect buy just using a 7 mm one What you've been doing to this point is not well advised. It seems predictably reasonable to assume that more serious damage may occur if you continue to tinker. I would highly recommend taking the guitar to a qualified repair person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuerAeternus Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Ok I really don't think the rod is broken because I looked up symptoms of a broken truss rod and it says if its broken its pretty obvious, the truss rod will turn really easily and nothing will happen thats not the case here. heres a pic of the truss rod if anyone can help me out--- is there anything wrong with it by looking at it and also... why is it my es-335 wouldn't stabilize? did i just get a dud? it usually does not take a week--- any truss rod adjustment i made before i could immediatly tell the difference, the action would be lower and bends would be easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 what you said about the vintage guitars where you had to do some tinkerinng with your 5/16 tool--- do you think i could get the same effect buy just using a 7 mm one I never think it's advisable to use a metric tool for imperial hardware, but if it fits the nut you have, try it--carefully. Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 what you said about the vintage guitars where you had to do some tinkerinng with your 5/16 tool--- do you think i could get the same effect buy just using a 7 mm one 7mm is a lot smaller than the standard 5/16" truss rod nut, which is very closer to 8mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuerAeternus Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 7mm is a lot smaller than the standard 5/16" truss rod nut, which is very closer to 8mm. yeah well my 5/16 rod seems to be too big, i tried a 1/4 inch and it was too small 7 mm might just be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Rayba Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 From what I have read, when you make a truss rod adjustment, you hold the 6th string down a the 1st fret, and the fret where it joins the body (not at the last fret) to get a perfect straight edge. There should be a small gap around the 5-6-7 frets, not the 12th as you have posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR9 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 and also... why is it my es-335 wouldn't stabilize? did i just get a dud? it usually does not take a week--- any truss rod adjustment i made before i could immediatly tell the difference, the action would be lower and bends would be easier Yes you should see an immediate change when you do the adjustment, but that is not going to be the final result when the neck settles. It takes a week or 2 for the neck to settle into the change but you are not letting it get to that point. Changing the truss rod with climate or with different gauge strings are normal. Adjusting every week never lets the neck settle. You are making an adjustment and then before it completely settles you are adjusting the adjustment. Sounds like the nut has been rounded. A new one is a very easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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